RobbieG

Also, did someone color correct of otherwise over-shop those last Blue Seal pics or what? Overkill for sure. The very first image in the thread is closer to what it really looks like and not that electrified blue. Curious where that came from originally and if it was a civilian pic or if some magazine did it on purpose as an attention getter?

Joey, for claification though I believe the watch Hont is involved in somehow is not your rose gold grail watch (the 2009 Blue Seal Maxi Marine Chronograph), but rather last year's Maxi Marine Diver Limited Edition. This watch is a non-chrono and not in rose gold (although one version did come in that metal as a gen). As with all Nardin limited's, it does has a blue theme though. It just isn't called Blue Wave or Blue Seal, but rather Blue Surf. They change it up each year. FYI - it came in an 1846 piece limited version in steel and 500 in rose gold. Hont supposedly has the steel gen and has allegedly it to a factory for replication. The MMD has been the stuff of legend lately. Phoband and I were joking about it at the last GTG in that three factions/dealers all claim to have submitted MMD's for 1:1's. Hopefully this will be the time when all the rep world will be telling the truth (maybe hell is freezing over because of global climate changes?) and we will get three different world class MMD's. But in the meantime, this is supposedly the one Hont is doing... Also Shundi is correct on the timing. Typically it takes anywhere from 8 months to a year for a super 1:1 rep to be released from the time of initial tear down. I believe the current UN super rep took around 9 months or so. I'm not sure when the Hont alleged MMD entered the process but not more than a couple months ago if I'm not mistaken.

FYI, the gens are fragile too. My best freind is one of the biggest collectors in the country and he has three of them, in each metal - yellow, white, rose. Two of the three of them have stopped running since he got them last year with various problems.

Kevin - you keep picking these watches - like the Ulysse Royal Blue. What's next? Brother, let us try and help you understand. Replica watches and replica movements are two different things. They just don't rep movements like these. You would think it is the same process. A copy is a copy right? Wrong. Even standard watch movements are a specialty item and require great expertise to make and make run. The factories that rep the watches don't make movements. They buy the movements from other factories in China. Those factories don't make one off high end watch movements, just standard ones for economy of scale reasons. This will never change. So usually you see reps, high end reps anyway, being made of genuine watches which use similar standard type movements. And even many of those are not of the highest quality. You will always get what you pay for. If you do see a rep of something really high end, you would never want it. It will be a sub hundred dollar piece with terrible plated base metal material and none of the complications will be working, nor will the watch be visually accurate. I just thought I would try and clarify this for you before you ask for a Breguet Double Tourbillion or Nardin Ghengis Khan next...just kidding...welcome to the fray. But you need to lower your standards a bit and maybe try starting with reps of gens that cost less than 200k, 100k, or even 50k. In fact, the best reps made are of watches that cost less than 7K as gens and the movements are a very good reason for that. It allows the reps in many cases to not only be CNC made with 1:1 case parts, but also use the exact same movement as the gen as well...

LOL. Yeah, I stepped back from the hobby quite some time ago as evidenced by my current collection. No doubt about that. I hope you don't mind that I continue to visit though and forever be a champion of thoughtful progress? And I'm sure we all know I am aware of the class divisions of reps and the vastness of their marketplace. Actually, the truth is although our market is small, we are the alpha dogs and the catalyst for production and test market evaluation of the highest quailty 1:1 pieces. After we see them the are sold wholesale and in the watchmarkets of course for much more money, but the factories are very tuned in with what we say and what our buying habits are to influence scope and bredth of final production planning. Further, our dealers are evaluated by the makers on the basis of their web traffic. They exist at the pleasure of the makers only in so far as they can effectively guerilla market and get the word out to the wholesalers as to what the hot new watch is they need so that after it passes through the first pipeline which is us, the makers are assured at getting top dollar for the ones that "even the watch nuts" are satisfied with. I think it was pretty clear that what I was trying to illustrate was that the brand has been around longer than many which have had much attention from the super rep factories, and yet there is still only the MMDC so far. And let's be honest, the only reason that one is here is because it could be built with the now almost boring A7750. Of course there have been a few great 2824 reps too, but the supply will dwindlw there and it simply doesn't have enough flexibility to cross enough brands. Breitling is one of the only left that still uses it seriously. If we don't push for the industry to push the envelope - especially with movements, UN is just one of many brands which will quickly run out of runway. The MMDC is the only watch in the 1846 line which can use that movement and as such I fear it may be one of the only ones. I guess I need to do another movement post maybe. This time about the 2892 and why it is the best and most complete ebauche ever made from any movement manufactory. If only GZ had a reliable in house 2892 clone with solid supply and complications modules exactly like the 2891/93/94/95/96/97 we will have a lot more reps to choose from instead of waiting for another 7750 gen to come out before seeing any new reps. That, my friends, was exactly why we got the MMDC and when we got it. UN had to make a 7753 watch, then Josh pre-ordered one of the first runs out of Basel, then it went in and a year later we got the rep. The tail is wagging the dog with regard to the 7750 around here these days...

So I Google the phrase, "Nardin Replica" this morning and here is a sampling of what I found. Yuk... Maxi Marine Chronographs (MMC's) - 41MM like these examples: Instead, we get these... Maxi Marine Chronometers (MMCM's) - 43MM like this example: Instead we get these - with chrono pushers???... Marine Aqua Perpetual (MAP's) - 42.7MM MMD style case like this example: Instead we get this, which is my personal favorite (not)... But perhaps the moment we have all been waiting for which is the Maxi Marine Diver might be the most disturbing and disappointing. I say no more other that I hope this isn't the big finish. And again, can someone tell me what is with the color scheme as well as the chrono pushers on a non-chrono watch. I wonder if they open your garage door or something... How can you turn this: Into this... I really hope the industry is going to step it up and start taking the brand more seriously. These make me literally sick to my stomach...

I think this is already a duplicate thread in the OB area no?

Love it. The 7753 would be perfect and of course they have a A7750 ebauche for that now so the rep would be no problem. the date closness to the rehaut is partly a function of case size. Also a 2892/4 would work - DD module with some creative section placement. Yeah, yeah I know I'm beating a drum, but why not use this thread as well to tell the facteories how much we need them to either: 1. Build on the 2892 clone (and start using it alot) by making all the modules (2891,93,94,95,96,97) so we can have literally EVERY other complicated and non-complicated watch ever made repped practically. For the noobs, the ebauches (and/or modules) I named above cover a full perpetual calendar, GMT's, big dates, sweep seconds, seconds at 6, seconds at 3, date at 3, date at 6, date at 4:30, chronograph, & PR display. 2. At the very least rep the chronomodule to be fit on the 2892 so we at least have a 2894. They can then make a few placements with seconds at 3 and seconds at 9 and a few date placement variations as well. Didn't mean at all to hijack here. It's just whenever I see reps with different movement issues it reminds me how many of those issues could be solved with the 2892 mods. That they already have the base Seagull just sitting around kills me, and it is a great movement for starters. The layouts of the 7750/53 are limiting due to the construction of the movements and as such we are literally running out of runway with those. In short, it isn't easy to move stuff around depending on the watch. With the 2892 variants we could literally have thousands of new reps including working, Swiss quality high end stuff like calendars, big dates, etc. Think of the possiblilities....

No chance. Movement will never be replicated.

Ya man! Shaka's all around. RWG Boyz take care...

Hahaha. I just saw this. Yeah, the phone is not my style, but now that you mention it - matches my blue silks quite nicely. That said, if I had one it's home would be in a case or drawer. But elsewhere in SFLA? South Beach is gonna love it. It will blend in nicely with all the iced out BB's and SA's and custom lowered Hummers. I'm from the snobby, Waspy part of the state. I don't know which is more annoying... The only reason I live here is because it is the only truly winterless sub tropical climate in the continental US in EST - for market reasons. I would live in Hawaii or the west coast but don't want to adapt to crazy market hours. In short, I don't belong here, but the weather is warm so I don't complain. Most people come here to retire. As soon as I can retire I'm outta here...

Very interesting, thanks. I wasn't familiar with that movement.

Yeah, that is why I took the joaillerie angle as I think its best real use will be not to be used. I suspect most collectors who purchase them will not activate them as it will attract the high end WIS collector as opposed to a typical high end phone buyer. Again, genius. He just knows he will sell them to all the guys who bought Royal Blues and Ghengis Khans and Kremlins, etc. who will buy anything collectable and UN. But it is very important that they be limited as he has no intention or desire to revolutionize cell phones. That is the key really. But on the other hand if they ever did take hold as the cool new thing he will get credit for inventing it, but trust me he wouldn't keep making them even if he could profit. He has to keep it exclusive for his whole system to work and for it to halp long run middle range watch sales. In short, he has no risk in the deal. Everything to gain and nothing to lose. he sells them all easily to collectors cause there are only a few, he gets another notch in the innovation belt that strengthens the brand each time, and if he should get lucky and stumble on something that takes hold and becomes a fad or a long term thing he gets the credit for creating it. He's covered. And I would guess you are right on about the rotor. The big barrel just helps create additonal energy for capacitor storage to extend battery life. And again, I wonder what the ticket will be? Of course 20K iced out cell phones are not uncommon and you have to figure it to cost more than a standard watch with standard appointments, so what do you say? 10k? 15k? More? Less?

I don't know how to tell you this, but RobbieG is actually speechless. Just kidding... I called a guy that should know and he told me that details are vague but the rotor isn't just for the watch. It is rumoured that there is at least one large and torquey mainspring barrel and some weird escapement that actually uses the rotor energy as a charging source for the phone as well as the timepiece. Again, don't quote me. The finish concept is similar to a special edition San Marco Kremlin watch, which has this really amazing (albeit impractical and more for a display cabinet than the wrist) Cloissone enamel dial. Thousands of hours of hand painting and painstaking kiln firing process and all that. Presented in a similarly finsihed Fabrege egg. As absurd as the egg (or phone) idea may seem, keep in mind UN has traditionally done very well with high end collectables. Whatever they do - whether watches, chronometers, eggs, phones, barometers, pens, etc., they always are limited editions and they always involve some kind of cutting edge experiment that has never been done before. I have learned to look upon them from the positive angle which is that it is really genius in that they not only do it, but they make it clear that the only reason they are doing whatever is to see whether or not "they can" and with no intention of continuing to do it long term. A big part of their image is innovation - more so than anyone else in the biz hands down. And even with the watches it is the same thing. All limited and the sales of them are secondary to again, pushing the envelope which is how they differentiate themselves from the competition. They do this stuff to get attention and it works because it is always different and amazing in someway. When they come out with something at this point people know that it is going to be out there and innovative. They use that to bolster their rep and then ironically use it to sell 190 million dollars worth of non-complicated watches each year. Genius really... Seeing this didn't make me giggle or even think it is absurd really, although I get why it may for many. I'm just seeinmg it another way I guess which is that Nardin wants people to be taken back and have that reaction. He is the one laughing. That is his genius really. It also reconfirms why I love the brand so much. 110% originality. And even in this economic climate. It is like their way of saying the Nardin creative machine is very much alive and even though the whole world is going broke we are going to make a bespoke haute joaillerie cell phone with a 22k gold rotor in it that probably costs ten grand. Love it. Being one of the last of the independents affords them the luxury of doing exactly what they feel like. And the sales continue to tumble in despite all these types of things that are never intended to be permanent. If they aren't the biggest independent success story in the industry since the early 80's with the new ownership I don't know who is. Rolf Schneider has got ba*ls that clank!. I swear when I semi-retire I'm going to beg him for a job and I'll work for free - just to be in the think tank. Creativity like that which breeds from their camp is the stuff dreams are made of and what also makes me tick. I built my own business with the same concepts. Many similarities between his and my own business model. There are many people in many industries who could learn alot from that man. Whether one likes his watch designs or other inventions is really an afterthought and a worthless matter of personal taste. Like them or not he is doing his own thing and one of the very few in the watch industry that is firing on all cylinders. I might buy one and put it away unactivated just to have as a conversation piece if the price is reasonable - although I'm sure it won't be. I really want a modern ships chronometer from them so I'm kind of holding out for them to do another run of those again first though.

Oh, I never left the first page. I guess that is why I didn't spot any reps. Surely the column wheel king wouldn't have missed that one. If I did I guess it might question plagerism on my 2310/175/ST19 article huh?

Not that I can see, but then again I don't know them all well enough (or care to on a few of them). What did you have in mind?

Certainly world class, although if I am to be honest his use of light and diffusion and the associated techniques aren't the best I have seen in horology. They are technically great but to me they are missing soul or something. Hard to quantify. But his use of strobes is very technically proficient He certainly is achieving things better than I, but then my more serious photography is in landscape work and not watches. In fact I use a point and shoot for all the pictorials I have ever posted here. Anyway, thanks for posting. I enjoyed the images and don't mean to be overly critical. It's just that I have seen some really amazing soulful horology work that has jaded me forever. And lets not forget we have some guys on the forums that are doing stuff this good every week! How lucky we are to have them!

Nah, not me. I didn't buy it. Have all the black dialed sports watches I want and happy with my rhodium MMD of course. So nobody here grabbed it huh? Shundi?

PS: It is also an early serial - numbered under 500, and from the alpha year. I'm sure that may of had something to do with why the high bid was above anticipated, along with an appetite for deals. Anyone who researched it probably set limits of $2500-$3000 based on comps so I suppose in retrospect it sold for exactly what it should have.

Here is the most complete answer I can think of: Well keep in mind UN's limited production keeps the value of MMD's up for one thing. I've said it before, but I'll say it again: This watch has been in production since 2004 and they have only made less than 7000 of them. That is just over a thousand pieces a year. Almost like a limited edition without technically being limited. I does help keep things in perspective when it is compared against it's lower cost dive watch competitors - Rolex, Breitling, Omega, IWC, etc. Then again it does gets alot of that "exclusive" respect as well from the JLC, Blancpain, Breguet Marine, Vacheron Overseas crowd. It is a pretty unique watch in that it gets attention from both camps, but the sales figures suggest more the latter in terms of sell through. It is a little too pricey to sell to a typical buyer of a Steelfish or Planet Ocean in other words. Sort of half way between IWC and Breguet if you will, which I actualy read somewhere that is where Rolf sees that line and hence why he priced it there... That said, I have also said that the fit, finish, etc. places it much higher than its retail price although I concede that if someone doesn't realize that it can get "perceived" as being more of a head to head with say the Breitling Aeromarine line. Not fair, but I get it as the price point and brand obscurity are working against understanding by the uninitiated. So the watch and its exclusivity and its price point and its blurred competitor list are all sort of a multi faceted paradox of sorts I suppose. I say all that to give another way to perceive value with these particular watches. In other words when you consider what you get for the money and compare it to comparable third party ebauche based offerings from VC, BP, - it really is a "steal" at the full retail price of $7500, given what an Vacheron Overseas or Fifty Fathoms or Breguet Marine costs at retail which is the quality level it is hitting. So as is typical of RobbieG, I gave a pretty big answer. lol. Anyway, $7500 retail new. $5500 or so with a good discount new. $4000+ not atypical for nice preowned examples. So yeah, I would say anything under $3000 is a bonafide steal given you are pretty unlikely to see any of the true quality competitors I mentioned above at that price. Not even close. A Breguet Marine piece is comparable in quality and style and is $15,300 on bracelet in SS and a VC Overseas is $11,600 retail on SS bracelet.

Now how about blue stitch on the strap and I think you will have it licked...

Gotcha, and excuse my igorance but why don't you or other modders use the pen applicator? I assume it doesn't work weel when going over old lume just for applying fresh stuff?

There are no other rep forums besides RWG, silly rabbit...

Congrats man. Nice knowing you and having you around all these years. Here's to ten thousand more!