PeteM

With my toungue firmly in my cheek.... I have found with various automatics including those with similar movements... that the angle of the shake to wind them varies from watch to watch... not significantly but enough to notice... I have always been a keen shaker... I have wondered why this varies especially with the same movements.... so why is this? Is it the weight variation or size of the bearing weight or the positioning or case..or is it just a shake technique?? Any thoughts? Any comments? Any ardent shakers out there? or are you all happy to have it done for you? no inuendo there I am talking about winders!!

I think also in relation to the rude comments/manners etc I wonder if this might just be your expectation not being met.... an expectation based on dealing with retailers generally... When I first starting contacting dealers... I too thought they were rude and curt... but I soon realised from good advice of the senior members here and getting to know the rep scene better that this was because I was dealing with: People from a completely different culture People whose first language isnt anything but a dialect of chinese (Mandarin etc) This is the rep world You rarely get chit chat or a sense of politeness in Western terms... these guys deal with hundreds of enquiries from all sorts... just imagine those who aint members on here but just shopping can you imagine the questions they ask??!! I imagine its bad enough from guys on here... but it must be much much worse from non members... employment isnt like we are used to and nor are the employees, basically they get caught they get some serious [censored].... if one person is sick then things slip, understandbly, and in this case emails become curter because there is a back log... I mean you only need to give it the smallest amount of thought to understand these sorts of issues that can effect us as the consumers... And it happens to all dealers at some time or another... big, small, trusted.... everyone Just going back a few years I can tell you how hard it was to deal with dealers.... no feedback, no updates, no QC pics, no replies, your order arrived when it arived assuming it did!! etc etc as far as the rep world goes we are spoilt here... we have dealers that work with us, resolve issues and provide a comparatively high level of service for this hobby... Guys need to understand that these dealers arent shops that we are used to.... the rep world in GZ is a closed world. More recently China has really clamped down on these factories and dealers... it is very hard to deal under the current climate... hence the non related websites... If you could only see these factories you would understand. One good dealer today could be considered the worst by some next week and those considered bad by some today could be the worlds best next week.... Add to that, us as customers and what we expect rightly or wrongly and you have a very subjective and changing opinion about dealers .. I have experienced near enough every single dealer on here and they have all been good guys to deal with or rather work with to meet my wants and needs..

I think he enjoys going down in more ways than one... like " in my estimation "... :)

I like that Mike..... Must admit I do like a lot of these 'Mash Up' versions.... I find myself finding these versions on Youtube then finding the mixers website... which opens a pandoras box of some great mash ups and remixes... One guy I like at the moment is DJDave, I found a mash up of Prodigy and Limp Bizkit... which led me to his website and found some great Prodigy mash ups. That Zep and Ozzy mix reminds me I have a few records up in the loft of Black Sabbath... one of which I think I need to dig out again... namely 'We sold our souls for Rock'n'Roll' Theres something special in playing the old vinyl versions....

You are not serious mate are you?..... maybe you should give a little more thought to the reasoning behind that in this game.... plenty of dealers do similar... For me mate that comment sums up the credence of your complaint...

Yeah but I am in front

I hope you were the client and not her... as funny as that is on here... letting that out could seriously undermine your business credibility to someone like that...

OMG Freddy... its getting worse.... Now you tell me I am a posing [censored]..... you could have done it more gently than that.... I am off to sulk !!

Its a Uri Geller moment ..... You should go on the stage mate

Thanks guys... I cant edit but there are a few things I forgot to mention... The bezel shape of the rep under the teeth meets the case at an angle in the same way it meets the crystal however the gen bezel only keeps that angle for half the height of the bezel towards the case at that point it goes vertically down to the case. If you order one make sure you have a few spare spring bars as you need one for the deployant. The strap was fitted the wrong way round so you will need to swap it round. It is very very comfy and easily sits under a shirt or such like unlike say an SA etc

For PAMs mate the only ones worth going for are the latest 187s, 217s and 127s... the others I wouldnt bother with unless you want to mod them. Though the 187 really needs those hands sorted ... Also consider all that Smab said..... I just posted a mini review of the RD excalibur which is around 51mm on the wrist... Just make sure you research whichever models you fancy because some are great and some are awful and given the size of them they need to look right on the wrist even if its just for your piece of mind.... There might be some better Uboat flightdecks 50mm coming as the current batch are pretty flawed on the dial....

LOL You are so not getting laid tonight!!! I refuse !! ;)

Its a great rep for sure mate... My only real quibble is the PIG compared to gen when it catches the light etc... but thats an anal view mate.. All rep dials cant match that lustre of the gen in daylight etc..

Oh No! You mean there is cuff & sleeve etiquette?

PAnerai Model @Mike ... I might have an issue mate... all my watches tick but never Tock

There are some great old stories on here ... if you check the search you will find a few I am sure mate.... (PS That aint a dig but a genuine reference to some good stories) I have been called out myself but both times they were gen PAMs.... and one guy calling it was wearing a rep PAM 250...

TBH mate... I thought that as I wrote... I know how much grief this 'situation' caused you and I understand how it could go over your head.... I didnt mean anything by it mate... I just hope a lot of guys take in this thread and hopefully learn to understand the difference between facts and marketing (sales) patter... and more importantly why it is important to get your rep serviced regardless of the model....

Thanks mate... Of course you are right !! I had them in another folder ready to go and forgot them !! Doh! Cant believe I forgot the first rule !! Here are some now

So here is the latest attempt by the factory of a RD Excalibur Chronograph, though the dealer sites refer to this as the ChronoExcel. The description has the usual 'replicated from gen 1:1' etc... Overall the watch is very impressive and well built. It is a very unusual design for its size and has a lot of wrist presence. There have been a few versions of this but this one has the modified A7750 whereas the earlier version had the Copy Venus 75 manual movement. Both are incorrect though the latter is the more gen looking of these. However this one is more accurate overall IMHO... This was bought from Sead at Supermirrors.... it was much cheaper through him than you see on the main dealer sites. As always the transaction was flawless. Here is the gen: Here is the rep: Overall the watch is a good replication especially on the wrist and more importantly given the rarity of the gen and the fact this make isnt very well known it is something that can be worn with ease for those of us with anal like tendencies... The flaws are varied though not strictly obvious... The bezel teeth are slightly oversized in width an depth to the gen however this isnt a big issue on the wrist and the rep bezel actually matches the newer models with single sub dial. The subdials on the gen are flat white to match the inner bezel on the rep the subdials are concentric circles with same colour as the main dial however the inner bezel is correct. That said, on the wrist the pattern of the subdials gives a similar appearance to the gen by the way the light catches it.. The case is pretty close in shape and size, though the brushing of the case is horizontal on the gen and vertical on the rep. The crown and cover are pretty close except the RD is slightly bigger on the rep... but again not something obvious on the wrist. The chrono hands have blued finish. On the rep these are darker than the gen but again its not a big tell as the light on the watch looks different at every angle on the wrist whether gen or rep. The strap and buckle are very good... the rubber is sturdy yet soft to wear... the deployant is comfortable and well made...it also is very close to the gen. The modified A7750 allows the subdials to be correctly spaced to match the gen. The dial itself is pretty good... including the SwissCoHMMade under the 6 Oclock, the lume is good on both the dial and the hands... the lume dots are not correct... the gen has black circles around the lume dots the rep is just lume... but it is very neat and well aplied again a very hard thing to spot or even know about these models. Hands in terms of shape and finish are pretty good and catch the light well to produce a blingy look. The crystal has double AR as does the gen however the gen is stronger but both have a slight blue hue on the white dial. The shape is pretty good though i think the rep is slightly higher but I cant be sure on that. The CB isnt bad and looks pretty accurate but I didnt pay too much attention to that as the movement is so wrong so if it is seen this side its an easy tell. Overall size is a hard one to call... compared to gen.... RD state case is 45.5 and 15.5 thick but it depends where you measure the gen... the case is the same size as the rep give or take 0.5mm what makes this a much bigger watch is the oversized bezel and the crown and guard... this is the same on the gen.. Effectively the watch ends up measuring around 51mm overall from my research the gen measures the same. Overall I like it and think it looks great on the wrist.... its a big looking watch with a classy look of the smaller formal watches you see about..

None you can send to specifically mate.... a few have tried But most of us have a local watchsmith that is rep friendly .... not modders just servicing etc.. All depends where you are ... then maybe someone can point you in the right direction.. If not just check out your local area for small watchsmith shops ... they are about and a few will help... just use your nouse when you first approach..

I guess the humour doesnt cross over mate.... I thought the smileys might have helped.... guess not

Not for me mate... This factory isnt great as far as build and quality go... lume, dial case, CG.... finish ... its just a case of where do you start !!!

Absolutely fantastic thread.... A sticky me thinks ..... very informative... Thanks for taking what was a great deal of time to put this together and post it mate.... PS... Surely when you say ETA you actually mean OEM.....??? ;)

As always mate a great read and very enjoyable and informative Thank you for taking the time to share.... beats seeing all these new PAMs again and again and again blah blah blah...