alligoat

The V23/72 was developed prior to 1949 and was a smaller version of the V22/71, its predecessor. Here's a Rolex 4500 I ran across this week which I believe dates from the 40's and has a V23 movement in it http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300463597458&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT Look at the picture of the balance and you can see the 23. Antiquorum refers to the early V72's that Rolex used in 6034 and 6036's as Cal. 13 referring to the 13 ligne size of the V72. Considering that Rolex used the V72 up until the late 80's in the 6263/5 (727, of course), the movement had a good run w/ Rolex, some 35 years or so- maybe 40 when you consider the 4500 from the 40's. I noticed the other day in a watch book a late model chrono w/ a Valjoux 72 movt- dating from 2006 or so- obviously it was either NOS, or rebuilt. I'll try to find it again. I'd love to see a chinese copy of the V72, kinda like the ST-19 from seagull- isn't it a copy of the Venus 175?? But as time moves on, I guess we need to make our peace with the asian 7750, since it's the most modern of all the chronos and least expensive.

Very nice grouping M! 'super tonneau shaped', I love it JB! Mine just arrived yesterday- the same 6239 case. I'm wondering about chopping the 'tonneau' off! I don't know how DW manages to copy an obscure feature like the tonneau- 6239's didn't start with this 'bump' and who knows why Rolex put it in there on later cases, and then DW goes out and copies it. Thank goodness my V72 6239 case didn't have this little feature!

Even if it is real, 21 feedback is too low for an experienced seller on the bay, so you're definitely gambling. Do you feel lucky?

The dial looks fine to me. All 1575 movts are marked 1570 on the bridge- the movt is fine. I'm not sure about the case- crown guards look fat and the engravings seem off to me. Crown appears to be the later 24-703 replacement. Could use a bezel and an insert and the top hat crystal appears very tall- but that's because of no bezel, I suppose. Original dial and movement in a replacement case, perhaps.

LOL! There's no doubt that what's driving the Val 72 market is all the people building vintage Daytona frankens- heck, most of them aren't even frankens, a gen crown and crystal doesn't really make a franken, IMO. But I'm guilty also. However, in the process, I've grown to appreciate the v72's and have kept some just to wear as vintage watches.

I wouldn't go higher than $450 myself. You're really only looking at the movement and first order of business is a service- $300 is what I just paid- so at that point you're up to $750 total. But if you need parts, they're scarce and expensive, so that can run up your total quickly. I found out in building my 6238/9 transitional that not all V72's fit in the Pre and vintage Daytona cases. I tried to have two watchmakers fit a Heuer V72 in a DW 6239 case. The second one said it wouldn't work because the Heuer plates were too big- apparently not all of the V72 plates are the same size, various mfrs had different plates for their specific cases. this heuer pre-Carrera is 38mm Luckily, I had a Wittnauer V72 and was able to get the watch built with it. Now, I have another Wakmann, this one's a 730 Valjoux movement- triple date and was looking at it this morning- wonder if it has bigger plates! Haven't measured the case yet, but it looks big- 38-40mm! But I may just get new GP pushers installed and keep it as is. If you're building a vintage Daytona, the old V72's are really the only way to go.

I would think BK could get you a replacement noob crystal. He used to deal in noobs 3-4 years ago and was pretty tight with the noob factory.

Cool watch, T! That service dial and handset make for great nite time reading!

The problem with the V22/71 is that it's a 14 ligne movement. The V23/72 is 13-1/4 ligne. So you can't fit a V22 in anything made for a V23. If you only have the movement and no dial or case, you're pretty much stuck to using it for spare parts or selling it.

Valjoux 22/71. Bicompax is 22, tricompax is 71.

I was looking thru the CousinsUK catalog last week and they have ID's and OD's for the popular Rolex crystals. T-21: ID: 29.5, OD: 30.6 C-118: ID: 29.4, OD: 30.6 C-135: ID: 29.5, OD; 30.7 So you could try either the 118 or the 135. The 135 fits the 16000 models of Datejusts (3035 movt) and 118 fits the 1600 series of DJ's (1575 movt).

Yep, fleabay and maybe even here a year or 6 mos ago. This is definitely an updated case with sapphire crystal and 300m WR. These MKII watches are homage pieces, and excellent quality. His Kingston is a neat updated James Bond Rolex type of watch. He used to sell dials and hands for eta's and Seikos, but I don't see those anymore. For $100 I was able to resurrect this old 6694 rep from Silix with a dial and hands- the SL is very good. This old Silix rep cost me $130 back in 2006 and has a gen eta 2836-2- the good old days! The old rep: The new watch: the nice thing about the LRRP is no one will ever ask you if it's real!

BT, here's a watch you might like- a MKII LRRP with a 2893-2. Needless to say Bill Yao copied the 1655. http://www.mkiiwatches.com/WSWrapper.jsp?mypage=cu01.htm I've seen these watches on the second hand market sell in the $500 range

Nice shot of the end links- gen vs rep- it shows how the gen end link is clearly comprised of three distinct parts. The WM9 looks to be one single piece.

A couple of years ago River had a late model Explorer II for sale with a 2893-2 movement- it would be a 16570 rep with the white EXPII dial and modern sapphire crystal, ran about $450 as I recall. That's the only time I recall seeing a 2893-2 movt in a rep. There's no doubt that the 289x series of eta movements are better than the 2824/2836 series, they're 15 years newer! Some of the WIS on other watch forums say they're just as good as the Rolex 3135 series. Siesta181 makes some excellent points, flyingwedge relates how the Yuki cases of late just aren't measuring up and numerous others have echoed his findings here and on the other rep forums. Good luck on your quest and keep us posted.

Since the Monte Carlo 7032 was only made for two years, 1970-1, the correct crown appears to be a 24-700 twinlock. Around that time it was replaced by the 701 for a very short time and finally the 24-702 which was used up until the early 80's. The current 24-703 crown and case tube came out around '79-80 and was used in the 16800/16660 and retro fitted to 5513/5512/1680/1665's during service. The 703 is still in use today. I have no earthly idea where you can find a 24-7000-0 case tube- few exist at this point. A year or so ago, marsupilami made some 24-7020-0 case tubes for the 24-702-0 triplock Rolex crown. 24-702 crowns are around, I've bought a couple from moelarrycu- Mark Greenberg- on the bay. If Rolex was to service a MC 7032 they'd install a 24-703 crown and tube.

Quick shot of my gens, Lower left to right, 1680 circa 5.8m, matte dial 16800, 7.2m, 16800 gloss dial, 8.1m, 1550 gold shell date w/ rolex gold plate bracelet Top left, 1500 date,'66-68, right, Air King, gold shell, c. '59

Beautiful job, M. And great story, what a fantastic narrative.

Heuer 1964 Re-Edition- it really is a Tag, with the manual wind Lemania 1873, c. late 90's, early 00's. But this next one on the left ain't a Tag- it's a pre-Carrera Heuer- late 50's or early 1960's

Forgive me Father for I have Sinn-ed.

Nice write-up! The only thing I would add is if you look at the engraved 78350, the gen has a flat-top 3, the reps have round top 3's.

BT, I don't understand your aversion to the GMT modified 2836-2- it's a fairly reliable movement. Sure it might need to be serviced, but that goes for any rep movement. You're jumping into uncharted waters w/ no guarantees and the prospect of spending $3K-4K, maybe more on a franken. I think this new 1655 from Josh and the other collectors is a great option at a great price- just swap in some gen parts and away you go http://www.1-pc8838.com/00rlex00101-vintage-explorer-1655-ssss-swiss-2836-p-8964.html

This watch has some good features- the 2846-2 movement, the 93150 bracelet w/580 end pieces, decent bezel insert. Case and bezel are the same as the PT 1665- large lugholes and 2mm springbars. Swap in a better dial if you have to, put on a smaller crown and trim the cg's and it would be a great beater. Maybe they'll fix the dial- then it would only be the crown and cg's which need work. The laser etchings at 6 and 12 suck- keep the bracelet on!

Eurotimez used to sell the MBW silver DW in the correct open 6's and 9's w/ the flat top 3's. Somebody over in the EU can also get them, can't remember who. Mine is WR largely because jmb milled a custom retention ring for me and then I had to sand it on the inside to fit tightly. I used a T-39 domed crystal from GS. I also installed a gen crown and aftermarket tube, but your BK crown should work- just grease the seals. Grease the o-ring on the caseback, tighten it up and hopefully you're good to go. The HE valve is fake, so you don't have to worry about it! The T-39 high dome isn't exactly correct for the GWSD, but I like it. It sure is easy to scratch though- need to order some polywatch! I spent around $400 on my watch and I'm very happy with it. It's not perfect, but it's a cool beater for the price.

First pic is the PT 1665 with the MBW dial and 27 is slighly off position- last third of the month. Second pic on right is original PT1665 w/ original dial- the 5 is perfectly positioned- but the first third of the month is also perfectly positioned with the MBW dial. My 18 looks about like yours- too close to the left of the window!