freddy333

Looks like a nice relume job, but the Rolex looks like it is off-center. I think the 'L' is too far to the left to be a gen dial. At least that is the first thing I look for to spot a rep.

I think the earliest versions came with Twinlock 700 series crowns, and then they switched to Triplock 701 or 702 crowns and tubes. The final 6263s came with a Triplock 703 crown and 7030 tube. I do not know which of these may be interchangeable. Did you countersink the tube into your case? It looks like you did not do that and that may be why there is so much space between the crown and the case. I think most of the rep tubes are made to fit flush with the side of the case, but the gen tube has a convex bottom to fit into a concave (countersunk) hole in a gen Daytona case. I had to do this (countersink the tube) when I replaced the rep crown and tube for gens on my Daytonas.

Maybe it is the photo or angle of the shot, but your case back engraving looks deeper and smoother (more like the type of engraving work that was typical in the 70's) than the machine engraving on my WM DRSD case back. Someone else posted photos of his DRSD rep several months ago and I think he said that he had used some type of tool to re-engrave the original MBW engraving on his case back and the result looked very gen. Unfortunately, I lost the posting and thought you might have dome something similar. Great job either way.

Beautiful work, Avitt. I have a some questions about the case back. Is the case back gen or an MBW? And what do you mean by 'tool marked'? Do you mean that you added scratches (to make it look older) or did you have the text engraved to make it look more correct for a vintage 1970's watch? I removed the paint from my WM DRSD case back, which made it look alot better. But the engraving still does not look vintage and I am wondering how to improve it?

Ditto that and mine (also about 28 months old) is one of those famously unreliable secs at 6 Daytonas. Keeps nearly perfect time and the chronos work. The watch is not a daily wearer, but it is wound at least once every month. But on the other side, I would also say that next to one of the silky smooth Venus chronos, the 7750 feels cheap and flimsy in comparison. Really cheap and flimsy! And if it suddenly locked and died while I was winding it, it would not surprise me. To lessen the chance of problems with any watch, as soon as you receive it (even before you remove the wrapping) carefully pull the stem out and slowly wind it (in one direction) about 40 turns. Then set the watch on a table and let it run for 48 hours. If the watch has a chrono, I would start the chrono after the watch starts running and test it by stopping, restarting, stopping and resetting it once or twice. Then return the watch to the table and let it continue to run for the remaining 48 hours. If the movement has any inherent manufacturing problems or issues resulting from shipping, these should become apparent during this time. It is probably also a good idea to let the watch completely run down (which should occur at our around the 48 hour mark). Then wind the watch 40 turns again and if all is well, you can be pretty sure you will be ok. But remember, like other people have said, reps do not receive the same QC that gen watches get. So breakdowns can and do occur more frequently. This is part of the price you pay for buying a rep. And regular servicing is a requirement of owning a mechanical watch, regardless of the movement's country of origin.

River -- I do not know who can do the coating, but most jewelry stores do engraving. Some will even do engraving while you wait (or within an hour or two). After a Bergeon waterproof case tester and a bezel remover, an engraving machine would be next on my list.

Most women like diamonds (and few know or care about whether a watch is quartz or mechanical), but unfortunately the CZ 'diamonds' used on reps look like cheap, fake crap. And unless she either does not plan to wear the watch often or you plan to replace it soon (before the gold plating wears off), I would stick with all stainless steel. I saw a woman wearing a white dial ladies stainless steel datejust with bar index markers this afternoon at Saks, and since it caught my eye that is what I would recommend. These are simple enough that they are pretty hard to ID as being a rep (since they do not have much bling, most people assume they must be real), so the worst that might happen is that someone will think you were too 'cheap' to buy her a $10k gold watch and settled instead for a $5k Rolex Datejust. It is a tough world. Most of the dealers here sell some variation of this http://www.ttwristwatch.com/index.php?main...9f66bcde3f8be4a Some dealers will even custom make the style you want (in case you want a different dial or whatever).

According to most authorities on proper dress, this is a good guide Large or colorful sports watches (think Panerai or Pepsi GMT) should be worn with sports clothes. Dangling a platinum vintage Patek pocketwatch from the pocket of your leather or denim jacket would look silly, as would wearing an AP ROO with a midnight blue dinner jacket. Moderate sized non-sports watches (think Patek Calatrava or DateJust) can be work with just about anything except formalwear. If you have the panach

Ubi -- Every time I see that watch, it brings tears to my eyes. And every time I think of how much that watch cost in time, effort and money, I want to cry. Truly, a work of art, in the truest sense. Until I can afford to climb the heights of Mt. Olympus, this will have to suffice

I see your point, but I think that is really just another excuse. I am sure there will always be more than enough demand to keep up with whatever supply of perfect reps the factories can produce. Do the gen watch companies lose sales because they produce quality watches? I do not think so. And actually I think if so-called visually 'Perfect' reps were all supplied with new, quality ETA movements, the current argument from buyers of gen watches that reps are poor quality would become a tough sell and sales of these 'Perfect' reps would only increase, cutting further into the gen marketplace. In fact, I believe that it would be the buyers of expensive gen watches who would then have to ask themselves if they are not crazy for spending so much money when they can get a rep that looks and functions (with an albeit shorter lifespan) for alot less cash.

I have been trying to purchase one or two secs at 6 Asian 7750s for awhile, but I have been told that they are not being sold separately.

It depends on the type of lume used. In my case, since I am only interested in luming vintage Subs and Sea Dwellers that by now would have relatively little glow left, the Bergeon Luminous Paste sold by Ofrei and other supply houses is perfect. It comes as a paste (and looks alot like Tritium when it dries) that you thin with water, food coloring or water-based paint. As I envision the process, once the non-painted parts of the dial have been masked (leaving only the hour markers that you want to relume), you can use a Q-tip or paint brush to quickly and easily apply the lume (dabbing with a Q-tip produces a very nice texture). Anyone who has ever painted something with multiple sections of painted and non-painted areas knows that the quality of the finished work is directly related to the quality and time spent masking before the first drop of paint is applied. That is, most of the time and effort goes into masking the parts you do not want painted. Once these are masked, applying the lume should take just a few seconds since you won't need to worry about getting lume where it does not belong. It has been a very long day, so I hope I am making sense.

Yes and I base that on the fact that many dealers advertise their (generally) more accurate models as being 'Perfect' or '1:1', etc. I just happen to be wearing my 2 year old Daytona 116520 now and it has another example of these vendor to vendor variations that I am talking about. The "A" font in DAYTONA on the dial is wrong -- it is pointed instead of having a flat top. But I have an older (el cheapo) 116520 (with a non-functional chrono) that has the correct (flattened "A") DAYTONA font. My 1 month old 116509 also has the correct DAYTONA font. And it is the same thing with virtually every rep I have seen -- Rep A gets the font right and the HE valve wrong. Rep B gets the font wrong and the HE valve right. Rep C gets both wrong, but the caseback right, yada, yada, yada. I know that at least a few of our sellers read these forums, so I know that they know what most of the gen watches look like and what the problems are. So I have to wonder why at least one of them does not offer a real visually PERFECT rep made from off the shelf existing rep parts and offered at the same price as the other watches that contain those parts?

Repaustria's thread describing how he went to great lengths to create a more accurate looking (and possibly functional) HE valve for his vintage DRSD got me thinking about the wide variations in reps for the same model of watch and how each gets one thing right and another thing wrong. For example, I have a cheap Asian-based Comex non-date Sub (The el cheapo) that I got from a UK auction site 5+ years ago and I have been waiting for the POS movement to die so I could replace it with a more reliable ETA (the movement issue is another story for another thread). But a couple of months ago, I did a short tutorial showing how I modded el cheapo's HE valve to make it look exactly like a number of similar gen watches I have seen on Timezone and Antiquorum. The thing that got me thinking after reading Repaustria's story was the fact that my el cheapo Sub case came with a brilliantly executed REMOVABLE HE valve, and it looked very much like what Repaustria came up with after alot of work on his part. It was a small metal cylinder that fit into the HE hole in the case, but it has a small indentation that runs around one of the cylinder's ends through which a spring clip slides that fits into a cutout on the inside of the case and locks the HE assembly into place (it even has a rubber gasket seal). I seriously doubt this thing would actually function as a true HE valve, but since I am only interested in a watch that LOOKS like it has a functional HE valve, it was PERFECT after I removed the cylinder and filed down the exterior end to give it a flat, slightly darker appearance (which looked like many of the gen watches on Timezone and Antiquorum). So, at least for my purposes, here is an el cheapo Sub that came with a 'working' HE that with just a bit of effort (about 2 minutes to remove, file and reinstall the little cylinder) can be made to look like the real (vintage) thing. So, the first question I had was -- Why does my expensive Watchmaster/MBW case come with an el cheapo etching in the side of the case that looks like an etching in the side of the case while my el cheapo Sub came with a realistic looking and 'working' HE valve? What is wrong with this picture? So, the next question I had was -- If the factory that pumped out the el cheapo Comex sub can do it, why doesn't the factory that crafted the otherwise nicer and more accurate Watchmaster/MBW do the same? The point to all of this is that in my years of collecting, I have seen virtually every function and feature of a Rolex watch replicated to at or very near 100% visual accuracy, but I have never seen 1 rep watch that incorporated all of these functions and features on 1 rep watch. Why does every factory get at least one thing wrong? In the case of the HE valve, the Watchmaster/MBW maker chose to use (or make) a case with an etched HE valve instead of a more realistic 'working' one. I am not sure what the reasoning was to screw up an otherwise accurate DRSD case by etching the HE valve instead of fitting a 'working' one like the one on my el cheapo Comex Sub, but it certainly was not because it was impossible to produce a good one (and on an el cheapo rep to boot). And it is the same for just about every other feature and function on a rep Rolex watch -- It would be easy to produce a real '1:1' or 'PERFECT' rep with existing rep parts if one factory knew what was required and made the effort to locate only the correct parts. And there is no reason for such a PERFECT Rolex rep to cost any more than $200-$300, since all of the PERFECT components currently exist on reps in this price range. How about it sellers?

I would ask the seller what his return and service policy is. Most sellers will note what the warranty period is somewhere on their website and this is what I would base your sale on. In most cases, warranties are 3 months. After that, you are usually on your own. Some dealers may still offer repair services, but you will need to pay for the service. I have 2 secs at 6 watches with Asian 7750 movements and 1 of them is almost 2 years old. With the exception of the 'twitchy' second hand (subdial at nine) that all of the seconds at 6 Asian 7750s seem to have, it runs well and keeps good time. But I do not wear these watches daily, nor do I play with the chrono functions often. The newer one stopped running 48 hours after I received it (the watch spent the entire time just sitting on a table (I test every watch for 48 hours before removing the wrapping or wearing it)). The seller asked me to return the watch to his watchmaker in China and it was returned a few weeks later and has been running well ever since (1 month and counting).

I have a couple of gold rep watches (Audemars and Lange) that I keep just to look at because I think they are beautiful designs and I do not wear yellow or red gold. These watches have never been worn. But I also have my PN project watch, which is also my favorite watch, that I used to wear for most formal events (where I would not be out of place (or alone) in wearing a rare watch). But since PNs have become so popular and well known and my PN does not have the correct asymmetrical pusher layout (which is one of the main things the public is being told to look for to verify vintage Daytonas) and the lower subdial is a bit too low and 'bleeds' into the outer dial area, I have stopped wearing it for fear of having it spotted as a fake. Hopefully, once I locate a more accurate watch like Euno's (DW or similar), I will be able to start wearing a PN on special occasions again.

This article got alot of attention recently on Timezone and the author had a similar experience, but he was wearing the real thing. You should probably read the 1st part first, there is a link at the top of the page http://psstmagazine.com/nov04/lange1-birthday5.shtml

I just tried something similar to this, but the problem with sheet or liquid types of masking is that you mask the entire dial and then cut out the sections you want to paint the lume through. In my case, I have not been able to figure out how to remove the masking material for those sections that I want to paint through without damaging the dial underneath (I used a razor blade). So unless someone has a better way to cut out the masking, I think using painters tape may be the better option since there is nothing to cut (the tape is placed as an outline around the parts you need to paint).

I think this is called watch porn.

I have purchased 2 of the Milano Oyster-style stainless steel bracelets from Watch Prince. These are very good quality (much better fit and finish than the bracelet that comes with most reps) but you will need to swap the Rolex clasp assembly from the rep bracelet with the blank clasp that comes on the Milano bracelet. The easiest way to do this is to remove the next to last link in each bracelet and then swap over the clasps with the links in place. The bracelet links are close enough so that they should match. The only serious problem with the Milano (and most other after-market bracelets -- if you are concerned with having a watch containing all the correct model numbers) is that they will not have the correct Rolex model numbers stamped on the end links (the curved metal ends that connect the bracelet to the watch case). Also, some of the Milano bracelets come with end pieces that fit the gen Rolex springbars, which are wider (2mm diameter) than the rep springbars (which are usually a smaller 1.5mm diameter), while some do not. Some people have been able to mod the rep end links (those that have the correct model numbers stamped on them) to fit the larger (2mm diameter) Rolex springbars, but I have never been able to widen or cut the loops that the springbars fit through without damaging the end piece.

Someone just asked me what the difference is between the two crowns in Ubi's pic, so I thought I would try to clarify this a bit more. It may be difficult to see, but the diameter of the shaft that runs up from the inside of each crown is slightly different (the shaft in the gen crown (on left) is a bit wider). Anyone who has ever tried to fit a gen Triplock crown onto a rep crown tube (the tube that comes fitted in a Rolex rep watch) knows that the inner shaft of the gen crown will not fit into the hole in the rep crown tube. And this is one of the reasons that modders need to replace the crown tube when fitting a gen crown to a rep watch. You can also very clearly see the difference in definition (sharpness) of the gen crown's 'teeth' compared to the rep's almost rounded edges (great photo, Ubi). A gen Triplock in new or mint condition can sometimes be almost painful to wind for any length of time. Also, the short, smaller diameter shaft that fits into the end of the shaft is spring-loaded (this is what gives the crown its springy resistance when you press and screw it into the case). The spring is a bit more robust in gen crowns.

That makes sense, Randy. The Daytonas I was referring to in my original post are the current 1165xx models, not the out of production 165xx versions, which would have had the earlier Triplock.

The Triplocks originally fitted to Subs and Sea Dwellers appear to be slightly different from those Rolex installs on recent Daytonas. As you can see in the pics of Daytona Triplocks (in my original post), the 3 dots appear to 'float' about half way between the bottom of the coronet and the edge of the crown face. But the dots on the Triplocks intended for Subs and Sea Dwellers are located closer to the coronet and spaced further apart from each other. Here is a scan from page 325 of 'The Best of Time: Rolex Wristwatches' (2nd Edition) by Dowling & Hess describing some of the differences Based on the information in the book and more online research, I selected this same version of the Triplock for my WM DRSD If you compare this crown with the Daytona crown from my original post, I think you will see the difference. Although this version of the Triplock with the closer (and wider spaced) dots is what Rolex fitted at the factory, I have seen many gens with the Daytona style Triplock. So I think Rolex may be fitting either version during servicing, depending on what they have in stock at the time. I want to add to what Ubi said about the profile of the gen Triplock being shorter. This is actually quite an important point because when the watch is viewed from the front, which is the way most watches are photographed, you can always tell a rep watch from a gen by the width of its Triplock crown (the rep crowns are too wide). Once you can spot the difference, the width of the crown becomes one of the first things you notice about a watch and this makes it easy to spot a rep (and harder to verify a gen if you are looking at a good rep with a gen Triplock).

I came across a few pics I took of one of my Daytona 1165xx's that show the difference between the rep Triplock crown that these (and many other Rolex rep) watches come with and the genuine Triplock crown (and tube, which you cannot see) I installed in its place. I thought others might be curious to see how both compare to the Triplock crown as fitted to the Daytona 116509 on Rolex.com. Hopefully this little review-let will be useful to anyone that may be wondering if a crown swap is worth the time, effort and expense (it is). What you cannot see from the pics is that the teeth on the gen crown are much sharper and more clearly defined than on the rep crown. So not only does the gen crown look more defined, but it feels more substantial between your thumb and finger when you turn it. And since the threads on the gen or (Swiss-made) after market crown tubes are also more substantial, the crown feels much smoother when you twist it and the threads should last alot longer too.

Yes, I would not do your testing on anything that you cannot bear to lose or replace. The Bergeon Luminous Paste has the added benefit that it comes as a paste, you only need to thin it a bit with water (or food color or paint, if you want to add some patina). It is alot easier than mixing the other stuff, but either should be fine for testing purposes.