mezzanine

Definitely looks good to me.

Freddy, that is an awesome post. With regard to the dial, I'm surprised that the NDtrading dials aren't better than the MBW ones. I have what I think is an aftermarket dial in my 1665 that I would swear is better in objective terms than the MBW dial- but you're much more aware of the merits of these dials than I am. If it's possible to find a good aftermarket DRSD dial, I'll swap out the dial at the same time I'm doing the crystal.

Genuine bracelets just absolutely make the watch with these Rollies. For some reason it seems that the bracelets are very hard for the rep manufacturers to get right. I wouldn't have really thought that until seeing the genuines in person. I wanted to ask what your impression of the genuine bezel upgrade is? I'm thinking of getting a genuine bezel for my 1680, which is obviously much different, but I'm trying to get a feel for the value of the mod.

I agree with avitt, it's not worth it to drop that kind of money on an aftermarket case when there is a cheaper alternative. I could see the value in a group buy for a model that is not available to us (like GMT or Explorer) and only if we could get it for wholesale. The whole thing that I like about these cases is that they can take genuine parts. My interest is almost exclusively now in being able use these platforms for those parts as a high % of the total value of the watch. When we start talking about spending that kind of money on a case, it limits the ability to worry only about the cost of the genuine parts- which is how it 'should' be.

Thanks for the feedback...I'm not going to lie, I bought it before I even posted that picture, but figured it might be prudent to actually know what I was going to be getting. That's my style with these parts... I like roll in "blind" on their purchase and then make a game of it for the community to figure out what we're looking at. That's how I'm rationalizing it today. The finish being more glossy seeming than what I usually associate with vintages causes me to wonder if it's more recent. At the same time, I've got a very old insert off a genuine red 1680 that has that same type of finish even though it's faded. I just checked the measurement, and this should be the ultimate clue: 37 1/2mm 31mm I keep squinting my eyes to see if I can make out a metal ring around that pearl, but I can't seem to squint hard enough...

Hoping to get an expert opinion on this one. I couldn't really see it that well with the camera angle and I have no clue about this stuff-

Thanks man...much appreciated. Check your USB port, Oli.

I can't find that guy or place....is he an ebay seller?

I'm surprised at how consistent some of the collecting patterns have been over time. I bought everything for about a year, and used that to get a feel for what I really liked. Ironically, I ended up liking what I thought I would like the least at the onset and for most of my crazy phase, which is Rolex. I don't like modern Rolex, and I only like a few particular vintage models, but if you'd told me I would settle on a couple of Rolex's that are some of the more commonly appearing replicas, I wouldn't have believed it. Right now I have four watches in my collection. Two franken Rolex's, a 1680 and 1665, and a MBK AP ROO and HBB w/ceramic bezel. I'm in the process of getting the ROO back, but that will be going shortly thereafter. I love the Genta style watches, and the HBB with the polished ceramic bezel is the apex of the rep hobby to this point, IMO, in terms of technical development out of China. But one thing I always like to bring up in these conversations is a simple mathemetical scenario that impacts all of us in a major way..the financial implications of our hobby. Follow me for a moment... We were speculating that a significant percentage of people who either view or participate in this site have a collection of 20 replica watches. Let's say that the average price of those reps is $300. I could see an argument being made that it would be less- but we are in '08 now, and the days of reps being less than that being a part of current collections is a declining proposition. That gives us a figure of $6000 US. Reps depreciate at a rate of approximately 25% per year and follow a commodity based depreciation rate. If we assume that most of us are lazy enough to only end up selling half of our watches over the next two years, and we also assume that we won't buy another rep (unlikely), then it will have only cost us a few thousand bucks to have a killer collection with more inherent value than their market price here may suggest, like the SFSO for example. But the point remains that there's a cost of having access to these little jewels.

Bluebite take a look for a thread I recently made about trying to organize a possible group buy for some of these vietnamese cases being talked about. The reason why we're working on that route is because the NDtrading mark-up on the wholesale price is expensive enough to make it a difficult base to justify for those of us on a budget.

MBW 1680 with the following genuine parts: -1978 white submariner dial -7836 folded bracelet w/285 endlinks (for now- soon to be 9315) -vintage insert -vintage crown -triplock tube -T-127 crystal -slow-beat ETA 2846

Thanks guys, yeah, I was looking for my camera right now to see if I could do some more bracelet-specific shots to get a better sample to judge the authenticity. Then I was thinking "should I get at least a night with the 'possibility' it could be real first" but then I realize I'm too curious for my own good.

Take a wild stab as to how expensive this rep is: And then run away in the other direction and save yourself!!

Stephane, that's maybe the only modern rollie I think I like...

I received a 7836 that I open up to your careful eyes and wise evaluation. I'm not sure whether these couple of introductory pics will be sufficient, but I wanted to show a few pics of what is essentially going to be the final result of my 1680. I had to use a set of 501 endlinks because of the shape of differing widths of the openings and spaces amongst the various endlinks- I've found it's often more an empirical experimentation process than anything. MBW 1680 with the following genuine parts: -1978 white submariner dial -7836 folded bracelet w/501 endlinks (for now- soon to be 9315) -vintage insert -vintage crown -triplock tube -T-127 crystal -slow-beat ETA 2846 My favourite watch. I am loving the feel of the folded bracelet, in terms of the lightness and comfort of it. It seems to show the wear I would expect of a 'vintage' bracelet of this age. My first impression is that it's genuine, but we'll wait for a particular austrian fellow to get a closer look once I get some better shots of the bracelet posted.

Laz, a suggestion on possibly adding even more $$ to your already expensive 1665 project, but sometimes you can find deals on genuine 78360 bracelets that look better than a rep bracelet...not 'correct' exactly, but better in terms of overall appearance, IMO.

Awesome Laz, the SSD looks impressive. I've read some of the mixed reviews about it, but I think the modded pieces look nice. Do you like one over the other? It's kinda a rhetorical question I guess, but the SSD looks so nice that I figured it might be pretty close. Damn, when you mentioned those 585 endlinks, I did a sharp inhalation. I've been seeing some ridiculous prices. What's interesting is that there'd been debate about the prices of t-39 superdomes, some saying that they've been going for absurd amounts, some saying they're within the more recent historical price range. I'd said that they were still available for cheaper, but it looks to me like there are people buying/selling them for both amounts. Strange, this rolex market is. I'm still anxiously waiting to see if my 7836 bracelet is going to show up and be genuine.

While I can understand why this would be a good option considering the rarity of the genuine inserts, these aftermarkets are pretty costly. I'd love to be able to handle one. I've yet to see an aftermarket one that can get the appearance in the light of the gen. There's a dimension to the blackness of the genuine that can make it look as though it's painted, but the material itself is actually different as well. This is evidenced by the effects of bleaching both, and the time differential it takes to get the fading effect for each. Genuine inserts are the quintessential vintage rolex part. They embody the ironic qualities that are characteristic of all the genuine part upgrades. They're one of the absolute hardest parts to find. They're way overpriced by any standard definition of reasonable value, to the point of absurdity. They're hard to disguish between the rep and gen for most people visually. Problem is, they're absolutely necessary because they're the only coloured part of the watch. As a result, they're completely worth it.

Justasgood, can I ask where you were able to score a genuine bracelet for so cheap? I noticed in the pic it's still got 501's on it. I have to say, I think that for a case that ultimately used a modern dial, the value there is questionable. You did awesome with the movement and especially the bezel/insert, if you ever feel like getting rid of it or letting me know where you got it, please give me a heads up via PM. For me, I wouldn't be willing to spend that much money on an aftermarket case, with the possible exception of a DW or 1655.

Not necessarily- if you look at repaustria's 1655, he fitted his with an ETA movement. I would be intrigued with both a 1680 and 1665 from NDtrading, but considering the community has had these available in the form of MBK's. I would imagine that a high % of the people that would be interested in a vietnamese case would already have a 1665/1680 from MBK. That's the only catch. I could be wrong about that, though. Hopefully it wouldn't matter, and people could choose from the possibilities listed on Phong's website. The idea of building a watch from the ground up doesn't scare me as much any more.

As much as the prospect of having to build a watch from scratch may scare me, that's pretty much what's happened with the MBW's I own anyways, so I think that's less an issue than being able to get a case that will accept genuine parts and is not available through MBK.

Wow, I wasn't even thinking that there would be any interest in this, and I laughed when I saw Oli replied cause I figured I should've just put it in a PM because that would be the end of it. DVN, that's awesome if you're able to speak vietnamese and have friends who live there. I wonder if, with a little bit of work, we might be able to track down the source of these things directly. Considering the mark-up on the MBW's, and considering that NDtrading sells primarily to a genuine owner market, I am hoping that we may discover that they're affordable, and if so, the possibility of branching into uncharted territory is wide-open.

This was the same way I felt for the first year or so that I was collecting reps. I wouldn't even consider a rolex. My initial thought when I'd got into reps was that the stupidest thing one could do would be to wear a Rolex, as not only does everyone think Rolex's are fake, but with the incredible quality of some of the newer non-rolex reps, it was an even dumber idea. There were a number of factors that caused me to go in the direction I'd sworn I never would. As I learned about how the "rep world" works more generally, in terms of gaining knowledge about the different paths available to be able to personalize one's own taste, I wanted to get a 'taste' for as many of the brands and niche's that exist. With the vintage rolex's, you can use the more detailed knowledge of the community's members to find deals on genuine parts. Most owners of genuine vintage rolex's probably don't know what each part of their watch costs in proportion to the whole. When those owners list those parts in the market place, they may not price them within the usual range that they're commonly sold for- perhaps aiming too high, more often pricing themselves below the market. This integrated knowledge of both the replica and genuine watch 'economies', as well as the unique 'bridge' that the vintage rollies represent in being able to benefit the most from those two worlds, make that particular 'rep niche' especially intriguing once you've made the rounds of owning the latest rep. Right now I've got two vintage rollies that are pretty much genuine with the excepiton of their cases and movements. The thing is, I don't really care about the cases and movements- I don't want to pay the premium for the serial number, and the cost of servicing the movement. So in that sense, if someone were to observe that I was wearing a 'fake' rolex, as is the topic that got us to this point, they'd be in an interesting position to try to point out the basis of their observation. You better have quite an eye for crown guards, that's all I can say. Buying and selling replica watches can get quite expensive, by the way. I always like to observe that the average rep probably declines at least 25% a year, whereas the price of the vintage rolex parts have probably increased at a similar rate.

Good point. I think that's the key- having someone that is able to be an intermediary that would be willing to do something of a 'group buy' at a price that would ensure them a worthwhile profit, while giving us a chance to get one of these cases at a more reasonable price than what we would get through Phong. I don't understand how it's different than the situation with the MBK's. I am guessing they're not available from a single location, like the MBKs are. It seems like it's a matter of logistics. It also seems like this would be a natural evolution with the growth of the hobby, etc. I'm not sure if the viet-cases are shrouded in the same type of mystery as the MBW's used to be. I would think that there would be significant interest in a 1:1 Explorer case, for example. Even a 1665 case, from what I've seen, is enough of an upgrade over the MBK 1665 case that it would probably draw significant interest. Or even better, a 1680 that would fit a gen dial without mods, etc...