By-Tor

Wow... that's a nice one!

Personally, I'm not a huge YM fan (gen or rep) but I'm sure you'll make it awesome. I think the guards look good on it already. And another Daytona, huh? You're unstoppable.

Congrats for the purchase Watcher... those DW's are in the league of their own. I'll leave the answer to Randy though.

I'd say the biggest problem is the YACHT MASTER font which is totally wrong. Noticeable? Probably only to real hardcore Rolex WIS. The genuine bezel is platinum and I would think the rep can't quite replicate the feel, weight and overall quality appearance. Other than that it's still a very nice rep. Gen dial:

...is getting ridiculously small. Only 1 left (and a cousin). 2 nicest Oysters (imho):

Absolute killer rep. This continues where Breitling Bentley and TAG Link Chrono left. A must-have.

I actually went to work with the PO... but you're right my friend... I HAD to change to this.

PO for me.

Have fun Puggy!

Happy B-day my friend!!!

Another excellent writeup Z. This answers all the typical questions. I have the old version of this movement (GMT hand under the hour hand). While it's not a real GMT it has worked flawlessly for the last 16 months. I've never excepted functional perfection of a $4000 watch for $180.

Great! Keep us posted... and feel free to ask any questions.

Thanks all. Oh yeah, that Ubi Tudor is wonderful. I wish he had sold it to me back then. Well... now I have my own.

Thanks for verifying that. If they're indeed adjustment holes there should be a simple way to open the mechanism. I've had my watch for two months now and I still haven't figured it out.

Strange problem indeed. I wish I could help. The construction is strange too. I'm sure your local watchsmith can fix that easily (or at least figure out an alternative way to reattach it). Or perhaps ask Andrew to send you just a new bracelet? PS: Can you tighten the clasp from there? Did those parts fell off of the similar hole (as the one I boxed in the picture)? I mean... are these clasp micro adjustment holes? We were wondering about this a while ago.

Yes it IS really nice. Saw the River's sales thread. If this won't sell like hotcakes then the world must be ending. Did I already mention that I need this watch? Damn.

Yes Bill...you're seriously fucked up. But I can put you out of your misery... you need to send me a few of those beautiful watches. Otherwise you're soon to be able to challenge Tanfoglio. Now that would be scary, right?

Big thanks everyone. I thought this was going to be my last watch (and review) for quite a while. But now River just posted pics of the new "Bond" Seamaster chronograph which I absolutely HAVE to get. When will this madness end?

A Tudor Submariner rep? Yes, finally. I always wanted one and I almost became obsessed with it. Why rep and not genuine, because genuines can be purchased for reasonable prices? But just like Ubi says: "Where's the fun in that?" And besides... who would want to read a review of a genuine Tudor? Reps and frankenwatches are much more fascinating. Still, does a Tudor rep make sense, especially when the MBW watches are more expensive than any average Rolex reps... in the $400 range? I think it's a matter of opinion, really. Does ANYTHING we do here make sense? If I like how something looks and I really like the watch I'll just get it, and seeing a rep like this available doesn't happen every day. And since I traded my MBW 1680 I've been without a Sub for quite a while. And for some strange reason I can't stomach wearing a Rolex Submariner rep anymore, it's just so obvious and "run-of-the-mill". I really like the classic design of the Sub, especially the no-date model... and this particular "Snowflake hands Tudor" happened to be my "dream Sub". Perhaps buying a Tudor Sub has something to do with the Panerai craze? People don't know what it is and thus don't suspect a replica. With Tudor you get complete Rolex design without the Rolex prestige/potential fake factor. This is probably not the first choice for the average Joe or Bubba who comes here and buys his quick Sub... just to impress his workmates with a fake Rolex. Tudor (gens and reps) are for real watch nuts like us. Ok, I probably need my head examined because I paid $400 for a Tudor rep. But I get some perverse satisfaction from the forger's art. And I can tell you that this particular model, "Tudor Military Sub" with "snowflake hands" can't be purchased for cheap. According to my research all 100% genuine Military Subs have been priced around $1700 and up... and are constantly climbing up. And yes, mine is a MBW watch with extra parts. The gen uses the case construction of Rolex caliber 5513, with just different hands and hour markers (and basic ETA movement of course). It was advertised on TRC by Watchmaster. From a quick look it looks genuine, but eagle eyed Tudor/Rolex vintage WIS will quickly spot the differences. Winding crown and hands aren't 100% identical, especially the minute hand, which is too thick. First I thought the movement was genuine, but the RWG gang quickly found out that it's actually a ETA 2842 (21.600 beats per hour) movement with just "TUDOR" engraved on the rotor. This particular movement is rough, but according to this Walt Odet's TimeZone article it should be very good and reliable. It's used in genuine Oris, Raymond Weil and Swatch watches. The slower beat is barely recognizable, and what makes it interesting is that there's variation among the genuines. For example THIS "French Navy" version has ETA 2776 movement with BPH of 19.600. The crown guards were off as well, but I modified them myself to look like genuine. More about this later on this review. This is how the ETA 2842 looks inside my watch (rep on the left, genuine movement on the right): The clasp is a non-fliplock Rolex clasp without diver's extension. I'm not sure what kind of bracelet the genuine Military Sub uses, but many owners have put it on a NATO strap. See this site to check some different variations. Here's the caseback. What is the rep and where does it come from? Another good question. The only Tudor Submariner rep we've seen was the Ubiquitous' great FrankenTudor. My rep apparently uses the standard MBW 1680 case, thick bezel and domed crystal from a MBW vintage SeaDweller, which looks pretty much spot on for this no-date model. I seriously doubt this rep is in production anywhere. Someone has changed the dial, hands and movement and created a nice one-of-a-kind watch. PART 2: HOW TO MODIFY THE CROWN GUARDS OF THE MBW WATCHES Since this review is indeed about one-of-a-kind watch it doesn't have much practical value for anyone. So I decided to do something special this time. I had never, ever done any mods and I used to think the guards are impossible to modify properly. And if guys like RedBigJoe and Palpatine can't make them look like genuine then how could anyone else? Then I found these pictures by Sherrington. Those pics inspired me to attempt the modificiations myself. Of course I was hesitant at first... and was afraid that I could ruin my watch. But then I decided to do it anyway. What the hell...no guts no glory! When I received my watch it had too fat crown guards like all MBW watches. Luckily someone had already modified the guards on my watch from the top, and made the surface around the crown flatter. This was good news since I only had to make the guards thinner and reshape the outer surface now. Because of this I didn't need to remove the crown and stem, either. The key to make good looking guards IS TO MODIFY THEM ALL OVER. The top and outside surface are much more important than just drilling the guards thinner from the inside. If the guard shape is way off from the beginning then drilling the insides is not going to help much. Go overboard and you end up having ridiculous looking gaps around the crown... and still have wrongly shaped guards. Whatever you do...don't pay a dime for bastardized "guard shaping mods" like this to anyone. Like I said: Making them flat from the top is the first step. On the MBW watches the guards start to "curve down" right away which makes the appearance dead wrong. Unmodded MBW 1680 is on the left, genuine on the right. See the wrong curve and difference in thickness as well. As you can see the guard length is almost ok and doesn't need to be touched much. The genuine guards curve down very moderately, and more from the "tip" of the guard. From the front view the guards look straight and spiky on all Subs I've seen. Vintage Submariner guards look like "chops". See THIS reference picture to see what I mean. Here's a quick "tutorial pic" of the basics: So what complicated devices I used to modify the guards? Nothing. Absolutely nothing. Just a hand file and some sandpaper. Then I repolished the case with stainless steel polishing paste. Just like Sherrington I looked at the genuine pictures and learned how the gen guards are shaped. Then I just removed the bezel and started shaping up the case with sandpaper. It took a few hours from start to finish. It was surprisingly easy, you just need a lot of patience. My thumb was a bit sore after the treatment though. Using sandpaper is (imho) the best option because it's quite slow, you can move it smoothly across the case and guards... and thus you can easily control even the smallest details of the reshaping process. I don't think it's even possible to "ruin" the watch with this method providing you know exactly what shape you're aiming for. I'd advice inexperienced modders (like me) to stay away from Dremels because making one little mistake can create irreversible damage to the case. I'm not particularly "handy" person and I had never done any watch mods...and yet I got the guards look good on my first try. I'm not saying this because I'm bragging about it, I'm just telling you it's definitely not any rocket science. Anyone could do it... and I really encourage everyone to try the cg mods themselves. Why would you pay someone hundreds of dollars for something so easy and simple? Here's the finished product: Modifying your own watch and getting satisfactory results is extremely rewarding. I think I'd eventually try to source a gen pearl and crown for this watch. Perhaps gen hands too? I'm very happy how the crown guards turned out... and needless to say I'm very happy with my Dream Sub. If you have any questions or suggestions, feel free to ask them in this thread. Thanks for looking (again). Special thanks to Randy for helping me out and answering my questions when I was in the verge of purchasing this watch. I'm really glad I bought it.

Both are definitely genuine. I love that black GMT...killer watch!

Very nice.

Read my Speedmaster Venus review. There should be a link to both Ziggy's movement breakdown and also to Ajoesmith's guide to immobilize the 6'subdial.

Post some pics when you can. Nice to see new members having guts to attempt the mods themselves. I guess the genuine dial would be the best option but I'm quite sure it won't fit the rep. Our dealers don't sell parts separately...and I doubt the "aftermarket" dials are any better.

It's not my watch, it's from a reputable Ebay seller. And besides, what the serial has to do with this? I can post you 10 different pictures of 10 different genuine Subs which all have curved "S".

Yeah, sure. But just like Pug says there are lots of different dials. Look at this one (100% genuine):