jimcon11

Please report your findings

I totally agree that it's splitting hairs....the 50s Rolex hands are intricate as all hell. Yet they fit the dials so perfectly and they've made me a huge stickler for proper sized and detailed hands in all watches . I'll see a beautiful old JLC and then the hands dont reach the chapter ring--what fresh hell is this? We all key in on different details so a community like this one is essential. I thought the 6204 pencil-set minute hand was identical to the 6538 Mercedes-set minute hand (like on your big crown), but looking closer I see the lume plot and really the whole hand is a bit slimmer on the former. The one you have on your 6204 now is pretty damn close. The pencil hour hand I have is for ETA so I'll get it reshaped and relumed here shortly, just PM me your address.

Awesome 6204. Now that I've been here a little while I have a lot more appreciation for the slow opportunistic style of build where you just accumulate parts and let it finish on its own time. Results in a more cohesive end product. And in this instance it's cool to see your decision process and a lot of parts that are old/rare/unknown origin that add up to a really unique build. You mentioned the hands being not quite right and I'd agree for the hour and minute at least. When I search 6204 I see plenty of Mercedes hands come up so I'd venture that Slays handset could be perfect on this watch. If you are dead set on the pencil hour hand I have a spare here from Raffles that I could widen out the lume plot on and send you.

@slay As cool as the white seconds hand is, I kind of prefer gold I see that it's gold on the underside.. do you think removing the white with some paint thinner would reveal a gold matching the other hands? I've found seconds hands hard to polish because of the little rivet holding the post so I'd rather not try unless you know what's underneath.

fall

I find the crisis of authenticity hilarious. The experts are getting better along with the replica parts so I don't think the prices will ever fall that much, but it's funny how most in that community are just raring to pounce on someone at any sign of a fake. I will always stick to Ebay and thankfully forums like this one have given me the knowledge and ability to judge quality in watches. Whether it's original or aftermarket isn't a major concern of mine if it looks and feels the part.

@Bart Cordell just fantastic I received my handset too and they are just right, can't wait to get started on another watch.

As far as I know there isn't evidence of even a single person being harmed by their radium watch, anywhere in history. That's kind of astounding. All we have is some fairly alarming dosage math that doesn't seem to square with real world experience. Maybe because a full-body dose as outlined in the safety data is a lot more deleterious than a point source mainly on the wrist. Or maybe people have been affected and it's just impossible to single out radium as the cause of some metastatic cancer. If that's the case, It would take huge advances in how well we understand cancer for a causal link to be established. For now, it seems like the general precautions established long ago have done a good job at keeping people out of danger, so I'm not going to worry. It would be great if there was a second radium panic though, it might make some of my favorite watches actually attainable.

Zero to hero for me is UG, specifically the Polerouter. I originally thought it was such a brutal and overdesigned hunk of metal, totally opposed to the simple elegance and legibility of the military and sports watches I tend to gravitate toward. It was the last watch I would pay attention to for a long time. Then the right picture in an ad (attached below) totally changed my mind. The way the different finishes of the case, dial, hands, inner bezel, work together is unlike anything else; its otherworldliness echos midcentury abstract art. Looking further into them I found out about their legit history as pilot's watches and the exceptional quality of their microrotor movements. I used to think I hated artsy "dress" watches, but as I age I'm realizing that it's the dress watch aspects in sports watches that I really love, the Mercedes hands and chamfers on a big crown Submariner for instance. The Polerouter is like the extreme end of that spectrum, a sports watch fully disguised as some artful dress watch. Hero to zero.. well, I've tricked myself into disliking a lot of brands whose watches I can't really justify the cost of.

so true. For every great bargain in my past, there are a several 'impatiently overpaids' and those watches never manage to stay long. It's all about learning to resist the initial must-have impulse; if the need exists a year later, it's less intense and you can wait for the proper deal. Those are some nice chunky diving instruments up there, making me long for a fifty fathoms a little...

I think he means like this 😀 I'm very interested in one of these cases. Would it be possible to get a sterile case, so that one can get custom engravings done later? Any estimate of what the price will be? I assume they will come with one of your early inserts that are in the works?

Speechless

Depends on what type of 1016 you're making, the reference evolved a fair bit over time. The earlier radium hands are harder to get than the later tritium ones.

https://www.mochacha.org/ Looks like decent stuff, hard to tell if the gilt dials are actually gilt. Cool to see a Commando, I always like when the more obscure references get a rep.

I wonder what would have happened if the American companies had kept to civilian production and didn't lose that several years of technical development to the war. They seem to me like some of the most critical years in the history of watchmaking. The 40s Rolex bubblebacks, for instance, exhibit all the DNA of the first sports watches of the 50s, and I wonder if any American designs would have rivaled or even beat them in the race to the civilian tool watch concept. On the military side, US watches seem to me technologically on par with those of the Swiss brands, and certainly less expensive to produce. The A11 pilots watches had the same +-15 spd accuracy standard and hacking feature as the RAF 6b/159s from Longines, Omega, and JLC. And while not as flashy as a Radiomir, the Elgin and Hamilton canteens were probably the best proto-dive watches of WW2. Once again, it's obvious that the 40s were a critical formulative period since many successive Swiss military developments like the Submariner, Blancpain FF, IWC Mark11 all sooner or later became hugely successful civilian classics. Pocket watches are a topic I have yet to explore much, but just browsing some of the movement pics from the models you mentioned makes me really want to get one and start tinkering with it.

I think those laws came to be as an attempt to save American watchmaking, which U.S. policy inadvertently killed by diverting domestic brands (which held a vast majority of the market share) to production of military instruments in WW2. It's sad really, in all likelihood the forums here would read Elgin, Hamilton, Gruen, Waltham Area if not for wartime decree and the ingenuity of the Swiss to capitalize on the situation.

I can't imagine being in your position, but if I had 25k to freely spend on watches I would probably hunt down a half dozen or so vintage designs I've always been drawn to and be satisfied with having an awesome collection. It's all about personal taste and appreciation of the art.

Looks nice to me, nothing glaringly wrong at all. Credibility as a rep watch is high. If you were unsatisfied and wanted to do better, your budget would be over 1k, and if you aren't good at putting watches together, more like 2-3k.

Really interesting stuff. Coincidentally I was just working on getting a Wyler automatic back in motion last night. I looked at the balance wheel and thought, man, no screw-in weights around the edges, seems cheap! Apparently I was dead wrong. The most fascinating thing about watches to me is the "losers" of history.. the numerous brands and inventors that were cutting-edge in their day but for whatever reason are all but forgotten now. Gruen is one of my favorite examples. A bit ago I stumbled on this excellent article about two early Fortis automatics designed by John Harwood, whom Rolex eventually had to give credit to in its advertising of the perpetual rotor design. One is a bumper auto in a waterproof case with no crown, time being set by turning the bezel, all in the 1920s mind you. The second is even more weird, a dress watch similar to the Wyler above but using a pivoting lug to translate strap flexion to a mechanical pushrod. The designs, broken down well in the article, are really incredible.

That WWW Timor is beautiful, nice work on the relume. One common practice I've seen is to remove radium lume under running water, supposedly that way any loose particles get swept away and become someone else's problem I guess. I would be worried about running a valuable 70 year old dial under running water though. You always hear that radium lume doesn't glow anymore because the phosphorescent zinc sulfide component has broken down. I wonder if it's possible to recoat lume plots with some kind of zinc sulfide mixture, preferably clear, to make them glow again. I don't know if it would work since this new coating isn't actually mixed with the radium, just sitting on top. But if you have to have radium on your dial it would at least be cool to get the full benefit along with the hazard. I'm wondering what to do with my 7909... the mutant green oblongs are pretty but it's a wearer so some glow would be nice..

Awesome! That 5.3mm will permit a Turnograph build This probably doesn't bear mentioning, but I've always noticed that the early no hash insert has quite a different look compared to later inserts. The numbers are a bit fuzzier, that's obvious. Another thing, it's never faded.. it's either bare aluminum where paint has chipped off, or still jet black. Maybe the biggest difference.. I believe the paint is thicker. There are glossy smooth ones on NOS museum piece watches, but the ones that saw use have a pretty rough looking matte surface now. I believe that the thick paint lends them a texture as they age. Pic attached shows what I mean. It would be cool if the thick coating could be replicated since I've had too many rep inserts scratch right through to the bare aluminum very easily. Anyone actually have one of these? I've kind of obsessed over the details just because I feel they have a really primitive look that lends tons of character to the early subs.

@JSebWCdefinitely get one. Most of the really interesting gilt and waffle dial 34mms seemed to have already gotten the dealer hype treatment but I see plainer ones in need of care selling for peanuts when they come up. Thanks for the info re. cases and crystals.. I did not know a rep 34mm case even exists, that may come in handy at some point. And nice looking big rose

Agreed, the no-hash red triangle is exceedingly rare.. I believe it was transitional for a short run of watches. It would be under very close scrutiny. I don't love how it looks personally. I second this! Would be amazing although a huge endeavor. Gen specs are always best IMO. Silex case has a bigger insert size, approx 37.5 OD, I can't give you a precise dimension but someone here can.

These part choices seem very well thought out with regard to the needs of rep builders in the current environment; I think they would all be great sellers. I am especially looking forward to the early thin font with thin silver triangle insert and 6mm brevit crown. If these two parts became available it would spur me to build a 1:1 7923, which has not been possible before. For the thin font insert, you just need to avoid the inaccuracies of the Phong version. The triangle should be the right shape and there should not be a hole drilled through for the lume dot, it should be an indent punched in. I really appreciate your work. I have ordered a couple of Athaya's 8mm sub crowns, and while they are fantastic, this is the only minor inaccuracy, that you don't see the tiny grooves on the inside edge from the SS crimping. But looking at my gen 24-600 Brevit crown here, I don't see the grooves the same way, so maybe the authentic two part design is of less importance on these (I'm assuming it's harder to produce).

Very cool, I'll have to make one of these. Settling for a boring, flat, decyclopsed glass for now..