RWG Technical

Based on the last location, I would say that is where the package is located. They have to track and register it at each station stop, even in the UK.

Registered mail is tracked everywhere it goes, in fact at each and every station stop, the tracking number and the mail is logged in, and then logged out as it moves to the next station. There is a detailed trail from sender to receiver with any registered package. Do you have a tracking number and if so, what does it show in the system If the mail made it to the UK then Royal Mail would have it logged into the system, if it doesn't show up on the RM site, it never made it in country.

They called me once, over a $5 deposit I sent to veriry another PP address...I told them some wonky BS and they never called back...

Just noted, before I start typing, the text block is sitting at the bottom of the last post, above the text box which is actally below, the floating text box sits where the "Search Topic" and "General Discussion - Go" lettering is located.

Reply window is wonky for me as well. It's split in two, with the control bar in the middle and if I type far enough down, the text becomes invisible behind the control bar...

Excellent info, thanks for this.

Wow, nice clear photo's, that lens is working really well...

@ Samurai Let me know if I can help you out. Lume comes in about every colour of the rainbow, the only issue is cost, having to buy 1 gram for a special project gets expensive... @ Vlydog I think the black lume with the gloss binder would produce that look faithfully.

Wow, very nice. A bit of india ink and orange paint and that bezel would really stand out. Thanks for posting.

Yes indeed, that one is a Genuine ETA. You can clearly see the three notches for the KIF shock spring, as well the alignment pins I showed are not only on the bridge next to the stem, but you will see them sticking up on the other bridges as well. Your pictures clearly show that no pins are visible, so it's an ETA. Thanks for this, it helps bring it all together for everyone. After editing 29 pics, and spending 3 hours getting it written, I ran out of steam and didn't have time to document any more. Thanks again.

@ Dems Thanks so much for the kind words, I really appreciate it, and coming from you it does mean a lot to me. Nice to know that the writing style and layout allows me to accomplish my goal, KISS, and get the message across with one read so that members are informed and able to increase their knowledge and understanding. @ Coolfire Glad to know that you spotted the same things I did, these movements are out there, more than we imagine...

There will probably be a sequel to the Stealth, "Stealth II, return of the black lume...", since I have another case with PVD ready to be put together... I'll probably do it up over the holiday season.

The only supplier I know that sells black lume is RC Tritec. www.rctritec.ch Here's an example of the lume in use... Be forewarned, this is the most hateful lume to apply...remember playing on the beach as a kid, and making sand castles, this lume is the consistancy of the wet sand, it doesn't flow, and is very difficult to put down and achieve a nice finish, as you can see in my pics, it's ok, but certainly not some of my best workmanship.

@ jnkay Seagull movements are legit, but not when they are stamped with "ETA" on them. @ freddy You and me both surprised. The Venus 175 copy that has been around for ages is well produced, clean, oiled, and never breaks down, so I am not sure what went wrong with this one, especially the broken jewel... @ Andy We know it is a Seagull because it was ordered directly from the Seagull Factory and supplied by them. @ lanikai The gear teeth seem ok, Seagull is no crappy manufacturer, I just don't understand the problems noted on this particular movement, consider as well that Seagull is a high end factory, they have a Tourbillon that retails for almost $100K

First up, a big THANK You to member Toad for sending me this movement for teardown and review. So what are we reviewing? This is a Seagull factory fresh sealed movement that is somewhat a copy of the ETA 2824-2. I say somewhat a copy because although at first glance it looks like the ETA, a closer inspection reveals that this is where the similarity ends. If you read and follow the complete post, you will be qualified to identify this movement easily and pick it out as a Fake ETA...so grab a drink, and read along... So first up, lets put the movement on the timing machine and see how well it is adjusted and runs fresh from the factory. You can see the trace shows 4 sets of lines angled to the right, the 4 sets indicates that the Beat is not adjusted correctly (the neutral position of the balance wheel) and the fact that the trace is running to the right indicates that the movement is running fast, about 14 seconds a day fast. So lets start tearing the movement down, and see what it looks like. Check out the balance jewel setting, note this is your first identifier that this isn't an ETA movement. Autowinder plate removed. More disassembly pics. Our first close up inspection, the only way to tell if a movement is serviced, and if serviced and oiled correctly, is to have a look at the jewels, look at these jewels, not very well oiled. This is the jewel for the mainspring arbor, the one with the highest tension and friction in the whole movement, it is completely dry... So the jewels are not well oiled, but why are these two wheels stuck together... Oiling is very critical, there shouldn't be any oil except for in the jewels for the pivots, there should never be any oil anywhere near any of the wheel teeth. Notice the "oil impressions" of the gear teeth on this wheel, there is enough oil on this one gear to lubricate the complete movement, very poor quality control. Another dry jewel, this one is for the second most under tension wheel in the movement, it should be well lubricated. This is the top of the mainspring arbor, it has a small amount of oil, although not enough, at least it's some protection against wear. Mainspring barrel is completly dry, except for this black gunk here and there around the edge. A lack of cleanliness on the most important part of the movement, the pallet arm and jewels. Top half of the cap jewel for the balance, it looks correctly oiled, the bottom jewel didn't do as well, it was completely dry. Looks like they copied the cutouts in the datewheel spring cover, but neglected to make them functional. The cutouts only serve one purpose, they allow datewheels to be changed without any disassembly. This is your second identifier that it isn't an ETA. Balance spring is nice and flat and true and the rings are concentric. The mainspring is about 75% of the length of the ETA one, but it is quite noticeably stiffer. A quick check with the calipers shows that the ETA mainspring is 0.11mm thick, but the Seagull one is 0.13mm thick. Since both movements run at the same speed, 28,800 beats per hour, a shorter mainspring must be thicker, in order to maintain the same amount of power. Shorter is also equal to less run time...note how it fills less of the barrel than the ETA. Another clue that this isn't an ETA, check out the alignmnent pin, on the ETA, the mainplate is drilled for the pins which are located on all of the bridges. On the Seagull, it's a bit of each, a bridge will have a pin on it, as well as a hole for a pin on the mainplate. By comparison the Sellita copy of this ETA has all the pins on the mainplate with all the bridges drilled. What does it mean? NO interchageability... SEAGULL, the pin is part of the mainplate, the bridge has a hole cut into it for the pin. If you see a pin sticking up through a bridge, it's NOT an ETA. This is your third identifier that it isn't an ETA. ETA, all the pins are part of the bridges, the mainplate has all the holes, you will NOT see any pins sticking up on any genuine ETA. Do you remember the odd looking part on this jewel as we took it apart, well now that it's clean we can see exactly the problem, the jewel is broken. I removed the broken jewel, and replaced it with an ETA one, it fit fine and was interchangeable. Old broken jewel next to the new one. So after fixing the jewel, and re-assembling the movement, oiling it correctly, I place it on the timer again, to see how it's running. I haven't made any adjustments, I want to see how it runs after simply servicing it correctly. Remember the BEFORE Servicing readout. Here's the after Servicing readout, before I make any adjustments to the Beat or Rate. You can see that the rate has increased and that the beat is much closer. Do you see how the trace is closer together, that means that the beat is closer to being where it should be. Do you also note that the angle has moved much more towards the right, in fact the movement has gone from +14 seconds per day fast, to an amazing +30 second per day fast. Here are the printouts as the beat and rate are adjusted. And once it's adjusted, the readout shows two lines close together, which means that the beat is correctly adjusted. The rate has been adjusted to +6 seconds per day, which is normal, anywhere from 6-8 seconds per day fast is a good adjustment. Conclusions. What I find very interesting, is that I have seen this movement many times before. In fact, almost all of these movements I have seen in the past, were stamped as "ETA" with the caliber number under the balance wheel. Some of the ETA stampings were very well done and virtually identical to the ETA ones, and some of the stampings are not very well done and easily picked up as fake. Now with the information and pictures you now have at your disposal, and along with the other signs I noted above, you will be able to easily spot this movement impersonating an ETA - when in fact it's a Seagull. Thanks for reading, I hope you find something useful in this post, and a big thanks to Toad for his generosity.

Wow, very well done. Impressive workmanship and ingenuity. Thanks so much for sharing the process and progress, once you get the dial sorted out it will be stunning.

I don't believe you can buy a new pin, you can however make a new one like I do here: New pin fabrication info

It is fixable, but there are a couple of things to consider. 1. You have to get the case opened. 2. The "C" clip that holds the pusher in the case is inside the case somewhere, it has to be found and then re-installed onto the pusher in the notch you see cut out. To do this your going to need some basic tooling, including tweezers, screwdrivers, caseback opener, and a loupe. If you can't find the missing "C" clip with only the caseback removed, the movement will have to come out of the case. I would recommend that you don't wind or use the watch anymore, at least not until you have found the missing part, if it gets into the gears, it will permanently damage the movement.

You did not lie during the transaction, as I already explained, Power Reserve is meaningless, but I guess my original comments which rebuffed all of his claims were ignored. Hopefully the Mods will do the right thing.

So the truth comes out. Threats, especially PP ones are not tolerated around here, totally unaceptable behaviour. Information noted.

Understood, just be very careful when you cut the bezel off, otherwise it's quite simple. Have fun.

Very neat, good job.

The bezel is normally glued to the dial, there are alignment pins on the bezel at 12 and 6, and cooresponding holes in the dial. More than likely the problem is not that the bezel is loose, but that it wasn't glued tightly against the dial face. To fix it, you will have to remove the bezel, can be done with a sharp xacto carefully, then you need to scrape off the old glue, and then glue it back to the dial. I recommend GS Hypo cement because it won't damage the dial face if you get some on it. A few drops around the dial will hold it firmly and tightly against the dial.

It depends on your version of "sealed". What I mean by a sealed ETA is a ETA factory sealed one in a special foil type packaging with inert gas in the packaging. These are the only ETA's that can be considered as serviced as delivered and not needing any work before installation. Many surplus movements are "sealed" by the distributor, but that is not the same as the ETA sealing process.

Good information to remind everyone that ETA most times means = "used old movement in unknown condition, probably needing full servicing to make it run right before you can wear the watch..." They are great movements, and spares are easy to get, but like anything mechanical, if not clean, oiled and correctly adjusted, they just don't run. All the ETA's except for the factory sealed ones, are recycled, even the ones from Ofrei, Jules Borel, and Cousins UK. Once in a while you get one in perfect condition, but that is not very often.