By-Tor

Talking about desperate measures... Is this finally the "purrfect" Sub? The crown guards look modified already. Small children should not see this TAG Link as it's so freakin' horrible: Oh yeah... you guys know how I always wanted the perfect Aquaracer 2000 chrono. Now I've found it, I can die happy! Actually I'm quite surprised to see that the guy has some 7750-powered watches too... like the PO Chrono. But most of his stock is just miserable junk. End site review: Score: 3 out of 10. Doesn't look like a scam site... 3 points for the brutal honesty.

I know IWC makes great watches. I know the brand has superb reputation among the WIS. Still, IWC has never really been my favourite. It's the over-simplistic design that I never liked... but lately the GST, Aquatimer and Ingenieur have been growing on me (yeah that's a dumb term)... but it's SO true. Damn... like I needed another brand to collect. That white GST is probably still my favourite... it's very beautiful watch. Great pics Maciek. You're on the roll buying new reps, eh?

Because it's quite hard to take good wrist shots of your own wrists from a distance... and from different perspectives. It's like when people say "go f..ck yourself". It's probably possible, but anatomically it's quite challenging... unless you have a seriously wide "innie". This is how the SMP looks on a 8' wrist... from a distance. Here's a TT Sub on my 8'wrist (sorry 'bout the noisy pic) We once had a "who has the bigger arm competition" on the old RWG with Joe. One more "different" wrist shot. This is technically better because it's not shot through mirror: GMT Master. I find the 40-42mm being the perfect size for me.

Thanks guys. Yes, I have a genuine looking pearl ready for my Noobmariner. I think I'll do the cg's as well (eventually). Not because I think they're "essential" mods for this watch... but just for fun.

A friend and a fellow forum member asked me if I wanted to have his almost brand spankin' new "Noobmariner" for free. He said that that he had liked my reviews and would like to see this watch reviewed and photographed by me as well. At first I thought that I couldn't accept the gift... but I've read Puggy's and other guys' reviews of this watch... so I couldn't resist. I was curious, to say at least. This same fellow, who is well known of his generosity among other members too, wants to remain anonymous. It wasn't the first time someone made me a favour here, but giving a watch for free to someone you have never met is quite exceptional. I try to refrain from advertising the the dealers in my reviews, but just for clarification: "Noobmariner" is the same watch that TTK sells for $100, and that's where this watch originally comes from. Since I praised PT in my last review it's only fair to give credit when credit is due: Neil deserves kudos for bringing bargains like this to our attention. Yes, you read it right: The price of the watch is $100. It has Asian automatic movement which oscillates at 21,600 BPH. Ziggy has never made an excessive breakdown and review of the basic 21J Asian Automatic, and I guess it would be too big of a generalization to put them all into the same basket. But Ziggy describes these movements in his Watch basics review: Most need no service, and overall are new and clean and well oiled. The sweep isn't as smooth as ETA, but honestly you have to look really close before you notice any difference (and preferably put the watches side-by-side). This was my first (but most likely not the last) basic Asian 21J-powered watch and I must say I'm impressed by the accuracy and sweep. If you consider that you can get these watches for half the price (compared to ETAs) I'd say these watches are superb value for money. And even if the movement fails for some reason, a swap to ETA ($60 from Ofrei) is a piece of cake to any watchsmith. So... what do you get for $100? You get excellent, accurate and high quality replica. It doesn't have any of the typical flaws that all standard Submariner reps had less than 12 months ago. It has shiny, metallic rehaut, smooth 120-click bezel, almost invisible etched crown on the crystal, hollow link Oyster bracelet, datewheel and cyclops placed correctly (not too right on the dial/crystal), sharp, almost flawless dial and a reasonable pearl. But the most impressive detail of this watch to me is the satin finish of the bracelet and lugs. The bracelet had sharp edges and I had to file them smoother, but the steel is very shiny and impressive. When you receive this watch be careful not to remove the finish with any abrasive material. Just polish it with car wax or some non-abrasive liquid. It's very impressive as it is. And like I said, the lugs and case have very nice, accurate look and feel as well. Year ago the crown guards would have been sensational, now they're just "reasonable". They're a bit too thick from the bottom as usual, but have the good "spiky" and pointy look. I'll definitely modify them myselfat some point, but I wanted to review the watch in "out of the box" condition. What about the "rehaut"... or the "case depth"? Oh yes indeedy... the rep nerds have wasted so much time arguing and nitpicking about the correct depth and look which, in all fairness, are usually wrong on most old Sub reps. Nitpicking and arguing about these microscopic differences is part of the fun... but to me the more important thing is the smooth, metallic look... rather than some 0.1mm difference in case depth. Like I said, most replica Submariners have it wrong. The crystal should "merge" smoothly with the case. This is a picture of my old CN Sub rehaut. Notice how the rehaut is "cut in half", not smooth and straight and looks like it's made of two different parts: For any normal people this is nothing but ridiculous nitpicking, but for us RWG Trekkie bastards these are just standard everyday topics: Here's the "Noobmariner" rehaut compared to the genuine. The difference in depth is minimal, but the crystal sits too low on the rep. The old "TW case" was the only one having it better (it was actually a bit too deep). There are a few new rep 16610 models which have improved in this department too. Despite having probably 0.1mm too low rehaut the smooth, straight and metallic look is what makes this watch shine. It looks "correct" and substantial on the wrist. Now, let's take a look at the arguably the "Best Sub" 18 months ago: This was my old "CN Sub" with modified crown guards and better pearl. The only thing that was quite accurate on this watch was the dial and winding crown. Actually the crown looks good, much better than on most current replicas (including the Noobmariner, I might add)... The rest looks fundamentally wrong: bracelet, case, cyclops too right, etc. etc. What feels funny now... only year and a half later... is that people were willing to pay $400 (or even $600) to modify these reps. Now we get a rep that's light years better for $100... in out-of-the box condition. Difficult to say which has improved more in 18 months though: the quality of the Sub reps... or my photographic skills (sorry for the lousy picture). Conclusion: I have owned so many Submariner reps that I've lost count. Not as many as Tribal (or Tanfoglio... God forbid...) but many nevertheless. I'm not sure if this is the "Best Sub", I'll leave that debate for the Sub Trekkies. But I think it's safe to say this is at least very close to that title in completely unmodified condition. The pearl isn't great and the cg's aren't perfect, the winding crown is a bit too thick. But these are easy mods, the watch has a "good feel and look" (as described earlier) and EXCELLENT dial which are the most important things to me. The only thing that really makes the rep look visually inferior next to the genuine is the difference in luminous abilities. Noobmariner has typical, weakish replica lume. But then again the only unmodified rep watch that I've seen with even remotely impressive lume has been the Omega 4th Gen Planet Ocean. This review was really special and lots of fun to put together, due to the nature of this watch. Thanks again to the kind person who gave this gift to me (you know who you are). I'm not the biggest fan of the basic 16610 Rolex Submariner anymore (and I actually prefer the no-date), but you can't deny the appeal and history of this watch. Everyone should own one, and this watch being a gift, it's obviously a permanent mainstay in my collection. No matter what they'll improve in the future, I'm quite sure this will always be good enough for me. And once again... what really impresses me about this watch is the price: Like I said, it's completely ridiculous at $100! Now let me see... you get an automatic watch, visually 96% Rolex rep with high quality feel and finish for the price of a friggin' plastic Casio! Call the Bobbies, the noobs are spoiled... and the Chinese are taking over! PS: Will they suspect it's a rep? Of course they will, it says "Rolex" on the dial, doesn't it? Put it in a genuine box and they'll have a hard time believing it when you tell them. Thanks for reading.

Oh yeah...I remember that. Someone posted this to the old RWG long time ago. I like "well used" vintage sports watches but this is just too much. I knew Nanuq would like it though... the guy's a well known watch pervert.

I'll update that information. Thanks R11co, appreciated.

I have almost 8' wrist, and being a powerlifter I have thick forearms... and I still consider ANYTHING over 42mm too big (for me). It's not just the wrist size... I just personally find larger watches not so aesthetically pleasing. Perhaps PAMs look nicer because they're on a strap? Gotta admit they don't look that bad at all (on skinny wrists). TAG Link is 42.5mm and it's absolute maximum for me. I'd imagine this watch would look a bit silly on someone with smaller wrists.

You make me jealous. Now that's a legendary watch for sure. Congrats my friend!!!

Yeah, thanks Tribal. I'm aware of the flaws and subdials... this watch is already reviewed in my Omega Guide. Gotta update it with the new SMP chrono.

Wow...fantastic collection of pictures. It seems that the "fat hands" Tudor WM that I have is very accurate. There seems to be many Military models with those hands. Actually the first picture looks exactly like my rep (save the smaller crown). Gen: Rep:

Sorry Ken. About the watches still... I believe these are the "Idealwatches Subs". Hate to say it but they're quality pieces.

Suggestions? Yes, disable the flash immediately, get more light and shoot in the "macro mode". You should get a small flower icon appear in your preview screen. The reps are really good, just as I predicted. M's don't line up on the dial... but the case, crown guards and crown are excellent.

That's really nice... and very close. Personally, I would just change the short GMT hand and enjoy the watch. Not sure if all the non-SEL versions had SWISS T<25 dial though. But that's nitpicking.

That's very beautiful. One of the nicest looking ladies' watches I've seen. Your pics are very good as well. You just need to fix the white balance.

They look surprisingly good reps. If they have ETA movements inside I think they're worth fixing. Any chance of posting bigger and better shots of the Subs?

1. My first rep: Two-tone black Sub. 2. Purchased from: Joshua. 3. I've traded the watch long time ago.

This was one of the most interesting threads in a long time. Thanks to everyone who contributed. We know so much about these reps... the flaws, details, etc... but we don't know anything about where they're coming from... and who makes them... and how? It's all a big mystery, really. Another thing that makes reps fascinating.

I couldn't figure out the date change either... so I had to buy this Tudor:

Enjoy. http://www.watchtime.com/archive/wt_2001_0...2001_06_126.pdf

Whatever you choose... it's a nice watch. I especially like the bracelet which is very high quality.

Beautiful watches & pics XRT. Very nicely done cgs too. Wear them well.

Better play the game here than the gen watch forums, imho. I'm glad to notice that the members haven't posted their reps to gen forums recently.

I wore this one in Friday and Saturday (at my friend's wedding). It's Sunday here already. Probably won't switch the watch before Monday. This is such a classic.

Obvious fake. Not even close.