omni

Lazarini: We were all newbie rep. collectors once, and it seems we all go through the same manifestations of the hobby, (initial excitement-passion-disappointments-reflections-settledowntime). Stepping back and figuring if you can see the "forest for the trees" from time-to-time is a natural progression. As we see for some like ubi, the hobby is much different in reasoning than for those that don't mod their watches. With the better replications and increase in price, it does get harder to justify rep. collecting when the super-reps are approaching good genuine price ranges. But its a hobby like any other, everyone has a different justification meter, and for some its not a waste of money/time, rather its money/time well spent for the pleasure it brings. I don't think any of us here still on the rep. forums who have switched to gens. even consider leaving the forum. Its the exchange of information, keeping up with the latest, (since rep. collectors seem to have more horological knowledge than genuine buyers), and the great communities that you don't want to part with. Feels good to impart some accumulated knowledge to people just coming up in the hobby even though you no longer are in it. We have to owe some due to the replicas as they allow a lot of people to finally transition to genuines through the appreciation. And never say never to reps. because you will always eat your words in the end. There will always be that one watch that you've just got to try out sooner or later.

No trades Lani, I'm right above Wailea, South Maui, was muggy but interestingly not today. It rained like the drought was done today (buckets), but 3 miles north dry and sunny. Funny, we get used to it here don't we, but mainland folks just can't fathom it pouring rain all day as its funneling off the mountain (Haleakala) in one place and the sun is shining overhead sometimes. Land of rainbows all day.

But the ones Timeshops has in the inventory are only $147 facsimiles, they are not real tourbillon movements, just "open heart" balance wheels faking the Tourbillon look of the Bell and Ross BR 01. At least it looks close to the genuine, other real tourbillon movement replicas don't even come close. There are a lot of replicas of $100K watches that people like to have in their collection just because they admire them (think of the PP Sky-Moon), but wearing them as if they were real in public, I agree is probably not realistic, also since most of these type of genuine watches are "safety-deposit-box" items that never see the light of day.

Yes you are getting better, you youngster you! (compared to offshore and me!). Just like fine wine - better with aging. Best Birthday wishes to ya!

Thanks for sharing. Thus the reason for all the "multi-millionaire guy with the Timex watch" stories you keep hearing or better yet, $23 Billionaire Sam Walton (founder of Wal-Mart) who always drove an old Ford pickup to visit his stores. He didn't mind the wealth, just the ostentatious trappings of it.

@emuozz: Exactly the same for me, the PP Calendario. White gold with grey dial is awesome too. I've had the pleasure of trying this on a couple of times in the ADs at the Wynn, Las Vegas and at Ben Bridge in Ala Moana Center, Honolulu. It looks so much better in person!

Two different manufacturers, two different Tourbillon movement designs, that is the only reason for the four transfer gears in the Seagull movement of River's which was first to come out. Homer's uses a later different movement made by Million Smart. If you want to see a great watch made by Seagull itself, the movement maker, check THIS ONE out with the added complications.

@troaa: I think where a lot of the confusion comes from is that the Chinese have copied (homaged) the original Blancpain flying "duck" tourbillon movement and have an actual flying tourbillon movement of their own that looks sneakily a lot like the BP tourbi. But its a real working tourbillon and not some exposed "open-heart" balance wheel that rep. manufacturers used to (and still do today) use for mimicking a tourbillon cage, plus they can punch out thousand of these because of the highly skilled and cheap labor market. Unfortunately, rep. manufacturers have purchased these asian made genuine flying tourbillon movements and placed them in high-end name-brand replica cases which is a travesty, since the movements themselves are highly complicated in labor (and cost) to make, even for the Chinese. In some people's mind (including mine) it is a waste of a perfectly good tourbillon movement, as now it will always be viewed as a cheap "fake" since the real genuine high-end watch brand tourbillon looks nothing like the replicas that try to replicate the original. I challenge anyone to find me a replica tourbillon that even comes close to an original it represents. The Chinese tourbillon is a great movement all on its own (albeit without the fine typical genuine tooling on the gears) and I would urge you to purchase one with no brand name on the dial or case which is still possible. It is still champagne high-end mechanical gear-art at beer prices if you know where to look. The Chinese made this flying "duck" tourbillon (Seagull ST80) which closely mimics the looks of the famous Blancpain to a tee, unfortunately, it was made with the tourbillon cage at 6 and the original Blancpain tourbillon cage at 12. Why can't the rep. manufacturers just simply try to reverse the movement? It's because the guts are completely mirrored backwards (isn't that the way between East & West anyway!). To put the stem on the left hand side and flip the movement 6 to 12 is not so simple as the gears are all reversed and you'd be looking at the back of the tourbi cage. To try and take that apart and reverse is not worth the effort for the Chinese flying tourbi movement manufacturers (Million Smart & Seagull) as they have sold hundreds of thousands of these tourbillon movements to every low-end genuine manufacturer around the globe, why change a good thing to just sell a few to the rep. manufacturers and face lawsuits of copyright infringement from Blancpain? That's why you see these same movements in "Swiss, German, French, US, and quasi-euro manufacturers" tourbillon lineup at stupid prices of 4X8 times the price of an exact same $500 no-name watch you could pick up here or on ebay. These quasi-genuine watch assemblers buy the movement from China and then claim the watch is assembled in "Germany-France-Italy-US" or elsewhere (which could be true), given a hokey euro-name (i.e: Stauer, Aeromatic, Steinhausen, Tourous, Francois Rotier, Herrmanns, Stuhrling, Ticino, Auguste Galan, etc....... and counting) and marketing claims that it follows the old world heritage (to give it that euro flair) of the original tourbillon invention. In their defense, I will say they usually give you a 1-year warranty which the $500 sellers won't but for the inflated price its not worth it. A no-name asian self-wind carousel tourbillon watch, $500, a Blancpain carousel tourbillon, $67,000, both genuine. You decide which you would buy. Not a hard choice for the less-than-millionaire everyday watch aficionado. That is why you see this same Chinese flying/centre tourbillon subject discussed on genuine watch forums as well (TZ, Watchuseek). Its a real movement in the generisti's eyes, not a copy! The generisti buy it at the inflated prices, lucky you are a member of a rep. board and know the truth behind the hype!

FIVE RULES FOR MEN TO FOLLOW TO A HAPPY LIFE: 1. It's important to have a woman, who helps at home, who cooks from time to time, cleans up and has a job. 2. It's important to have a woman, who can make you laugh. 3. It's important to have a woman, who you can trust and who doesn't lie to you. 4. It's important to have a woman, who is good in bed and who likes to be with you. 5. It's very, very important that these four women do not know each other.

You've come a long way since joining the forum Lani, especially in picture-taking and reviews, my hats off to you as a info asset for your contributions. Just a great watch you got there, enjoy!

Lucky you live Hawaii. Anyplace else is a nice place to visit, but I wouldn't want to live there. Every time you leave the islands and come back, you do reevaluate........and appreciate it more.

Well I for one find Richard's thread satisfying that there are several aficionado WIS in the forums that hate the watches I own and wear. It helps solidify that my individuality is secured over many years of maturing, kudos to you if you've grown up faster than I. I'm considered a "late bloomer boomer'. Was not always this "secure in myself" but winding through life's minefield (and getting blown apart a few times) helped achieve that status. Where what I thought was looking like a clown was actually me stupidly worrying about other people's opinions while unconsciously forming my own tastes, which was the underlying war of security vs. insecurity in one's self. Where do you remember in your timeline that you stopped listening and learning from your parents & peers and flew all on your own decisions? Its nice to hear the differing opinions and reasons behind them, the perception in another individual's eye to what is true art can perplex me, I guess its the same as the art of horology, one man's crap is another man's treasure. Do these differing opinion's effect your decision and tastes? If you are open minded and not set in your ways then they should. I guess I liken it to a movie where I always try to read the critiques after seeing the trailer. It does tend to steer me away from wasting time on stinkers and towards enjoying new great classics. So how I perceive what is ugly or beautiful in life is all my own decision, but how I got there was probably considering all the pros and cons, including other's thoughts on the subject. Its fun that we can agree to disagree and poke fun at each other. What do my watches say about me, that I have my own drummer I'm marching to, in step with the out-of-step. Gad you guys all have horrible tastes!

A long winded bloggy post again, sorry, but good support why never to drink and drive if evidenced by my wandering typing. Interesting taste thread that you started here Richard, seeing as my next planned purchase is an all black watch, not necessarily PVD coated but all black down to the metal bracelet. It has touched a nerve in my watch collective brain. I have more in common with subzero1 (except for the young and beautiful people comment as I can only reminisce) as to me the watch is more of a useful accessory for the certain situation than a complete obsession to the latest greatest fashion. Everyone's tastes are different and so the choices offered by watch manufacturers reflect that, a watch for every age, persuasion, situation, and taste. One person's abomination is another person's holy grail. Taste in watches are no different than any other item you care to delve into; whether it be cars, wine, women, song and food. It will all change with age and income. I'm older in physical age (61) than almost all members here, but obviously not in maturity according to my wife. But I can attest that just getting really interested in watches late in life over the last four year has taken me on a maturing journey of tastes that has spanned from going youngster gimmick, to young man sports, to mature elegant dress and every irreverant fad type style in between. Eventually I had to stop and appreciate the real genuine watches that I was purchasing all these replica "homage" watches for. Thus it has resulted in paring down all the watches to just a half dozen genuines that I honed my tastes on over 4 solid years of rep. collecting. What has surprised me is what I thought I would never be drawn to in certain watch styles has changed quickly over time as I learn more about horology and history, wore reps of watches I though I admired, held them in my hands at ADs. Also surprised at what turned me off on some watches because of the complete lack of historical chops of makers charging ridiculous prices for new fad designs, Hublot comes to the forefront as I lost all respect for the brand, not for the design, but for what it has come to represent for me, a blatant ripoff of the public. I'm glad to say that their clout with the genuine collectors has been greatly diminished by all the cheap watchmakers making copycat designs. Seems every Tom, Richard, and Harry has a clock out that looks surprisingly like the HBB. But, as an oxymoron, a rose gold HBB happens to be the only rep. I own at the moment. I can wear gold, I'm old, look the part, what more can I say. Although Rolex has suffered the same fate as HBB is going through, Rolex has been around for so long that they can weather the Invicta/Timex type copiers. So we all dislike certain brands for different things, as Nanug of the North so stated about Panerai, except Rolex has more of the same thing models than I think Panerai. Its funny Nanug, Rolex was the "look at me" watch until just recently. One of the best Panerai I saw on a business associate's wrist was fully beaten up over the last four years as his daily beater, it looked great aged-in-place. I'm currently open to pretty much all designs, including bling watches (although I'd have to think twice about how many diamonds I could stand.) I like By-Tor's choice with just diamond markers. I'm into understated elegance in my watches right now, but as I age even more and get more curmudgeon I won't care what you and the other young punks think or for that matter, I won't think at all. I'll move on in time with my arthritic wrist decorated with age inappropriate demi-size white ceramic Chanel or 60 mm pocket watches with wrist straps that offset ever dimnishing eyesight, although for By-Tor's frame I wouldn't argue with that size. Then again, maybe trade it all in for one elegant breguet/patek to be buried with. I pick something up from all the opinions, take or leave what I want and refine my personal taste even further. So what's so bad about the Graham crono fighter anyway or the Russian diver it mimics? If you drink beer, the crown is an instant handy bottle opener. And to that end, to each his own.

Lord Rasta, you have great taste. I'm a big fan of Cole Haan and their sub-brand Bragano but my personality quirk is boots. Lived in the Sierra Nevadas and Rockies for so many years before moving to an island that I never got out of the boot habit. So its lots of Tommy Bahama mixed in with a paniolo (Hawaiian cowboy) weird fashion sense. BTW Mike, you might find this close to your Cabo heart, two of these pair were purchased at Rogers Boots in the Puerto Paraiso Plaza in Cabo!

Welcome back fellow islander with fast cars.

I'm game. Come to Maui, the Superferry is running now.

Price-wise, the obvious choice for a large cased tourbillon is River's Fiber Radiomir Tourbi. I personally like the Francois Rotier tourneau case better although I don't agree with their marked up pricing for it. But isn't that the same for all watches? You are not paying for how much you know it costs them to make the thing, you are paying for the design. If we all based our decision purely on the price and knowledge of what it takes to make them, no one would buy an HBB, rep or genuine. Back to, "its what you like, the passion for it and how much damage to your wallet you can bear". Not an easy choice.

I think it all comes down to what you like since you are buying a real watch, dress tourbillon or sports tourbillon, (unless you get a tourbi that is extremely badly posing as a real Breguet, AP, JLC, etc. tourbi in which case I will speak my mind and say you are wasting good money). $1,551 USD / 999 Euro is a lot to pay for a handwind Chinese tourbi movement although that is one of the better designed sports type cases I've seen, its quite handsome. You've seen the price for a good standard dress non-branded chinese tourbi, power reserve, $550 USD / 355 Euros. If you want to pay for that different sporty tourneau case, carbon fiber dial, then go for it, because the extra cost is for the design. Never mind about the name on it, they are all made up anyway as a fake history to sell the asian tourbi watch. Although you are soliciting opinions here, I reiterate, its all a personal choice because you are not buying a rep., you are buying a real complicated watch movement, so don't let others opinions knock your tastes. If you are not into small 38 mm dress type watches, then this might be the one that fits your wrist. Regards

Hopes this helps in your discussions here. I think you needed some closeups of a gen 104 for comparison, I tried to get similar angles as your photos. Sorry for the reflections, just couldn't get the right angle tonight. @mjmurphy926, your case looks fine, date font looks close and mag very good, of course the concentric rings are something you will have to live with unless you change the dial. That DSN dial looks mighty close to the gen. so your plan to combine the two if the parts fit seems like the way to go. Regards.

Movement is definitely not German made but Asian. The quality would be the same as you could get from our dealers, however you could not get this centre tourbi from our dealers for $500-$600. They would charge more as it would cost more for them to procure.

Definitely better than the run-of-the-mill tourbillon movement, but what's run of the mill about a tourbillon, even $500 level Chinese? The one pictured is the more expensive Asian center tourbi usually selling for $1,200 + as opposed to the Asian "carousel" tourbi that goes for $599 most of the time after a search. The asians haven't yet copied more than the single axis tourbi, more than one axis is asking for a $50,000 + price tag, if the Chinese do it they will still probably command at least many X thousand dollar prices. Good starter information from Pix's review of his recent tourbi purchase. Educate yourself if you're interested.

If these are your pictures of the movement of your watch, can you confirm that they have solved the problem of the missing fine adjuster on your latest acquisition as your movement appears to have one now? With that, the elimination of the saw toothed central rotor pin and the engraved rotor, this movement is getting closer to the gen in appearance. Then the last thing to correct would be the fat Hublot logo on the plate under the rotor but your movement seems to missing that? Great looking watch, wear it well.

Mid-30's "old man" watch Geez! Wait until you get to the age where you can't make out the dial without reading glasses. Thus, my 61st birthday purchase next month I plan on replacing my beater 4 year old Luminox Pro Diver with something brighter. At night the tritium H3 markers are great when traveling, especially if your side of the hotel bed doesn't have an alarm clock you can view at night because your wife always wants that side of the bed with the clock! But I want an automatic daily beater instead of the majority of tritium H3 quartz watch makers offerings. I'm going for a genuine BALL FIREMAN NIGHT TRAIN, plain, simple, boring, only 11 tall X 43 diameter but night readable for the truly "old man". I thought I was done with replicas but seems the super-rep quality is starting to peak my interest again and I'm seeing some that I might like to try. Still have my one rep., the HBB from the first Angus offerings last year and it is still working perfectly.

Keep doing your good deeds, trust it will be returned to you in many ways and from perfect strangers. One shouldn't always be looking for direct recognition for good things you do as you may then receive recognition for bad things you do in life. Its a circle, you should care for your fellow human beings. "The philosophical explanation of karma can differ slightly between traditions, but the general concept is basically the same. Through the law of karma, the effects of all deeds actively create past, present, and future experiences, thus making one responsible for one's own life, and the pain and joy it brings to him/her and others. The results or 'fruits' of actions are called karma-phala." - Wikepedia

Similar thinking as Toadtorrent, in that many members I've seen, including myself, display different personality traits in each of the different forums as that community will warrant. I then can choose where I feel most comfortable having exchanges with particular members since they will display a behavior that best suits my mood at the time, snarky or civilized. I will add, Offshore is a great contributing member in any of the forums he has frequented.