automatico

"15 has a wok and little stumps, 27 much better.." I believe you made the right choice. The '15 date' watch is not too hot imho. It reminds me of the old D320840 (16610) aka 'fake noobmariner' that I mentioned in another post a few days ago. The main difference I can see between the '15 date' watch and the D320840 is the D320 had better crown guards.

"I do know that if you change the crown, you will most likely have to change the case tube." "There are rep crowns out there which are good copies, but I don't know where you find them these days." I have changed out quite a few replica crowns and tubes over the years and you are right...the case tube has to match the crown because most of the older crowns are not oem spec. One type that shows up a lot is the steel capped crown with a brass inner body. They may or may not have the O ring on the outside of the case tube but they must have the matching case tube. Afaik none of them are oem spec but they are reliable. Water resistance can be hit or miss depending on how good the case tube to case sealing is along with the crown gaskets. Some watches have essentially the same tube/crown combo but with solid steel crowns. Another good crown/case tube combo is the set that came in the original F520117 'noobmariners'. They are not oem spec (the crown threads are different) but they are solid steel (no cap) and reliable. Some of the old D320840 'fake noob' cases have good crown/tube sets although they are not the same as the F520117 'genuine noob' parts. Both are hard to find now though. The D320840 'fake noob' cases look a lot like the F520117 'genuine noob' cases and many were sold as 'noobmariners' but they had 'wokky' reflectors (rehaut) and used a different crystal setup. Some of the case tubes in any of these cases can be a real pain to remove without damaging them. I usually remove the movement and gaskets, put a metal rod through the inside of the case tube and heat the rod to loosen things up first. Heating the rod will heat the tube enough to make the glue/sealant turn loose without damage to crystal gaskets etc...if you are careful. "TC used to have them, but he's gone." His crowns and tubes were pretty good and were oem spec. I have a few TC crowns on project watches with ST case tubes. Only trouble I have had with TC crowns is the tension spring in the 'telescopic clutch' sometimes becomes weak. "I used to buy used gen crowns for $30-40 and then install a wholesaleoutlet990 case tube." The best fix imho.

Very nice project! I admire your perseverance.

"...for some reasons I thought it was Saturday today." That's a new one. I might be fuzzy on the year but I always know what day it is. "...he got our guys to the tune of over 20 K in watches." Hope this dickweed gets his in the end. The hind end.

"So it is a fantasy reference number?" As far as I know. If you type '70216 rolex bracelet' in a search you will get all kinds of hits but no genuine bracelets with that number on it.

Here is the scoop: https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=252199 I have a few of these bracelets from 12 or 15 years back and they have sheet metal 'sel' type end links and solid mid links with screws. I use them with an unsigned clasp on project watches with no name Raffles dials. They are Ok for around $35 or $40 new signed, unsigned around $20. The screws tend to be hard to run in and out, I usually have to heat them over a candle flame to loosen the screws.

"I have both Yuki 5513 case and Phong 6538. IMHO they are both great. Phong however is double the price of Yuki." I have Yuki 5512 and 5513 cases and they are super nice too. This being an old thread, here are a few prices: YUKI CASES 8-2018 6542 GMT CASE/DIAL/HANDS...$1000 5510 CASE/DIAL/HANDS...$1000 1675 GMT CASE ONLY...$650 1665 SD DRSD CASE BACK OR 1665 SD REG. CB...$750 5512/13...$650 IF AVAILABLE TUDOR 9411...$650 I looked today and they have changed the offerings. The 6542 and two 1665 models are still available, same prices.

"Would the T SWISS MADE T also indicate that the case does not have the lugs drilled through?' Here is some info: https://watchchest.com/learn/rolex-history-descriptions/history-datejust.html From Rolex Passion Report: 1998- 2000, LumiNova was invented in 1993 and patented in 1995; Nemoto & Co. Ltd. was contracted in 1998 to provide LumiNova to Switzerland. 2000 – 2008, Super Luminova, a improved version of Luminova, a material that has the same properties as tritium but is not radioactive. 2008 – now, Chroma Light, the new blue-ish colored Super Luminova that has been in use since Rolex patented it.

The ST bracelets are very high quality but they also have a high price. With gold around $1200 troz, prices are going to be high even on lighter models from any seller. I was looking for a submariner style gold case a while back but they have gone from $1200 in the mid 1990s to $4k+ today, putting me out of the game. The problem with gold cases and bracelets is they usually sell new for 2 to 4 times what the gold is worth and this blows the prices up because of today's high gold prices. When you go to sell one the buyer wants to know how much it weighs and tries to pay scrap price or less.

"Salvatore, take a close-up pic of the Rolex writing in the rehaut." It's an older model with numbers on the case between the lugs as shown in one of the pictures above.

"Not much activity on this forum..." Most of us are busy advising world leaders. Or watching porn. "Of course you can't add a 3135 date disc on a 2824?" "1) Construction is VERY different." "2) ETA is about 3mm closer to the dial age." All True. Here is why: When someone says a 3135 date wheel will fit an Eta they usually mean they both are made to turn in the same direction. Genuine 15xx and 3035 rlx dw turn the wrong way to be used on an Eta. A 3135 dw is a whole lot different from an Eta 28xx dw as far as being a direct swap. A genuine spec 3135 dw can be used as an overlay on a 2836 but you will probably need to trim the teeth inside the 3135 dw. There is not as much room on a 2824 between the top plate and dial as on a 2836 and this is why most watches that come with a dwo use a 2836. The date also flips immediately on a 2836 same as on a genuine watch. Another thing is the 2836 uses a taller canon pinion, hour wheel, and center sweep second post than a 2824 and this gives more room between the dial and hands. As for 3135 clones, they are another animal all together compared to any Eta. I have never worked on a 3135 clone. "But maybe it's better try and find a Noob v6 DWO or TC v4 DWO." Very good advice.

"Looks good to me." Agree. "The 3130 is the upgraded movement- hence the M behind the model number." Definitely upgraded. The cal 3000 was made out of ground up chicken livers, gizzards, beaks, and rooster dix.

"...I just paid $3k for my 1570 GMT movement in mint condition." Not bad in today's market. Imagine paying nearly half that much for a hunk of rust and a ratty dial.

I am out of my bailiwick here as most of my experience is with the rlx brand but if the changes are basically cosmetic, the question that comes to mind is...do the movement modifications (cover plates etc) have any effect on the basic movement? Since the troubles experienced with most A7750 movements are because of no oil on critical parts, dirt, rough handling etc, my guess is it would be basically the same watch as before as long as the movement is Ok mechanically to start with. The 'suicide @ 6' models are in another category and should not be considered in the equation. Having an A7750 with standard 6-9-12 sub dials is one big advantage imho. One other problem with a lot of replicas is crown/case tube trouble but it usually shows up on specific models. I have always liked Heuer/Tag Heuer watches but the only T-H watches I have now are quartz time and date dive models. I have owned a few mechanicals in the past...Pasadena, Camaro, Regatta etc...all long gone. Sold them too soon.

Winning bid US $1,381.99 (!!) Proof that there is one born every minute.

"Looks pretty wasted, not worth it?" "I agree- that baby is beyond hope." Yep. The calendar spacer, 24 hour wheel, 12 hour wheel, calendar wheel, and maybe a couple other parts are about all of the special GMT parts that might be usable. The balance wheel would be Ok and the hairspring looks good from what you can see, but it is really hard to tell about the hs. It probably needs a balance staff and the round steel bumpers in the calendar spacer will be rusty. Fifty USD would be my limit. I have a 3035 that looked the same way and the only parts that were good enough to use were the balance complete, hour wheel, and a few other assorted parts. The rust stains would not come off the plates, they faded a little in an ultrasonic cleaner but still look bad. The reversers were shot along with all the calendar parts. Every screw except 2 or 3 were rusted solid. The watch was stored with the balance out of the water and that's all that saved it. Evidently the owner just laid it down and forgot about it after it drowned. It's at $237.50 with a day and a half to go.

"A proper 13mm length with the right size and shape lume plot is impossible to find. People want $1000 for gen ones in crummy condition." Check out this bargain: https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/vintagerolexforum/fs-1016-explorer-dial-hands-r-l-serial-t237752.html#p539017 "...you will get Serif dials and longer handsets as well as Sans Serif dials with longer or shorter hands… wtf?!" The best answer is probably 'wtf'. One good thing about replicas is you have a lot of leeway with details. Back when today's popular vintage watches were in circulation, I did not pay much attention to them, no one did. Now the details are very important and '100% original' examples may not be 100% original because so much time has passed and most have had a few different owners. I have three '100% original' vintage rlx watches. How do I know they are 100% original? 1...I bought them brand new from an AD. 2...They have never been worked on. 3...They have always been in my possession.

GMT Parts! Sorta. The good: 1...It was bought new. 2...Complete with dial! 3...One owner (one at a time). The bad: 1...May need service. 2...Date does not line up. 3...Might need a rotor axle. The Ugly: eBay item number: 192737148249

The minute hand is the one that always draws my attention. Out of spec hour hands are not as easy to spot unless they are way too short or long and second hands are Ok with me as long as they are close to the minute marks. Sweep second hands can be shortened if they are too long but there are not many too long ss rlx hands around. In 2005 or 2006 I ordered some genuine 5513 and 1016 hands, they (RSC Dallas) sent the same hands for both. Mistake or not? I'll never know. I went to Bing search and looked at 1016 watches and most of the minute hands reach one third to one half way across the minute marks (not the 5 minute markers). There are exceptions of course with some hands being quite a bit shorter. Short hands: http://rolexpassionmarket.com/watches/rolex-l-series-explorer-ref-1016/ https://wannabuyawatch.com/product/rolex-explorer-1-ref-1016-gilt-dial-circa-1966/

"Make sure you know how to handle those KIF Duoshock springs on the escape wheel." For sure! They are a pia the first few times. Here are the DUOFIX instructions from an official rolex manual. My comments are in ( ). (Very!) Important: Do not attempt to disengage the arms of the key when dismounting the DUOFIX. 1... To disassemble the DUOFIX, use a sharp pointed tool in the notch beside the ear and disengage the ear from the block by a backwards movement. (The 'ear' is the tab that locks the shock spring in the setting. "Block' = jewel setting. The 'ear' is at the outer center of the rounded 'wishbone' shaped spring. The 'ear' holds the shock spring in the setting by fitting into a groove in the jewel setting.) 2... Engage the point of the tool into the central notch opposite the ear and slide the key outwards to release the cap jewel. (After you unlock the 'ear' from the groove in the setting, gently push the wishbone spring away from where the 'ear' locks into the groove in the setting to release it. The 'wishbone' spring always stays in the shock setting, it just moves out of the way enough to r/r the jewels.) 3... The cap jewel can be removed and replaced with tweezers. cap jewel and hole jewel are easily cleaned. (I use Rodico to remove the jewels so they do not fly out of tweezers. After the cap and hole jewels are cleaned and oiled they will stick together and be fairly easy to put back in the setting using tweezers. Be sure to clean all Rodico residue off of jewels.) 4... To reassemble, engage the tool point into the notch beside the ear and push the key slightly inwards under the perimeter of the block. 5... Bring the key to its locking position by pushing at the central notch. The ear will then slide under into the groove in the block and the two shoulders will touch the block wall. (Make sure the 'shoulders' of the 'wishbone' spring are fully seated and touch the block/jewel setting wall so it will not come out.) Here is a very good video on cleaning and oiling a rolex movement. It is a 3075 GMT but the basics are the same as a 15xx. In part 3, go to the 8 minute spot and watch how to oil balance jewels...a very important part of service. Watch all three parts a time or two to see how proper service procedure is done. Tip: Not if but when you screw up oiling the cap jewel (too much oil, the hole jewel lands off to one side and smears the oil drop when putting them together, the hole and cap jewel fall apart after oiling etc, etc), you need to clean the jewels, let them dry, and oil them again. After a few dozen screwups you will get a lot better at it. Part 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydJ-riJ7sjo Part 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHOx0M7ARvQ Part 3: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYJ9KkFK9wE

https://www.watchrepairtalk.com/topic/6094-servicing-my-rolex-5513-calibre-1520/

"I recall that the Longines 18k solid gold cases were amongst the best and heaviest of all other gold watches made by other Swiss companies that passed my hands and also very under rated!! I always had a soft spot for Longines!! Unlike the Rolex presidential case and even Patek Philippe that were almost hollow being just shells." True. In my experience, solid gold Longines and Bulova cases have the most gold of all the brands I am familiar with. Rolex hogs out all the extra gold inside the case, even part way into the lugs, leaving two small 'stands' for casing screws to mount against. A friend who worked in a rolex AD in the 1990s said you had to be very careful buffing gold rolex cases because by the time they had been buffed a few times, they were be getting pretty thin on the sides. Had a Patek 'Golden Ellipse' and it had a good amount of gold in the bracelet but the case was very thin. It had a manual wind cal 23-300 movement and they supposedly have the reputation for being fragile as a baby's breath. I do not know about that because I never wore it. I gave scrap value for it in 1998 ($300 troz) and traded it for a nib rolex 16233 with factory diamond dial. I never wore it either. Now I see the occasional Go Elip going for $10k+. They were a better deal at scrap rate. Ha! Have seen a lot of solid gold modern quartz watches with 'oinion skin' cases selling for $499 or so retail, they only have a few grams of gold in them. You have to pull the crown/stem out and blow the crystal out with an air pump to change the battery. You can mash one flat with a brass hammer in three smacks.

When I got my 'GMT' movement it came with one of these conversions along with most of the genuine GMT parts... https://rwg.cc/topic/141303-cal-1570-gmt-tell-me-if-i-m-wrong/ Many Frankenstein 1655 and 1675 with rlx 1570/1575 movements probably have this quickie conversion and since no one can tell by looking at the watch, they pass until someone takes it apart. Notice the 24 hour wheel in this example has a lot of slack in it between the 24 hour hand tube and the original 12 hour hand tube. Mine did not have this much slack and it has a polished dome on the extended drive pinion on the minute wheel. A conversion like this might work even if not 'correct' providing the GMT center wheel, CP, and hour wheel were used to give enough space between the hands. I have never tried one of the quickie conversions but it might work for a lower $$ project. I have no idea where they come from and evidently some are better than others.

"...pulled out some 20 solid gold watches which were all New old stock with their original tags. These were no ordinary gold watches but Omega Constellations from 1950's, Jaeger LeCoultre and Zeniths. My jaw dropped when he said " you can have them all for just their weight in gold only..." It would have been nice to have a wad of $$ handy at the time! I bought a couple nos 14k gold bracelets and a few watches from a rolex AD/repair guy in the mid 1990s. They had a small rotating counter display with only two generic (unsigned) 14k bracelets left on it. They wanted to get it out of the way so their repair guy weighed them and sold them to me for scrap value. He also sold me a 14k Hamilton Van Horn Electric watch for scrap, around $40 or $50 iirc. Still have it but it does not run. Gold was about $390 per troy ounce then compared to $1200+ now. He also sold me his like new rolex 16013 for $1200...said he only wore it a few times. He had a 6263 Daytona for $1300 ($1600? can't remember) but it was all apart and he sold it to a traveling watch buying outfit before I could get it. I have a few gold watches that I bought years ago but the prices I paid back then were not really bargains then but are bargains now compared to today's gold watch prices. One of my favorites is a 14k Mickey Mouse project watch that I put together using a 14k 1958 Bulova case and modern Disney MM dial with a Seiko/Hattori two hand movement. Total cost was about $125 including a 14k Accutron buckle. Mickey Mouse 'birthday' number 90 was November 18. Mickey Mouse was 'born' November 18, 1928 according to The Walt Disney Company.

Looks Good. A lot of first class parts. I started one of these projects a few years ago, 5 or 7? I've mentioned it a few times. I stopped buying parts at around $3000 and it would have been a LOT more but I got a good deal in a movement and Phong case from a member. Looking back, I guess I did pretty good on the prices. My two dials are not too hot but one or the other will have to do. The hands look Ok but they are aftmkt of some sort (forgot the source). Where I hit The Snag was finding GMT parts, a few were missing. Far as I know I have them all now and hope to finish it this winter. What makes me feel bad (and dumb) is back when these watches and parts were affordable...I was buying tutone QS DJs. You do not see many wearing a TTDJ now. A TT quartz Seiko/Citizen maybe.