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Ok.....so if you were to drop in a GEN 1570 movement.....which 1680 case set would be the most recommended? Any expert advice or insight on fit and finish would be great. PHONG???...most likely expensive...BUT...he claims to use true 316 Stainless.....which others (Yuki) does not.....now, I know those old style cases, Role GEN did not even use 316...but it is a better stainless YUKI watch???......he will seem to be the least expensive.....BUT....is his case better finished than others??? NDTrading.....I don't know much about their case sets....but I do see they are more expensive than Yuki....and slightly less so than Phong.

Using the 2 links, the 3 cases of gen vs vietnam vs ts-station are slim sides. RWI 6542 case study - TS Station rep and the vietnam high end case - Replica Watch Info (replica-watch.info) Chrono24 Rolex Vintage GMT-Master Ref-6542 Tropic Steel Bj-1957 for Price on request for sale from a Trusted Seller on Chrono24 MQ and NDTrading has the same case for 6542. The sides look like cartel's $278, but with proper lug hole positions. MQ has better bezel, caseback and crown holes. I'm strictly comparing the sides. MQ Rolex Set Case GMT Ref 6542 Stock #CASE-REP (vintagewatchesmq.com) NDTrading ND Trading Enterprises ndtradingcorp.com, Vintage Rolex Dials and Watches

That's a good question. My friend thinks that NDTrading morphed into MQ. We bought a 16800 dial from him around 1-1/2 years ago maybe Khoa Minh <ndtradingcorp888@gmail.com <mailto:ndtradingcorp888@gmail.com> we sent the paypal money to <mailto:muahangmy4u@yahoo.com> We paid $110 less than MQ wanted for a similar dial. Draw your own conclusions and shop at your own risk- I make no guarantees. BTW, when I bought the dial and case from NDTrading in 07 or so, I paid maybe $800 for the case and $200 or so for the dial. Built a 5508 with a 1520 movement that came from a 5500 AK. But that was back when Natalie was running the show and she was in California.

Hello This is my first purchase from Nathalie, but the contact form seems to not working, as I receive no answer ! Please let me know if you have her email ! Thanks, R.

Having done the franken route with gen movements back in the 2006-9 period, I've definitely quit that path. I built a 5508 with case and dial from NDTrading and a not quite correct 1520 movement from an Air King. I paid $880 for the AK and surprisingly it came with 7835 bracelet with 571 ends- whoppee! I spent $2500 putting the watch together including a service in there. I picked up a couple of gen T-16 crystals in the day for $100 each or so- gone are those days! I could work on making sure that the watch is WR, but I just don't see the point. I do have an older AK with a 1530 movement which would be correct for the 5508, but I haven't gotten around to swapping them out. The older AK with a gold plated case- maybe I paid $1000-1100. I just don't remember. Second watch is a 1803 watch in SS. Picked up a 1556 movement on the bay with a silver day and date wheel for a good price, a redone white dial with silver stick markers and got a 16000 DJ case that Phong modified to accept the 1556 movement. A white dialed 1803 in SS. I love the watch- it flies below the radar. I'm wearing it on a 93150 and call it the Sportman's Day Date. Once again I spent around $2500 putting the watch together. For all around beatability, I like my two DJ frankens- a 16014 and a 16013, both with 2836-2 swiss movements. There are WR tested watches and are great at $500 each

This is for planning the next upgrade available for 1665. Hope to learn more from experts... Does MBW 1665 take gen 1570 movements like Yuki/NDTrading? Does MBW spacer ring fit Yuki/NDTrading? Are the caseback interchangeable between MBW/Yuki/NDTrading? Which case set would you recommend? Thanks in advance for your guidance.

Ok, I have the watch in hand & this much I know with reasonable certainty - the (non-hacking 19.8k bph) movement, crystal (which, except for a slight yellowing (age/sun exposure), looks like the gen T39 I installed yesterday on a customer's watch), stem & case are gen (caseback is most likely gen, but it could be a repro (an excellent repro) that was made many years ago), the hands appear newly made & the dial (which has a different 'rose' & slightly different lume than Chris's) is probably an aftermarket vintage piece. However, if someone (with more Tudor experience than I have) wanted to suggest otherwise on the dial, I would be an easy sell (it is much better than NDTrading or just about any other aftermarket Tudor dial I have seen). Initially, after reading Chris's original post & the seller's story, I thought this was a batch of exact duplicate copies, which would indicate a shipment of frankens from the same source. But the lume on my watch is different than Chris's (as well as the watch pictured on the seller's website), the crystal is clearly (no pun intended) older and in poorer condition (in this case, that is a good thing) & the movement also appears to be in a different condition & age, which makes me lean more towards the possibility of these watches being mostly or all gen. But, in either case, these watches are gorgeous. Now, onto the pics (As you can see, the movement & stem have obvious signs of genuine age & wear (rusting screws, stem, etc)) (The perlaged pillar plate is correctly numbered) (Caseback has the look, finish & feel --you can usually tell by the way a caseback screws onto a case whether it is a gen or rep-- of a genuine Tudor part, but is it real............I am not sure?) (Crown is probably aftermarket) Now to the Swimsuit Competition Here are a couple of gens for comparison ____________ My conclusion, well 3 conclusions - 1. Anyone who bought 1 of these for $275 ripped off the seller - I would easily have paid $800+, as is, & still walked away thinking I got a helluva deal. 2. I can understand why Girard bought the lot thinking they were 100% gen. I am still not sure myself. 3. If you missed out on this 1............well, you missed out on the deal of a lifetime. Sorry. Oh, 1 more thing - A BIG THANK YOU to Chris5264 for not only bringing this to the membership's attention, but doing it just in time.

Does anyone have NDTrading's shipping address in CA? If so, please PM it to me. TIA

Hello, I have a question about those NDTrading or other cases like this one. Do you know if the bezel is better than the one on the MBW cases? Regards Chris

Wondering if a NDTrading 1680 dial will fit my MBW without any alterations to the dial? Anyone have any input or experience?

did some quick works on my MBK 1665... the belly botton looks more convincing now, at least I hope. not as good as the modders in here......at least i tried

I was noticing recently that there is a greater number of members who are branching out from the conventional channels through which most of us have conventionally sourced parts. There are other options out there for those of us who are transfixed by the idea of being able to create projects on rep bases on something other than just the MBK's. The only models that MBK offers that are good for this purpose are the 1680 and 1665. I know there are others, but they're variations on those two basic models. I am curious if there's a way to arrange a wholesale supplier of these for those of us who are looking for more value than what they're seeing on the websites or on ebay. I don't know if there's enough demand, or whether the folks that have access to these would even be able or willing to hook us up here. I know that they'd be more expensive than an MBK- you're paying for what you get, I'm sure. I just don't think we fall into the same category of folks that they generally rely on for their business. I think for the most part, they target the genuine Rolex owners who are looking at these reps as a fall-back option. The point being that the majority of their business probably comes from genuine Rolex owners. As a result, I think they price them accordingly. I just wonder whether we could arrange something through Phong for something that we wouldn't have access to more usually...like the Tudors that he supposedly arranged, but something that would be more popular, like an Explorer case. It seems as though we may have neglected this option due to the price of their cases as well as the availability of MBK's that are souced more cheaply and easily.

I wan to share some helpful information while we are talking about dealing with MQ, Rubywatch, etc. Because I consider you all my friends here for how generous you have been with information and help. Especially people like Automatico, JackFlash, and others (forgive me if I didn't name others who help me a lot). Here is my way of paying it forward.... When making purchases with Vietnam dealers, I had a lot of problems with how to pay. Most of them will not take Pay Pal. In fact, none of the ones here we mentioned will take Pay Pal, at least for purchases over 400 or 600 bucks. When you wire money to them, be absolutely sure you have their complete First, Last, and middle names. In Vietname, even if you have the SWIFT code perfect as well as the Bank codes, etc... if you write their name different in any way, the banks in Vietname will do a "soft reject" of the money. MQ, RubyWatch, or whoever you are sending money to in Vietnam will not be able to get the money. In most countries, if you accidently put the last name as first name correct, the banks will still transfer the money to the recipient. But Vietnamese Banks never release the money unless you get every part of their name perfectly, regardless of having perfect SWIFT and BIC codes. You will get your money back but your bank that sent the wire transfer will charge you another 80 dollar fee or so. This happened to me once. MQ was actually easy to do deal with for me. I sent MQ Western Union and it's easier for Vietnamese merchants to pick up their money from Western Union. But if you don't make your wire transfers perfectly, it will get rejected and cost you 80 dollars or so on top of the initial fee you paid to wire money. American banks are scumbags so our wire transfer fees are much higher than in Europe so maybe this is not a big deal for a lot of you. This is why I'm so [censored] that NDTrading no longer exists. She is in California and used to sell the Vietnamese made Rolex cases and dials. I don't know if she accepted Pay Pal or Credit Cards but I'm 100% sure it was easier to pay her that the merchants who are physically in Vietnam like now.

MQ sides are fatter, less sharp than RWI's 2 comparison and example on chrono24. I honestly believed NDTrading had the best case. View end of lugs, from side angle. But I also seen a few fat lugs on genuine listings. Rolex Vintage GMT-Master Ref-6542 Tropic Steel Bj-1957 for Price on request for sale from a Trusted Seller on Chrono24

Does anyone know if NDtrading is still active? I emailed them without response for 6542 case.

I think you are onto something. If China was pumping these out, I feel like they would have trickled into the TDs, Helenarou, Raffles. Instead we get things like the BP Factory approximations being sold. I have a different theory. Go back 15yrs or even more. I believe that the “Vietnam” versions/parts WERE the ultimate counterfeits that probably made a handful of people rich. The OG Frankenstein’s that made it through auctions successfully, etc. Things were low-key for a reason and even if they came out of China???, the trickery and large $$$$$$$ returns kept it underground’ish. As time went on, thanks to forums like this and VRF and general Internet expansion the jig is basically up. Remember characters like Orchi and when NDTrading hit eBay? That was sort of the turning point in my mind. That brings us to 2021. While you will always have “purists” or pi55ed off people who paid $$$,$$$ for a genuine vintage that never leaves the safe, or got scammed In the early days— I think most people just want the Aesthetic of the vintage Rolex with the Rolex logo on the dial. I have attended snobby GTGs and the Frankens are starting to show up. There is no attempt to deceive, and most people are truthful about the origins of their non-Rolex-Rolex. Most people are accepting. To hell with those who aren’t. 10yrs ago I used to obsess about crown guards, bezel inserts, dial text. (Things that only really matter in macro photos or under a loupe). Now, I stumble across cool dials that while not 100% accurate are simply nice to look at! Same with cases and inserts. Build/Buy what appeals to you, to the aesthetic you prefer. None of us are fooling anyone wearing our 6542, 6538’s out in public. I am all for Franken-Frankenstein’s these days. If I saw a 6542 in public I would ask them if they know “Phong, Ruby, or MQ” and watch their expression. 😉😃 So Vietnam/Vietnamese is just a label to differentiate the closest counterfeit vintage parts and not necessarily the actual origin source.

I did manage to buy a 16800 matte dial from NDTrading a couple of years ago- it wasn't Natalie whom I had dealt with around 2008-9 when I was building a 5508. It appears that the response came from Vietnam and I was able to pay for the dial with Paypal. My friend that I was buying the dial for claims it was MQ's email address. We did get the dial- paid $250 and it was a fairly decent matte dial until my friend went and had it relumed with blue chromalite! If you go to the website and pick out a part and contact seller, who knows if you'll get a response- maybe you explain that you're on this forum and are building a watch. We all know that the lawyers can't shut down a vendor over in Vietnam. Of course I also wonder how Phong has managed to stay out of trouble after all of these years.

"At 74 years old you’d think I’d give it up." Never give it up! "You’ve been around long enough to remember. I bought the bezel in 2011 or 12, but not from ndtrading. The vendor was Mark something, like Mk. III or something. Or maybe I’m confusing the name with the bezel. A Mk. II, or Ml. III bezel." I do not remember who it was either. I am sure the aftmkt suppliers could make replacement bezels as good as yours with no trouble but they continue making mistakes for some reason. The virus has closed us down around here and I saw where they are keeping the Smoky Mountains closed through April 30. I can see the Smokies out of our back windows, I'm about 15 minutes from the mountains and 30 minutes from the National Park. Do Not feed the bears...unless you want to be bear food.

Hey Auto. We were coming through your town this month, but the Coronavirus closed down the Smokies. You’ve been around long enough to remember. I bought the bezel in 2011 or 12, but not from ndtrading. The vendor was Mark something, like Mk. III or something. Or maybe I’m confusing the name with the bezel. A Mk. II, or Ml. III bezel. I was asking because I’m thinking about selling the watch, because I never have worn it, and I have something else in mind. I’m loving these VR movements. Serviced a couple with good success. At 74 years old you’d think I’d give it up.

A while back I got a 16800 matte dial from NDTrading. I did it via email. I was doing it for a friend and I/we sent the money via paypal to an address that my friend swears is MQ's. At any rate we got the dial. Natalie is long gone as far as I can tell.

The printing quality of these NDtrading dials is very good, better than the MBW dials, which is 1 of the reasons I purchased 1. But, as I said, each aftermarket dial has its own set of inaccuracies & each owner must decide which dial has the least amount of objectionable sins. For me, between the MBW & NDtrading, I went with the MBW. My thinking is that if you closely inspect each dial through a loupe, the NDtrading will win because of its clearer & more precise printing quality. But when viewed normally, from a few feet away (or the distance between 2 closely spaced tables in an intimate restaurant, which is the benchmark I use), I think the MBW's more accurately sized crown & index markers give the viewer a more gen-like presentation. The new dial I posted earlier gets all of the text fonts/sizes nearly dead-on (both of the other dials got these wrong for different reasons). It gets the crown nearly dead-on (the NDtrading crown is too narrow, the MBW too imprecisely printed). It gets the date window nearly dead-on (the MBW is slightly too small). Its only serious flaw is that its 6 & 9 index markers are still slightly too narrow (though not as obviously wrong as they are on the NDtrading dial) & the lume color is still too artificial looking (if they had only used white, I could easily widen the 6 & 9 index markers & the dial would be a winner.......but, as always, they get at least 1 or 2 obvious things wrong).

The printing quality of the NDtrading dial is far better than the MBW, but the MBW ultimately won the battle because even though its printing was of poorer quality (to view the word 'ROLEX' an MBW dial through a loupe will make you sick) its overall appearance was closer to a gen. Basically, it came down to which was less noticeable -- the NDtrading's too narrow index markers & crown, or the MBW's poorer overall printing. With some reservations, I decided to stick with the MBW and continue to search for a better dial alternative that I could live with. I believe this new dial is that better alternative. While Rolex obviously did not have access to laser-quality printing equipment in the 70s & early 80s, their dials were printed with good quality paint and, in most cases, paint that was applied fairly thickly, at least in contrast to the paint & painting techniques applied to MBWs & most other rep or repainted dials. This Daytona 116520 hand comparison will give you an idea of the type of quality differences I see between paints used on reps/repaints & gens. Ignore the fact that the gen hand (left) is the wider (newer) version & the rep hand (right) is the original narrower version Note the thickness, glossiness & quality of application of paint on the gen vs the thin, matte & poorly applied paint on the rep. Now these are both modern parts, but the differences in material & application quality you see here are similar to what I see (through a loupe) when comparing a vintage gen dial (in good condition) with most reps/repaints. The paint & application quality on the NDtrading dial was so much more like what you see on a gen that I had to could not help but to take that into account when I was comparing it to my MBW. But, like I said, in the end, even though the NDtrading dial was a much better quality, it just had too many obvious flaws in its execution, which left the MBW looking like the better option. But it was a tough call that I hope will be much easier if this new dial is of NDtrading quality. Does that make more sense?

We've talked about them at length. Tons of good information here: https://rwg.cc/search/?q=ndtrading

Thanks Guys! Stephane....sorry I left you out of the list of Rolex experts. I was reading through the previous discussions on the DRSD on RWG. A replica will always be a replica, that's a fact on any Given Sunday. It's always a customary action for replicators to leave a distinctive "flaw" or 2 on their offerings, it's been like that all the while. While the MBW DRSD dial isn't perfect, the thickness at the 6 and 9 o'clock position of the indices seem just about right, compared to NDTrading. Alongside with the thin crown on the NDTrading dial compared to the more accurate MBW dial. That said, I have noticed some members prefer to stick to the MBW dial as from far, let's say a coffee table away or 2, the MBW dial does resemble more gen. However, upon closer inspection, the NDTrading dial's print is a better one, abeit the flaws stated above. Rolexes are infamous for variations on their dials, up to today. Pick out any D or Z series Sea Dweller and for you sharp-eyed folks, you will be able to see the minute differences on the dial, especially on the fonts, distancing and at times, the crown too. NDTrading is selling a DRSD dial with 1570 cal movement for a whopping USD $ 2250!! Crazy and tempted as I am, I reckon I will hold off this poisonous route for a bit. The hunting game is the juice....let it flow, let it waterfall....

Respect Alterego! What a story! You are on the right path, gathering parts for a 1016 build. What ref # is your DJ case? The dial is the most essential part of the built, the other half is the case of course. There are at times very good deals for genuine, even NOS 1016 dials, way below the mentioned high prices! Whoopy's dial was one good option. The other most affordable is Yuki. Then you have NDtrading or MQ, their dials are the same, I suspect NDtrading dials almost all come from MQ. ND do not respond to contacts so you may have better luck with MQ. Prices are higher. Diameter of Yuki's dial is 28mm, that is what the genuine dial diameter is. Dial feet are genuine positioned at 30 and 57 minutes. Start your build maybe first with a Yuki dial if you don't find any better, then keep looking for a genuine dial or a better refinished one and have then swapped later. Best of luck!