Valty

Price for p301, sealed, is right :-) These are impossible to find in sealed package Don't forget Daytonas are highly valued, and having gen original stuff (and not service) add some more value to the gen deal (certainly more than the asking price BTW) Obviously, this do not make any sense on a rep... :-)

... :D So true, cheap springbars from Cousins... never been able to get the gen deal If someone have a pair for me...

Hello RWG Let's play a little game... What do you think about this ? Gen ? Franken ? If Franken, witch parts are not gen ? And witch gen parts are used ? Here are some quick photos... I'm very impatient to see your thoughts ! A little hint : I'm VERY happy about it !!! Cheers & good luck... R.

I think I would prefer to wear a Swatch... The painting of the case & bracelet is the weirdest thing I've seen...

I think it is understated for VRM... Running perfectly & strong looks like better... :) Don't forget to mention the few scratches on the crystal are easily recoverable, and the lugs are still strong and not over-polished... Still waterproof too, of course...

I had the same "problem" when buying a *simple* 1575 on VRM... Was "keeping good time and running fine"... My WM told me 1 week earlier it runs about 1,5 hours more a day... Holy crap ! I hate this feeling ! Hope you will get your movement in good running conditions soon I think I have some feedback to leave on VRF... :) BTW, your 6200 project is lovely...!!!! You guys really give me the want to make an early sub... !

Hey cc33, just tried to PM you but your inbox seems to be full...!

The best aftermarket case back is the one from MQ currently. The Phong is good, especially on the artificial aging, but not accurate concerning the engraving. The only problem with MQ case back is it's not cheap. You can find a gen service case back for almost the same price (it's the way I choose) For a budget 1665, a MBW case back would be a good solution See here for Phong and MQ offers : http://www.rwgforum.net/topic/150198-1665-white-caseback/

@panerai153, You are 100% right Selling high end reps is always a problem, especially when the price goes high. I think the only exception is the manual Daytona's, just because the gen are sold for too much money ($22-25k for the entry ?). So making a near-gen build for 1/2 or 1/3 of the gen price is not a bad idea. I see many frankens Daytona's on eBay go with very high prices (and they are sold as franken) @Watchmeister, I strongly think this kind of build should not sell for less than $9.5k / $10k, even if the Phong's stuff is highly depreciable in terms of value, it is still here and working fine I agree about the spare parts deprecation, but building this kind of Dayto is truly one of the harder build in the Rolex world. I started buying my parts for my 2 frankens 1,5 years ago, and still don't have any "result"... Too much money, too valuable stuff, too fragile pieces, I had a hard time to find a WM in my country to do my project safely @dropbear, Genuine T hands for manual Daytona's are too hard to find. Even dials are easy to catch... This is probably why the prices are sky-rocketing....!!! Indeed, there is no good quality aftermarket hands now. When you compare aftermarket hands VS the genuine, there is so much differences in terms of design & quality... Some examples : - I was amazed to see none of the aftermarket sub-dial hands have sharp ends like the original. None of them are the correct size, too. And I'm not talking if you want to go with a V726, witch have different pinion sizes than V72 or Rolex movements (chrono seconds pinion is much larger - that's a big problem). - If you are looking the chrono seconds hands from Phong, most of them are not perfectly cut at each end. The arrow is not sharp as it should, and the "ball" at the other end is never like the original (plus too much material at the end, due of the cut problem) - When you try to fit... let's say some DW hands on a V726. The chrono seconds hand have to be hardly modded, and considering it's made of aluminum, it breaks / bent very easily on resets. - Do not compare the thickness and profile of aftermarket hands vs gen hands. Never. Aftermarket hands are very flat, and too thin (= very fragile). If you look at gen hands, they are rounded, not flat, thick, my english is too poor to find the right definition, but I would say they are in "3D", when the AM hands are in "2D". This makes a lot of visual differences, not talking about the resistance of the hands in the time. Gen hands are made of brass or white gold, witch is more resistant than any aftermarket hands (I bet they are all made of aluminum). This way, they can be modded for fitting on V72 or V726 without too much worries if the WM is good... Today, I would be very worried to have a rep Daytona without gen hands. I should make a photo comparison one day... it worth the shot to be seen @OP I would love to see a macro photo of each sub-dial, especially the right one. Something looks strange in your photo, but it's hard to tell because the quality is too low. But I'm maybe wrong

1665 => "Fat font" insert, if you want to stay "original" You can also look for thin font 1680 inserts if you want to spend less. Or service ones 5 digits inserts will not fit (Sapphire models, not the same caliber)

Gen Sigma Dial, cost somewhere between 2.2k€ and 2.5k€ in this condition Phong Case & Back-Case, $850 + $350 => 900€ Gen 6265 bezel, i would say 700-800€ in this condition, but hard to tell with one photo only Gen 78350 bracelet, not more than 300€ if in good conditions. If 571 end links you can add 200€, or 50€ for 557 Phong Valjoux 72 converted to 727... I don't know how it worth really. But let's say 900€ for a Valjoux 72 in good conditions, and he is charging 2250€ ( ) for the movement conversion. I suppose he used aftermarket Rolex signed parts to make this transformation. If one of the You can add 200€ of servicing I guess. Plus another 100-200€ for the initial WM work Crown & tube looks like 703 / 7030 ? Hard to tell. 150€. Add another 200€ if it's 702 or 700 crown / tube P302 pushers x2 400€ Gen T21 plexi => 140€ (if it was sealed - many rep plexi are very good. Phong T21 looks very like gen) Having your Daytona in one shot without looking to any parts / etc. => PRICELESS !!!! Makes a total of ~8.4k€ - 8.8k€ >>>> $11.2k - $11.7k for the parts I.M.O., the price should be less because it is truly impacted by the Valjoux 72 conversion. It really does not worth this kind of money Phong is asking. My 0.02 cents, I never was a big fan of movement conversion with aftermarket parts To me, a fair price for the watch will be somewhere in the 7.5 - 8.5k€, depending of many factors we can't see in one picture R. PS: Finding some gen hands is a must... These are a huge tell when you know the real deal...! (700-900€ if you are enough lucky to find a set in good conditions)

+1 on Spin for a "budget" but convincing quality manual Daytona :-) With gen crown, tube, and plexiglass, you have something truly good for less than 1000eur IMHO, the cartels reps are a bunch of s**t. If you want better than Spin, expect to pay at least 4 or 5x more (at least...), and don't be afraid to loose your hair :-)))))))

Very very nice aging ! IMO, you should remove the pearl, it does not look gen at all...

Hey mate, I think you're right, I don't think sellers like Minh or Phong will scam you / keep your money... If they starts to do that, they will kill their business very quickly... And my little finger says to me their business are very profitable Why kill the goose that lays golden eggs ? Hope you will have your perfect PN dial - can't wait to see that !

Where are you located aurelienconiglio ?

Sigma = WG hands / markers / dial coronet as you said Was used before the Big Red comes Makes a great difference when your dial being old, because no corrosion at all - Sigma no Daytona from 70 to ~74-75 - Then rare version Sigma Big Red Daytona 74 / 75 (3.9 to 4.3 mil) - Then Big Red Daytona from 75 to 87 with 2 kind of dials (early & later - the position of the ROC does the difference : the "COSMOGRAPH" is aligned with top of sub-dials on later version, when the ROC is further from the crown). You can check with mine on my thread - it's a later version of the Big Red dial - Service Small Red Daytona comes in 91 About your crown / tube, you should have : - 700 if it's 70 to ~72 - Or a 702 if it's ~72 to 75 Depending of course of your S/N again To avoid problems, the better is to avoid the transitional years when you're choosing your S/N BTW, great watch, wear it in good health ! I just hope you will change this 703 one day Hope this helps ! Cheers mate

Thanks mate Valjoux 726

Hm... expensive-never-ending-builds are fun, right ? At least, this is what I prefer in the watches world... Maybe a little of masochism Unfortunately, my wallet is crying for a long time with all these projects ... Hi mate Thanks you very much !!! The 6265 (my first Daytona project) is currently with my watchmaker !! Will be finished very soon It took much time to me to find the "right" WM... Not easy in EU So I have many projects to make now ! After, this will be my 1665 And then, the 6240 will arrive... I hope before 2013 ! So I'm not ready to start the 6263... Be sure I will prepare a nice thread with all my projects very soon... This will be amazing !!!

Me it's the bezel - it looks sharper on the gen :-) Great watches BTW !!!

You can imagine how much happy I am to have found this rare bird !!! :) Did I forget to mention the handset is original to the watch with this dial ? That's the icing on the cake...!

Yep, like my 2 initial projects. I was thinking to try to make a group buy like we did before with Mr. Gimme There is no other "good" solution for a Daytona case anyway !

LOL Don't worry, I know him, he is not a bad guy at all Just a Daytona purist I think this third build will be something really cool at the end... Now I have 4 others projects to finish before starting to think about this 6263 !!! It was just a "little" teaser... I hope to finish at mid-2013 ! Thanks mate ! :-) You can add the photo to your collection, I think there is not this kind of Big Red in it Only the "floating" Big Red, what is a little different on the printings !

Thanks mate !! Thanks The only problem I found on all the aftermarkets bezels is they are all too thin compared to a gen bezel... not talking about the printings. I'll maybe will order one, just to compare with my gen service bezel. It can be a good way for waiting a gen one ! I'm anyway absolutely not hurry to finish this project - I already have a 6265 on it's way and a 6240 :D

I think I found a cool way to start my third ( ) Daytona project ! This will be a 6263 BTW Almost 1 year of researches to find this dial & hands... and finally... Now the tricky part will be to find a gen bezel at a fair price... Something is telling me this will not be easy !!! Cheers R.

Hard to tell with low-res outputs - it can also be an exportation problem But you are right, it seems the "R" is a little strange...