TeeJay

If I had to get rid of one of those, I think I would lose the 16610. If it was a matter of choosing to get a 1680 or a 16610, I would suggest a 16800 as a happy medium between the two

Ahh, I see what you mean about the finish now, and yes, two totally different watch components. I would definitely discuss with Andrew what you want, and that you're not prepared to accept the matte-finished case. I'm personaly very scheptical about all this raid business, and don't believe anything Andrew and Josh say about anything (but that is just my personal opinion and one not shared by many) With regards the M/N issue, I agree, it is different to what you had been discussing, but 'bait and switch' is a fairly common occurence in the rep world. I've previously ordered a 16610 Submariner from another dealer, the sales photo showed classic small 16610 hour markings on the dial. However, what I received, featured Maxi Dial hour markers. The dealer I use doesn't use QC pictures, and it wasn't really a deal breaking issue, but it was a good reminder that that is how this hobby goes sometimes, and it can be a case of rolling with the punches. I used to be very much of the opinion that if someone orders X, they should receive X and not Y, but things like the Submariner Scenario, I've come to tolerate things a bit more... As before with the M/N issue, yes, not ideal that Andrew would source you an N rather than an M if that was what was discussed, but the CQ pics are a double edged sword that give dealers the easy out of "but you approved it..." (personally, I don't like QC pics, I simply take what comes )

First off, welcome to the party 1. There was no mix up. The watch you received was what was in the photo. That it was not the watch you wanted you should have paid closer attention to the pictures and discussed with Andrew prior to telling him to send it. 2. It is a replica watch. It is not going to be 100% like the original. If you cannot accept such minor variations, then I don't think that you will find replica watches a satisfying purchase.... 3. Not at all. Very few people have experienced delays due to these raids, so either the dealers are able to go above and beyond to still provide goods, or there are no raids. 4. Everyone has their own favorite dealers, recommending one is like recommending someone's favorite meal: There's no guarantee another will like it...

Congratulations to Cathy

Never got round to taking the box shots last night... The watch was a birthday present to myself last year, originally with a black dial, the rhodium dial was gifted by JMB as part of another project, but they combined to make the perfect 80s Yuppy Watch, many thanks, J

I'm proposing a comparitive list of rep only serial numbers so folks can compare/identify models/factorys. I'll get the ball rolling with: CQout 5513 3865055 CQout 5517 2950417 Silix vintage sub (case is etched as 16610) R863698

Possibly, but also a case of 'yes and no', and very much a matter of case by case basis, rather than an overall level, from what I can tell. The 16610 and GMTII I have recently received, have no serial numbers or case etchings. The 5513 and 5517 I got a few years back do. I really wouldn't like to say for sure... For me, the thing which appeals about the site is the 100% buyer protection, which is bulletproof

Absolutely so

Not the clearest photo, but it shows the colors fairly accurately (might do a box set photo later if I get bored enough ) I'm going to a wedding tomorrow, and really not looking forward to it... The bride's one of wifey's co-workers, but not someone I would really consider a friend, and I know my invitation is only as a Plus One, rather than an actual friend, yet for some reason, we've been invited to the ceremony, the sit down meal and the reception. I wouldn't've minded the reception, and do appreciate the sentiment in being invited to the whole nine yards, but feel there are more deserving potential guests Anyway... I put this on earlier in the afternoon so by tomorrow, I'll have re-adapted to the feel and weight, rather than spending the day flicking my wrist and looking like some poser, when I'd really just be trying to get used to it again and to shift it comfortably on my wrist

For me, it's not so much a case of feeling ripped off by the prices (which are a very reasonable alternative to the gens ) and I know Andrew and Josh come up with the goods with very few issues, I just don't want to do business with them for other reasons It's like I'm sure everyone knows of someone, who all their friends like, yet for some reason, cannot stand them themselves

Classic, elegant, understated. A stunning build, J

1) If this is so, why have there been so few delays in people receiving goods? I'm not denying raids, but I don't think they can be as problematic as portrayed, or none of us would be getting anything. If a guy on CQout can deliver goods within 8 days, things cannot be as severe as they are being made out to be, as he has nowhere near the kind of factory connections as the Cartel, or even WatchEden, yet still came through... It simply does not add up 100% 2) I agree 100% 3) The amount of people inconvenienced isn't the issue, it's a case of ascertaining just how severely these raids are and will impact on our hobby (at the moment, seemingly not much, despite dealers claiming to have issues) in an honest manner

This is very true, without a 'man on the ground', we don't know what is happen in GZ, but, the truth is, these raids do not seem to be impacting on people receiving their stuff (Rolexman seems to be experiencing more 'admin issues' than short supply issues) It's not a "what if" on sanctions though... As mentioned, on CQout, three negative feedbacks for any reason, and a dealer is toast. I've experienced it during a transaction, when someone else put a negative feedback, the seller got booted, and my money was automatically returned to my account. To me, that's belt and braces protection for a buyer, not simply relying on someone's reputation to deliver on goods ordered. As before, I don't dispute Andrew and Josh's ability to deliver, and as I said to Rolexman a page or so back, Josh is widely acknowledged as the best when it comes to resolving aftersales issues. I have no beef with that reputation, but what I don't lke, is when people are seeminly lied to for no reason, and inconsistent stories are coming out, where it should truly be a uniform "No issue whatsoever," or "Yeah, no stuff for a while..." (and then nothing getting through to anyone) I am balancing their past solid results, with the same history of little white lies, so truly waiting to see what else transpires in this situation...

The legitimacy of this 'crisis' is the whole point. People have been told that there are delays due to raids, and that would be totally acceptable and understandable. However. For the most part, people are not experiencing any delays at all, from a variety of dealers, so the real issue here is if these raids are truly having an impact, or if this is again, just another 'little white lie'. And yes, I totally agree, for the most part, Andrew and Josh do deliver, I would never deny that, but they have also been proven to lie on various matters on numerous occasions, and that is the crux of this matter. I'm not trying to be confrontational, but consider just how truly accountable to the forum admin and mods are these guys? What can the mods actually do, should they not come through with the goods? Sure, they would lose reputation, but other than that, no real sanctions or enforceable refunds. The site I mentioned, uses an inhouse escrow system and very strict feedback system, which is more stringent than used by eBay. If sellers there don't live up to expectation, they face real sanctions, which even one of our own trusted dealers fell foul of through no fault of their own

Exactly, it may not necessarily be to everyone's taste, but they're certainly good enough for me, and if I were feeling dishonest, could still probably pass one off on 'a civilian' as the real thing, as they're not 'that bad'. Okay, the GMT II I last received (Ironically 4 weeks faster than most receipts from said seller ) the triangular dial marker is offset by about half a degree. It would only be the work of a few minutes to decase the movement and tweak it, but as I only bought the watch to serve as a movement donor, I'm not overly fussed about half a degree when I'm the only one looking at it And you're absolutely right, I wouldn't hesitate to order from WatchEden or Narikaa (or from Ken for non-watch items) it's just that my finances at the moment mean I have to buy from the bottom of the barrel, and even then, I'm still getting a Rolex Oyster Perpetual, not a Polex Oxter Prepetval My GMT II? Hey, it's just a factory reject I figure keeping it humorous will keep it clear that I'm just trying to open people's eyes to the situation and keep things lighthearted, rather than just slagging off the Cartel for the sake of it, because as mentioned, for the most part, they do come up with the goods for folks,I think it's just very clear that this whole 'raid' scenario is being milked for all it's worth, and folks're definitely getting lied too

There have been issues with the Cartel for years, which people for some reason, allowed to look the other way on. No one here has been quick to turn their backs on anyone. Now, to highlight the point you made. You bought watches from both, within two weeks, and have both watches. First off, that's excellent that you have your product, but the actual problem, is that you receiving them, proves the point that they are lying about availability issues due to factory raids. It shows that they are simply lying to their buyers, and as discussed a page back, this will inevitably lead to them raising prices, which buyers will likely accept under the pretense of 'hard to comeby stock', when in truth, there is no supply issue whatsoever...

Glad to hear it read well When I joined, there was a big hoo har about 'little white lies' and how the Cartel (at the time, Andrew, Angus, Josh and King) were trying to muscle out smaller dealers via price-fixing tactics. I didn't like what I saw, so vowed to never spend a penny with any of them. A while back, RWI revoked Andrew and Josh's status as 'trusted dealers', yet for some reason, people still keep buying from them I do get it, for the most part, they do produce the goods and get the job done, but at the end of the day, I don't want to do business with someone who felt the need to lie about the availability of a bezel insert. If they will lie about that, what else will they lie about?? When I used a forum trusted dealer (Silix) in each instance, the goods received were either incorrect, unsatisfactory, or flat out never arrived (I still have a Jubilee Bracelet undelivered somewhere out there...) I've bought virtually all my reps from a site called CQout. It uses an inhouse escrow system so the seller doesn't get paid until the buyer has not only received, but is satisfied with the goods and releases payment. Heck, if someone really wanted to shaft a seller, all they'd need do is keep the watch but never release the payment. The feedback system is also ruthless. Three negative feedbacks, for any reason, and the seller is automatically booted from the site. Just by comments in this thread alone, under that system, Josh would either be gone, or on his last warning... TD WatchEden used to trade on CQout, and fell foul of this rule just thanks to 'n00b negatives' that the watch wasn't 1:1 to the gen, or such similar pathetic comments. I will admit, these are more the budget end of the spectrum, but I've never been trying to impress anyone or pass anything off as genuine, I just have a thing for watches, and if it should say Rolex/Omega/Panerai on the dial, for the sake of aesthetics, I prefer that it still says so rather than being a sterile homage dial

It's a very commonly used phrase in Cantonese, in context, it's more akin to how gangsta rappers use "motherfucker" every other word, rather than the intent behind saying "go fuck your mother" to someone Either way, it would ensure the point about the refund is understood

That has been precisely my point all these years, sadly, in the Chinese businessman's scheme of things, lying to gwai loh is not lying. Nor is it lying if one is not caught in the lie. They genuinely do not think they are doing anything wrong. Regardless of QC pics, given Andrew's reputation, I would expect the watch to have arrived within two wees If I were you, I would send a request asking for either a valid tracking number, and if one is not forthcoming, I would cancel the order and demand a full refund (adding the phrase "Dew neh loh moh!!!" . If he can't fill your order, he should just say so and let you take your money elsewhere. If you do ask for a refund, I bet you get offered another item instead of said refund Fingers crossed for you, amigo

They have been for a long time, hence why I've never purchassed from any dealer (past or present) in all my time here as a member [Edit to clarify] Any Cartel Dealer. I missed that out before being quoted

Despite my anti-Cartel stance, I will willingly concede that Josh is certainly regarded as one of, if not the best, for when it comes to dealing with afterservice issues, and I fully expect that he will (eventually) sort things out for you My issue with this situation, is it highlights that these dealers do not deserve the loyalty they are given, cannot be trusted to be honest (about anything business related) and simply view this community's members simply as a cash source...

$2000 won't mean shit to him in terms of loyalty return, all it means is $2000 extra in the bank. Just the same as the previous $2000, and the next $2000. Your business ethics and Chinese business ethics could not be further apart, and people really need to wake up to the fact that shopping from the Cartel, is being a fish in a barrel. All is well for a while, but it's when these litte white lies crop up, that they show their true colors... I hope you get a satisfactory resolution

Just being honest, which some folks round here don't appreciate when it comes to the Cartel

More than likely yes. From a dealer's point of view, getting a watch repaired are costs (which may or may not lead to repeat custom) new orders are direct 'cash in hand',so it's no surprize that they are taking care of cashflow first. As mentioned above, these guys are not people's personal friends (regardless of how they may behave or lead people to believe) but are guys with the ethics of a snakeoil seller. If they don't get caught out, they don't consider it lying, just 'business' I had a similar experience a few years back with a tattoo artist who I had allowed to do work on me while he learned. As time went on, his prices increased from "just the cost of ink and needles" to full studio rate. On the one hand, I didn't mind this as the quality of his work was excellent, but on the other hand, studio rates requires studio overheads, not someone working from home... When I went to begin the outlining of the dragon's head on my back, I was told that he hadn't been able to prepare the stencils by hand, and would need to purchase a thermofax machine before we could do the dragon's head. The only problem, was unless he did more tattoo work on me anyway (for the money) he wouldn't be able to get the thermofax to do the dragon's head So I got some other work done which would have needed doing eventually anyway, but the point is, I was simply being used 'as cash', not respected as a friend or valued as a customer. In a later session, we got 90% of the dragon's head outlined, before he had to retire from tattooing due to back problems... Okay, so I have an unfinished outline on my back, but when cash allows, I'll be able to go to an artist 10 minute walk from home and get it finished off, he, on the other hand, won't be tattooing anyone else in any meaningful way