Toadtorrent

Back at you...I have family who live in London...used to be W2...that was fun to visit...now they're a little farther out but not too bad. Hey...TO is the land of The Zigmeister and boyfriends right...how can you go wrong? Heh heh...

There is truth to this. The Sub is probably one of the most "tool" oriented of the "tool" watches by Rolex. So, being something that is supposed to be used...a lot...and hard...it is designed and exists as a reliable piece that you don't really notice is there until you need it. Unlike a larger piece like an Omega UPO...those feel like you have something substantial on your wrist which may make you think you don't have something cheap on. If you want a "luxury" feel, most people equate this with "heavy" and big...then go for the uber-bling of some of the ugly jewelled piece.

I liked the UPO...but when I tried on a gen PO, both the dealer and I went "...uuuuuh...no...not for you...too big for your wrist"...I have a 6.5" wrist. The Breitling SFSO / SOSF is pretty close to the same size but for some reason doesn't look as visually "heavy". I think the Tag looks better on smaller wrists than the UPO...YMMV.

TO here too... No rep dealers in the City that I know of...at least none that are worth looking at. The reps referred to and spoken of here I call "real" reps...hah hah...given that they are of a quality much higher than would normally be found elsewhere. The dealers used here will have shipped without problem to Canada and will stand by their products which you will find, as you start reading dealer/collector reviews etc. Shipping from any of the China (CN) based dealers takes about a week using EMS including time at customs, but using slower air mail (about $12 USD instead of $32 USD or so) may take up to 3 weeks or, as little as just over a week. Shipping BACK to China is a problem as we don't have a cheap, fast airmail service with registration for tracking or anything. So return shipping can take a month on a slow boat to China (literally) if something doesn't work out...or will be really expensive by Expresspost international service (about $50+).

You'll find the quality of help pretty consistent here...the Admin's do a great job...and when you consider how much it costs to run this place...SCARY...the admin team put into this board a HUGE amount of sweat equity and hard currency!! You've put money well spent.

There are plenty of manufacturers of cheap Ti watches out there including "Guess" as in Guess Jeans that sell for less than $100 USD so it's not as expensive as you would think. The 904L SS is probably more expensive than the Ti used, which is why you only see the 316 used in the rep watches.

He wanted to confirm that the movement at least seems right. If it was battery powered or automatic with that model number, it would definitely not seem right and could indicate a rep instead of a gen. Given that it is manual wind, that is in line with the cosmograph of that generation, which would help increase confidence that you have a highly coveted piece.

Exactly Pugwash. Porsche Design and F.A. Porsche have come up with external hard drive designs sold at Best Buy and cooking knives sold at Lee Valley Tools.

Nice review Lady V...especially from one of the few who can pull this watch off. :cool:

Interesting article. Thanks!

Hi Newb, You'll be hard pressed to find a chrono rep that tests resistant to 300m. Do a search on water proof, water resistant, waterproof and you'll see all sorts of experiences. In general (YMMV of course), non-chrono reps with screw down crowns are likely to be water resistant enough for swimming. Some have been tested to scuba diving depth and beyond by members here. The most water resistant reps out of the box are the Breitling SOSF / SFSO, and the new Rolex "Super Sea Dweller". Look up Themuck's Super Sea Dweller test...nice. That concerns water resistance...and not necessarily the rep accuracy itself. As to chronos...some like Gioarmani have tested their SMP Chrono to 10atm out of the box (he twice!!)...but mine failed below 3atm. Don't assume anything with water resistance and reps. Some dealers indicate testing greater than 50m depth...contact the dealer, and determine a course of action if the watch leaks. The dealers on the board here will stand by their products...but huge time delays (for return of failed items), and extra cost (you will have to pay return shipping on ALL return transactions) may not be your cup of tea. Good luck...and if you test your new watch for water resistance with good results...post them back on the board!!

That's why God invented ankles.

Thanks...I thought it was interesting. My wife pointed it out to me and asked how accurate they were. It's definitely written to a target reader who has really no idea of high end watches, or has any interest in the niftiness of mechanical movements...exactly like you say...to those who haven't clue. I always enjoy reading their gear reviews...of equipment (generally outdoor technical equipment like hydration packs, high end bikes, hiking boots, gore-tex jackets, etc)...more from an anthropological perspective of finding what aspect of non-Manhattan lifestyle the Upper East Side should aspire to when their cousins have booked the get-away in the Hamptons.

Needless to say, most of the comments were not too favourable regarding expensive watches. However, I did find this "put down" quite amusing from a reader named "Thumb Sucker" posted this comment: "These watches all sound awesome. I want the moon one. I need to know when the moon is phasing, and I need to know all the time. " I do in fact, feel this way.

This is from one of our national newspapers (The Globe and Mail): This is the Rolls-Royce of watches ANDREW WILLIS From Friday's Globe and Mail December 7, 2007 at 8:52 AM EST For $8,700 (U.S.), Swiss watch company Romain Jerome will sell you a wristwatch with a rusty, pitted steel case. The tarnish reflects the fact that the metal was once part of the Titanic, and spent decades at the bottom of the Atlantic, then was hauled up prior to the wreck being declared a protected site in the mid-nineties. For $23,050, there's a Rolex with a face made out of a thinly sliced chunk of meteorite, rimmed in white gold. For $24,800, your wrist can be one of just 247 on the planet sporting a hunk of polished steel designed, in a limited run, by watchmaker Panerai and auto maker Ferrari. Watches in this price range are still great conversation pieces. They do keep time. Yet high-end buyers are walking right past these gimmicks to drop anywhere from $100,000 to $1.3-million on a watch design that hasn't much changed in more than 200 years. Because what you really want to reveal when you pull back your sleeve is something called a tourbillon. What, you ask, is a tourbillon? It's the watchmaker's highest achievement: a collection of hand-crafted gears and springs designed to keep an incredibly accurate count of minutes passing by offsetting the influence of gravity or any other outside force. Enlarge Image Piaget's bejewelled Kanthara watch fetches $1.4-million. (Ryan Carter for The Globe and Mail) The guts of a tourbillon watch, known as the escapement, are built to rotate and are usually left visible. The few high-end manufacturers, all Swiss, who turn out these gems take six to 12 months to produce each watch. The concept was developed in 1795 by Abraham Louis Breguet, who is to Swiss timepieces what Tim Horton is to Canadian coffee. Napoleon bought three Breguet watches - one of his wife's sold at auction this year for $1.3-million. Winston Churchill wore one. Now, it's Canada's real-estate developers and financiers who quietly boast of their success by strapping on these timepieces. They join a club that also includes Hollywood royalty: Arnold Schwarzenegger and Nicolas Cage are collectors of tourbillons from watchmakers such as Audemars Piguet and Patek Philippe. "A generation ago, buying a Rolex was seen as a sign of success," says Tyler Markoff, manager of Royal de Versailles Jewellers. "Now, Rolex is still a great watch, but the goal for many buyers is to own something more exclusive, a tourbillon watch." And Mr. Markoff recently sold three watches based on Mr. Breguet's work to a long-time customer, for $1-million, during one visit, and took a $100,000 order from another customer for a Panerai tourbillon that won't be delivered until the summer of 2009. "It's a banker's watch, understated yet elegant, and for those who understand the engineering it's got real wow appeal," Mr. Markoff says. "They are pieces of art, or the equivalent of a Rolls-Royce." The larger trend ticking away in high-end watches is a move toward increased spending by men on accessories. North American spending on men's jewellery nearly doubled in the past three years to $6-billion, according to Pam Danziger, founder of Unity Marketing, which advises luxury retailers. Those who start the journey to a $100,000-plus watch quickly come to a fork in the road. There are gem-encrusted pieces that are more jewellery than clock, and there are highly technical pieces such as tourbillon-style watches. For reasons firmly rooted in boys' fascination with toys, the new-money lads in the financial and software worlds are showing enormous interest in techno-timepieces. Combine that surging demand with the relatively limited production from Switzerland, and you end up with a bubble that speaks to the wealth and impatience of our age. Patek Philippe, one of the toniest Swiss watchmakers, turns out about 15,000 pieces a year, while Rolex ships 600,000. Among the top-end pieces is something called a Sky Moon tourbillon, a double-sided watch that charts the movements of the stars on one face. The price tag is up to $900,000. Buying these Patek Philippes, according to a recent piece in Time magazine, means submitting to an interview with the company in Geneva, getting approval, then waiting one to four years. For some well-heeled buyers, including the hedge-fund crowd, the wait was intolerable: Time found buyers dropping $1.2-million on slightly used Sky Moon watches in auctions, in order to avoid the line. To explain this extravagance, the magazine quoted Robert Frank, author of Richistan: A Journey Through the American Wealth Boom and the Lives of the New Rich, as saying: "The challenge for today's rich is to set themselves apart from the merely affluent."

Hah hah...that's an empty offer. Lady V's inbox is full 99% of the time. Just kidding...if you look at her post count, you'll know she's good on her offer to provide help.

Yup...AND: - Gen uses pins not screws on bracelet - Caseback looks totally different...the engraving of the wave pattern has a much different feel to it than the rep - and as said below, the bezel pearl position is a big give away... BUT...remember, AD salespeople are not in the know for the most part, on the nuances of spotting reps...more on the nuances of purveying a lifestyle...

Maybe By-Tor can pin this as a reference for wokkiness in the Rollie section...hah!

Hmmmm...is it me or is your Noob In Water the only one with REALLY deep rehut??

I'm not so sure about this...the spacing looks the same to me...here's a pic of the gen from the Omega site: The gen uses an Omega Caliber 1164 which is an ETA 7750 base...so the subdial spacing is the same. The Speedmaster spacing is off for sure...as the Moonwatch and 50th I believe use an Omega 1861 which is a Lemania 861 and there is no manual rep of that movement...maybe By-Tor or The Zigmeister can correct me on this one...

I spent 2 hours shovelling snow in the land of The Zigmeister...this makes it very festive. Nice skin!!

Great view and nice shots. I'm jealous. I have a view of office buildings right now. >sigh<

Just to update this thread, my Beginmariner from Josh...after getting the right one with the proper F520117 caseset, has not been tested by a machine, but has survived swimming and showering a number of times with no problems. I did not do anything to the watch. The gasket on the tube was present...didn't grease it...just screwed the crown in tight. As to the caseback...I stuck a rubber glove on the back and turned it is tight as I could get it with my hands (and it didn't move a millimeter). I took the leap of faith and after a few sessions of swimming (no more than 2m deep) for a couple hours each session...no leaks...no problems...all good! My gut feeling is, any NON-Chrono watch with a screw in crown (and screw in HEV for that matter) will likely be water resistant enough for swimming. Diving is a different issue. Add in chrono pushers to the equation and it's a crap shoot...

That is a good price for the gen dials...if you can do the work yourself then you might be in a good position there.