horologist

what do you mean with non quickset 2836? This movement is a rapid date change. I have used a 1570 movement from a genuine 1500 Date Rolex as a donor in a 18k gold Turnograph and was left with a nice SS case. I got a lower beat eta 2783 to fit inside the 1500 case and worked well. Th beat rate isn't exactly ideal for this vintage but it was a good stem alignment match. It is important that the height of the movement and the stem hole line up with the case. If you are using a genuine 1601 case, this is the 36mm version of the Date 1500 which used the same 1570 movement, so I would be inclined to wager on a 2783 to do the trick in your 1601 case. These movements are very well priced on ebay and in my opinion also very under rated. I actually like it better than both 2824 and 2836 as it is the older school eta. I am not sure if a 2836 movement would fit in a 1601 case even though it is approximately the same thickness as the 2783. Main concern is the stem lining position, but in the even that it would, it would be a higher beat which would not really blend in with the style of watch. It would be very much like trying to fit a sapphire crystal on a 5512 milsub. Good luck!!

Timelord, I don't think it is a silly question at all. Far from it!!!! These sort of questions I would expect to see from elite forums such as this one and more than often I get answers beyond satisfaction here. You won't find the same on VRF or even on rolexforums .You will notice most of those owners of genuine timepieces that look at us here as inferior beings wouldn't have a clue on what is inside their 5 digit price tag piece. I have been searching a link since I read your post which I could not find and perhaps this could answer your question. See Page 8 of 16 in this http://www.darthalex.com/etapdf/ETA_2836-2_mfg.pdf and you will notice from the engineering drawings of the movement that the distance between the top of the dial spacer and the center stem hole is 2.25 mm +/- err (which is consistent with the data on ranft with T= 2.25mm) and this would be without the dial thickness which for arguments sake I will add another 0.45mm making the distance from the dial to the stem hole >= 2.7mm. According to your measurements from the dial seat to the center stem hole, if your measurement of 2.2mm is accurate, this would rule out that the case is for a 2836 and by process of elimination, I would say that it is made for a 2824. I could not find asimilar document for the 2824 engineering drawings but data from Ranft suggests that the distance from dial spacer to center of stem hole is 1.8mm where I would add another 0.45mm = 2.25mm+/-err which would be consistent with your measurement +/- err. I would bet money that your case is for a 2824.If anyone can add further, I am not preaching this to be gospel !!!

So once the day wheel disk is removed can you still use the same plastic spacer for the DWO or would you have to use the one that comes for the eta 2836?

If any proof to how good a quality some of these "replica" pieces are, ii will leave the following images to be judged by the eye of the beholder. This is my first bue sunburst model I purchased in 2004 from Paul known at the time as aspire. All thanks to our fellow emeritus member AUTOMATICO. I Have worn this every day since I purchased it and serviced it only once in 2011 and I have gone swimming and diving with it without a problem. It has had the crown and tube changed to a generic one as I could not get the correct one with the rolex emblem from anywhere!! The next one is one I purchased for my father for his 75th birthday in 2004 from Silix (Jay and Angel) when Paul's website disappeared. My dad loved it so much and it never left his arm. Although he was retired, he was still servicing marine boat engines and this watch took a lot of punishment as you can see from all the scratches and the missing original bracelet. Knowing Dad he also used it under water. I took it for a service a couple of weeks before he died and was always asking me about it. Sadly, he never got to see it where ironically the watchmaker phoned me on the day of his funeral to pick it up. I have left it untouched as a relic since as it has traveled with him to London, Italy and Australia which makes it very priceless to me being more valuable than any genuine. If quality control is a issue here, then all products should come with eternal warranties

Very interesting indeed!!!! I wonder how that was possible as my understanding is that a date wheel overlay only works well on a 2836 because of it's construction. How it is possible for a 2834 to work the same sends my head in a tailspin as datewheel is below day wheel disk making it so much like the eta 2824.

Totally agree!!!!!!!!! i purchased my first replica in 2004 with endless thanks to my fellow forum member Automatico who helped me as a I was very ignorant about this whole new world that has given me many years of pleasure. i bought my first blue sunburst submariner and a couple of Bond omegas for my brother and late father that have been true workhorses having experienced the worst sort of punishment imaginable and are still ticking fine!!!!!! There has been so much controversial discussions over the years where these quiet ticking heroes have been labelled as junk by all sorts, but from my experience they can be the best secret in town!!!! Sure enough the quality control can be an issue, but then again I have purchased new quality licensed products that have also been duds!!! I wished every area of life had a world like this hobby!!!! Keep enjoying to good health!!!!

Good to know!! Will look into this further unless it is what had already been done on mine before they broke off. I will see on ebay and order a sample to practise on a scrap dial. Will be good learning experience and meanwhile if a spare comes my way nothing is lost! Thanks again!!

Yes, but they broke off again after a few weeks!!! My understanding is that the need to be properly soldered with the right equipment as any excess heat from any other soldering methods can stain through the front of the dial. In theory, I am sure it can be achieved, but it can exceed the cost of a replacement as it can be time consuming and most watch smiths I know don't seem to be keen on the idea even when I brought in genuine dials. Thanks for your input!!

Hello to all, I am in the process of replacing my dial on my yacht master as dial feet broke off when watch fell off my wrist many moons ago. It is powered by a eta 2836 as expected for such reps. I have been searching for some years and finally found an identical one on raffles website but it is meant for a DG 2813 - whatever that is?? Now for those familiar with dial changes, would a dial for a DG 2813 fit onto a eta 2836-2 without having to remove dial feet??? If I need to glue new dial, I might as well glue the one I have! Thanks in advance!!

My thoughts also go out to our victims and their loved ones during this horrid times of grief. Life is just so fragile and one never truly knows when that morrning or evening will be our last one with our loved ones. I speak on the anniversary of my father's passing exactly 3 years ago today. One event that I remember at my mother's funeral some 12 years ago when I noticed something out of the ordinary just as we were leaving the sermon and were making our way into the hall next door for the wake, It wasn't about who was there nor how many people had attended as I did not know half of those that had attended nor would I ever recognise them. It then struck me that I saw a gentleman wearing his kippah, another was a Sikhu Indian and also a Syrian man that I knew was a Muslim that seldom came to have his clothes altered at my mother's Seamstress boutique. I found this event very sorrowful but at the same time very peaceful and also quite bliss. At the wake I saw many of them mingle with each other and saw both the Jewish gentleman and the Syrian gentleman speak with 3 other people while holding their cup of tea/coffee. I asked myself why could this not be in every corner of the globe?? When my mother was single, she had been a volunteer at a church orphange having always had a passion for children where she had also been an au paer both in paid and unpaid work.. I recall as a teenager many years ago, where some people I hardly knew would stop to say hello to mum and it was only after I had asked my mother who they were that I knew the correlation, My mother never saw this event but I damm wished she did because she was all about peace and indoctrinated into her children the same. Bros, please lets cherrish and respect one another as when one thinks about how long we live in comparison to how long we remain dead, we can just about say we never lived!!!

Great post and as always a very good topic !!!!! We live in what I call the disposable age, where just about everything that we buy or get today is disposable. We have disposable electrical appliances, disposable razor blades, dispsable cars, disposable jobs and sadly even disposable "friends" from the modern social circles which horrifically even extends to disposable families. Not the sort of world I was accustomed to from my upbringing. True but to some degree also very sad. so why would the modern cheaply £1 wrist watch be any different?? Gone are the days where we would call a TV technician. We still see classic cars from the past such as the Ford thunderbird, MG classic, DB5 Aston Martin, 1957 Chevy to mention just a few. How many cars built today will be classics of tomorrow??? It all comes down to practicality and affordability where to some advantages there are least equal and opposite disadvantages. Newton's law generalized A watch in the past was meant to last and in most cases also passed onto the next generation and beyond. ie- An heirloom !!!. I love this idea, but this would only come with the longevity of a traditionally made old school mechanical wrist watch where 95% of it could still be made by hand for generations to come -provided that an artisan will still exist!!!!!. Not so even with the best quartz watch!!!! incluing the oyster quartz which was not only very ordinary, but also very unsightly with its bulky box stye case. Once the circuit dies, do does the watch!!!! Sadly modern mechanical watches are following same trend with the silicone hairspring etc. where they are similar to a quartz watch without the battery I wear a quartz watch for practicality and when It dies, I get one that comes free as a bonus in my corn flakes packet. Definitely not an heirloom!!!! I also do not like a quartz watch purely on the basis that it is disposable very much like any modern electrical appliance. The ch-ch flip on each second also appeared very weird to me when I first saw it back in the 1970's, but that isn't the real reason why I don't like them. They are a different beast altogether!! A wrist watch has always been a man's item where it was also a status symbol and about the only equivalence of a man's jewelry which could be passed onto future generations. On the other note, I recently was approached by a neighbor that asked me to look at their grandfathers 18k solid gold 1930 rectangular Omega that wasn't working. Upon flipping the back off I was shocked to find a quartz Ronda movement. It was certainly authentic but my mind went in a tailspin. He mentioned that at service time, the watchmaker suggested that if it was to be worn frequently that it would be more pratical to replace the mechanism with an inexpensive quartz module that could always be replaced cheaply and still have the old movement stored away for originality. All it needed was a battery. I then thought what a clever idea!!!!.. The past and present technology blended together. When you think about it , nobody ever sees the module as all you see is the case and dial, very much like what most of us do as replica owners. I love both my replica ( which is almost hand made with all the mods) and my mass produced genuine!!!!

Wow!!! Very interesting thread!, I myself have always wanted to know the answer to this, as I have some eta 2824 movements sitting in my draw and had contemplated on fitting a DWO on one of them to fit in cases made for the 2824- but never got round to-them I also have a sterile sub (which was also branded as an Alpha) with a seagull mechanism ST2130 which has the equivalent eta2824 or Sellita SW200, so you are correct to say that your case will not accommodate an eta 2836, which is a bummer. The question remains?? what would be the solution regarding the spacer modifications needed on the spacer made for the eta2836.?? This is a very clever idea which I had never thought of

I am iabsolutely speechless with the latest thread from our fellow member Bart Cordell on his wonderful artistic skills of producing a decal dial. A question was born after reading that thread and was wondering if anyone knows the size and style of fonts used in any of the dials in submariner models????? Any specialists behind the printing trade or compositors, I would appreciate your feedback!! With THANKS!!!

It is honey to my eyes!!!!! brings a new definition to the word "Art" technical masterpiece!!!!!!!

Even with genuine eta movements, if you see one advertised as new without tags, I would think twice as some can also be recycled and serviced with new parts, but not necessarily virgin new!!! Make sure the seller gives you a return option, if you notice that something is not right when seen in the flesh. From time to time, you can see some on ebay sell for very attractive prices, but unless they are in their silver sealed package, I would always have my doubts unless I can visually see them.. Don't worry, you are not the only one that has been scammed all over, right up from the very top including here. I purchased a couple of pre-owned genuine eta movements that were meant to be freshly serviced, but when they reached me, they were dirty and dry with worn reverser wheels where one even had the winding stem falling out every time I pulled it to set the time.. This is a subtle case where education costs money!!!

I am not defending the Nalgene bottles at all!! I also have my doubts as to whether they are another scam or can function without encroaching the design limitations - I couldn't say!!! The point I was trying to make is exactly like gasebah implied that nothing is 100 % safeproof. It may work today but fail tomorrow! When I reflect on those acrylic crystals that were once used on most divers watches, regardless of how well they were sealed, I often wondered how they could really do their job, when considering that plastic expands and contracts at a different rate to metal and worst still with how easy they were to break with little misalignment pressure. It is always safer to stick with the genuine old pressure testers in contrast to these new fads today

I own both genuine and replica Rolex timepieces, so would that make me a partially genuine and partially fake person depending on what I wear? I have also owned a genuine 18k gold Patek which I often wondered if it was worth the premium I paid for it, apart from a few hundred dollars of gold invested into the case material The movement is nicely decorated etc etc. and so what!!! The case is so foil like with those very thin lugs and case walls that I was even afraid to touch it harder than I would be touching a crumbling cookie. Honestly, it didn't do anything for me!!! More something for a woman to wear at the races with a fancy mushrroom hat and other fancy jewellery I also had the pride and privilege to build my own super Sea dweller with parts sourced from various quality suppliers including a genuine dial, genuine Tissot eta 2836-2 which felt no different to a divers Longines or Steihart. In fact, I was going to get a sterile dial to have my family name decal on it and would have been a genuine quality brand watch unique only to me. It has been just about bullet proof enduring all sorts of punishment that I would never dare do to any of my genuine pieces through. I also have a genuine TAG Heuer WK 1112 with it's cheap quartz eta 955.112 with the TAG stamp on it, OOOHAAAAA!!!!!!!! which originally sold for over £900 with a module that can be replaced for approx £50. I feel like the same joke in "Whos on first base" from the Abbot and Costello riddle Moral to the story, you paid for it and enjoy it without letting small minds judge you!!! fake or real- it tells the time just the same!!!

Let's not delude ourselves!!! The crystal on those vintage sea dwellers was acrylic which of course is plastic and when you put 200 metres of water pressure on it, you would expect it to hold that pressure. I have actually cracked some of those crystals in the old days when I dd not line them up properly while putting them on and it was with little force

Thanks for that!! Yes, I meant - the date disk jumper spring! I understand that the video explains a great method for your factory normal date wheel, but, I could not see how I could do the same with a date wheel which has the DWO already glued onto the datewheel as it would be quite a gamble to access the disk jumper spring with the DWO already on. BTW, I have never seen a datewheel for sale with the DWO. already on it

Don't want to hijack this thread. Are these date wheels available with the DWO already installed??? How would you replace it on the mvt with this set up as there is no room for you to screw under the keyless bridge cover????

I have had the same problem with my genuine 16610 submariner. It would perform differently on different times that I would unscrew the crown to set the day of the month. I was having this exact discussion with rikki on the genuine rolex forum a few years ago. I am sure timelord said that he had his pressure tested at a professional watch outlet. I guess the moral of the story is that nothing is static, regardless of whether it is a gen or a rep, which is why the Swiss no longer use the term "water proof" & have replaced it with water resistant.

The only problem he may experience is the shipping cost and if there is a minimum number that he may need to order. It might be cheaper and perhaps more feasible to buy a genuine crown and tube in the end. I purchased a good second hand genuine in great condition on ebay a couple of years ago for $US70

Yours must have been the one that is modified to accept the substitute battery. I also have one older model that would not accept the modern silver oxide battery and I had one guy who was a specialist in fixing them do the modifications which costed at least 3 times more than the watch was worth. Only went along with the mods as it was a gift my late mother gave to my late father in the early sixties just before they got married!!!

Problem is that most of them need a special type of battery known as he accucell, as those 1960's tuning fork mechanisms were designed for the 344 mercury cells that existed at the time. They ran on 1.33-0.35volts whereas the silver oxide batteries of today run on 1.5volt. Some run fast as a result of substitute batteries unless the movements are modified. There is usually the problem of double indexing. When replacing batteries make sure you don't lose the insulator under one of the battery terminal as you can kill the mechanism. Also the battery goes upside down compared to the mainstream modern quartz movements. The accucell battery is expensive and just a tad smaller as it has a circuit installed on it to accommodate for the movement. Being only 3/4 of the size you would not get the full term of the battery and need to change it sooner than he old mercury batteries. I had a dead 1968 NOS model which I then sold for parts in 2001 as I could not find a substitute quartz replacement due to the STM being at the number 4 position

The case tube just popped out when I tried to unscrew the crown. There were signs of some epoxy used to hold it in as they must have made the hole in the case much bigger than any case tube in existence. Big enough to give birth to another watch.LOL!!! I did not contemplate on getting an oversized case tube made up as I was worried that when trying to rethread the wider than normal case opening , it would be very weak under the gasket seat where the case tube would screw into, especially that gold is soft. I the opted to get a quote from bob Ridley regarding laser welding a piece of gold and then re drilling a new hole to be threaded to accept a genuine case tube. Back in 2011 he gave me the impression that he did not seem too keen. He quoted me US $ 950 and there would be no guarantee of the same water resistance as the original which for me was cold comfort so I let it be. to answer the next part of your question, there is no way of telling without pulling the stem out and unscrewing it from the case which would be beyond anyone's measure of prudence. The risk one takes when buying second hand and even new you would find out something like this many years after the warranty has expired.