TeeJay

I guess it's just a matter of personal taste. I tried on a gen SFSO in a jewellers, as I was thinking about getting a rep for my collection. My immediate feeling upon getting it on my wrist? I just didn't like it. Not one bit. Now, you may think, "But you didn't like PAMs the first time you tried them..." and,that would be quite true. I didn't. But. The thing that I really disliked about the SFSO, as gorgeous as it is, was, compared to the case size, the actualy dial size was rather small. Almost like sticking a Submariner dial, in a Planet Ocean Case. I like big dials for practical, as well as aesthetic reasons, so quite simply, the watch failed to meet my prime criteria. Absolutely lovely watch, just not for me at all. As I said, just a matter of personal taste Back to wrist checks, here's a shot I promised you last week, and all I can say is 'me luv you long time' (Or should that be, me ruv you rong time? ), as, having worked up the nerve to put the springbars in, this is what I'll be wearing for quite a while

Absolutely, and I quite agree, what people can sometimes lack, is the perspective to appreciate that different countries and cultures have different economies as well. This was what my friend was saying about Thailand. That someone could spend the night in a 5 star hotel, for the equivelent of

As mentioned, this is someone who is extremely sensitive (and to a huge range of things) I had a look into the rock watches, but, they were for the ladies, and this would be for a guy... I think the best option might be something in full titanium. It didn't have to be a rep or even a huge name, just something he could actually wear

I've been told, that, although sweatshop conditions and pay are pitiful by western standards, westerners often forget the very different social conditions in the countries involved, and, to those working in a sweatshop, that is a job which puts food on their table (not much, but it's better than starving to death on the streets) One of my friends used to visit Thailand as a sex tourist (he now lives and works in Tokyo), and he pointed out just how cheap the cost of living in such countries actually is, so sweatshop wages, are not so bad compared to the cost of living. Of course, I only have his word to go on, but, it didn't seem an unreasonable statement, given how much he said other things were costing. PS Ken, I might have to invest in some of your Nikes soon

A bit late, I know, but I couldn't resist: "Someone stop the banjo music!"

I don't remember you getting that one, bro Absolutely awesome watch, though That said, I do fear you may find it to be a none too versatile watch... A tan colored strap can move it away from 'tactical' to 'casual', but, I've not really seen a PVD luminor which looked 'smart'... Ever so, awesome watch, I'm sure it'll get plenty of good wear

No problem, I'll be interested to see the photos. Learning curve is maybe using a less well-known dealer, and not getting something as expected. There're established members who say they now prefer to only buy from other members, as they have a better idea about what they're getting, and, if someone's a forum supporter, that should be a positive sign, so, for you to have this kind of experience with a forum supporter, is worrying. Best of luck with things

Couldn't stant it any more... Had to put it back on

I felt like a change from the 127 today, so wearing this old favorite combo:)

Precicely, which is why I think Ztech should take the bull by the horns and post pictures of the watch detailing it's condition, and compare them to the PMs which describe it's condition. No one deserves to get scammed like this, least of all, by a forum supporter.

Okay, if you've got PMs, that will prove that he said the hands weren't scratched. Yes, hands can get scratched during re-luming, but, not to the extent that they render the watch unwearable. I wouldn't like to say how quickly sales photos disappear, it rather sounds like they were removed to cover his tracks. I have to admit, if the scratches are as bad as you describe, I'm surprized they didn't show up on the sales photos, but, that's neither here nor there, as he obviously told you that they weren't scratched (within acceptable limits for a relume) As you say, he shouldn't've lied to you when you asked him. As for him being a supporter, that doesn't mean a thing. You have the watch, you can take photos of it, and post them, as well as the PMs, which should state the condition of the watch, compared to the condition of the watch you received. If he's sending you the CG screw, that must mean he knew it wasn't on the watch when he sent it. Another black mark. Don't let a tiny screw be held over your head as leverage. If you're not going to wear the watch anyway, what difference does it matter if the CG is screwed on? Yes, if you send the watch for repair, I'm sure a replacement screw could be fitted, but, that's not the point. The point, is that a supporter of this forum sold you a watch with badly scratched hands, a scratched dial, and, a CG which was missing a screw. That, is an outright scam, my friend, plain and simple, and not the behaviour which is tollerated here. Whoever they are, they'd be wise to accept the watch back and refund you the money, or, I suspect the admin and mods will be rather displeased... This is a community, where folks are supposed to look out for each other, and trade fairly, not ship out things they know to be defective. My advice to you is take some decent photos, post them up, and name and shame. If the watch is as bad as you say, then no one else is going to tollerate a supporter who pulls such tricks on a newcomer. Best of luck

Were the scratches not visible on the sale photos of the watch? Same question about the mark on the dial... Please tell me you didn't buy the watch without at least seeing a photo of it... If the person is refusing to take it back, then the route is 'name and shame'. Take pictures, post them, and give the name. Doesn't matter who it is, how desperate they were for the money, or anything. Ripping off people is not cool, and people need to know that they can't be trusted. If you can turn it into a project watch, or even have it repaired, it might not be a complete loss Best of luck

Just bought this classic track to mind My Favorite Waste of Time - Owen Paul (Ignore the movie, just enjoy the music )

Well said, Ken, and, with the boldened text, likewise. I do not want to win supporter status. My support of this forum will be from nothing but my own efforts of support. I just wanted to say what the forum means to me

A respected seller selling an Asian movement as Swiss?!?! I'm shocked!! Shocked and apalled at such fraudulent behaviour!!

RWG means being able to learn new things on a variety of subjects, not just watches, from a great variety of people.

The ones I thought of, still had an SS caseback, which was why I thought abuot titanium.

To be honest, I'd reply to a PM like that. Unless it is actually abusive, then 'poor manners' can be ignored, and, as I've already taken the time to read the PM, not answering it would make that time wasted. If someone is actually abusive and vulgar, then yes, ignore and report. I think the distinction needs to be what constitutes 'rude'... Poor manners are one thing, outright vulgarity is another. What one person considers a reasonable quick request for information, another might find offensive, and, what might offend the recipient, might not have been intended to offend by the sender.

Are the scratches something that someone passing you in the street would notice? Or sitting next to you on the bus/train? I understand totally the disappointment of receiving something which is less than perfect. But, please remember, these are not gen watches, they are only reps, and, often are less than perfect. Even gen watches can have imperfections. I once saw an Omega 2531.80 on sale in a jeweller, where the bezel insert not only had a scratch in the color, but, had a raised ridge in it as well, (about the same appearance as if a hair caught under a piece of clingfilm) The watch was still not in the window a week later, so either someone was happy to buy it, or, it was removed. If you're that unhappy with the watch that you wouldn't wear it outside, send it back to the person you bought it from. If the scratches are that bad, they should have disclosed them prior to sale, and they should have been visible on any photos of the watch shown. Personally, I'd say give it a little time. If, after 48 hours, you still feel the scratches are hideously noticeable, send it back, and name and shame the member for selling a watch in an unacceptable condition. If, on the other hand, you find you aren't really noticing the scratches, then keep it. Best of luck PS I hope the crown guard wasn't on upside down

I think that a documentation of the mod/repair process is certainly more feasable than the idea of an escrow service. The only reason I say that, is because with the escrow service, there will be two opinions about the watch. The owner, and, the observer. I've seen comments on TZ where someone criticized a gen Rolex because the hands weren't perfectly lining up with the dial markings. Some people have unreasonably high expectations of things. I've seen a photo of a gen PAM, where the quality of the lume (in terms of consistency) was appalling. Again, a gen product, falling way under what some would consider acceptable. The level of work provided by those like Ziggy surpasses that level. His lume work is better than gen. The problem that creates, is that having seen such work before, that is all they will accept. Now, say Mr A sends his watch to Ziggy for a relume. Mr B checks the watch on completion, and thinks that the work has been carried out to a satisfactory standard. Mr A could still disagree (unlikely, but possible) I think the only way an escrow service could work, is if the client provides a specific 'check list' of what they want done, and how they want the results to appear. That would at least provide the observer with something to specifically look for. But, that's hellishly time consuming. A documentation of the process would be quicker and easier. Yes, this is the internet, and the ability to steal material to pass off as one's own exists, but, sometimes, things have to be taken on faith. The title of the thread includes 'collectors and scammers', so I will use them to illustrate the point. When people look at a collector's site, they take it on faith (because of the reputation of the collector) that the watches on display are the ones which will be sent. There have been instances though, where collectors have received new stock of X watch, which has a minor variation to the shown illustration, and, when people received them, they complained (rightly so) that the watch received, was not the same as the watch advertized. Were the collectors a) trashed and barred for it? Or b ) where they given the benefit of the doubt? That's right, Option B. They were given the benefit of the doubt. If collectors are to be given the benefit of the doubt about the 'sales catalogues' they provide, (even when there have been proven cases of alternate stock, or un-serviced watches sent out) then the same benefit of the doubt has to be given to a modder's 'documentation portfolio'. It has to be an even playing field for all who provide services and product to this community. It is unfair to say that X's work is above question, and doesn't need to prove anything to anyone, but Y's work is nothing short of incompetant, and that they have to prove everything they do. There have recently been several topics requesting modding services other than Ziggy, and those requests were mostly shot down by the peanut gallery, despite the fact that Ziggy's workload is reported as so much, that he is forced to turn away work. That proves that there is a need, no, a demand, for other watchsmiths/modders to step up and offer services to people. But. Given the air of negativity and suspicion which such people are treated with, is it any wonder there are so few stepping forward? Why should people offer services to others, knowing that they face such schepticism? Demands for 'proof of work', for example, will do nothing to encourage people, and more to drive them away/remain silent.

Thanks for the options, guys, those're some great suggestions

Thanks for the information. Clear coat might work on the buckle and back (or partially so, as you point out) but, if the watch itself is also metal, the whole watch would need to be coated That's why I wondered about PVD coatings. I wondered about the titanium option, but wouldn't want her to buy something based on that, only to have him then react to it as well

One of my friends is looking to get a watch for her partner for his birthday, and asked if I could suggest anything. The problem, is that he has severe allergies. Any kind of metal in a watch is likely to bring about a severe nickel reaction (think Vampire wearing silver ) I suggested a bund strap, which would keep a watch back off his wrist, but, there's still the issue of the buckle. I'm figuring this really only leaves ceramic options, like the Chanel range. I wondered about PVD, and said I would enquire, as to if the PVD coating itself acts as a barrier against contact, with regards nickel allergies, or, if it is just considered 'part of the metal', or, if it is chemically similar enough to trigger a reaction itself. There's no hurry, I'm just soliciting opinions which I could pass on. Thanks in advance [Edit to add] I just thought: Would titanium contain nickel?

If that's the model of car I think it is, I saw one once on a program, and the owner said that when it came to scavenging the parts, to get the correct sweep of the windscreen wiper, they had to use a wiper moter from a JCB