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1. Read Donerix's modding of the PT case to reduce the 'wokkiness'. http://www.rwg.cc/to...l__6542__st__20 2. I think you can get a much more accurate insert for $100 less than NDTrading. http://www.rwg.cc/to...__fromsearch__1 3. The PT dial might be a good one with a better lume job. 4. Clark's 25-116 is very good. 5. Ken at Raffles Time has the replica 6mm Brevet '+' crown and tube. Just make certain to tell him you need the 3.0 threads to the case. http://www.rwg.cc/to...__fromsearch__1 I think JMB can help you with the overlay. Oh, and one more thing, in regards to the movement. Have it serviced. I have been told by a very reliable source that the ETA 2846-2 used in this watch is a genuine Swiss, but a used one refurbished with some Chinese parts. That makes it a really good deal, and easily serviceable.

Hey guys - thanks for all the kind words! @ephry - I did shave the cgs . there aren't really any good photos. I will have to take some more. Some more helpful hints for anyone looking to do a build like this - to remove the dial feet from the ndtrading dial I twisted them off. ---------------- After wearing the watch for a day - I feel like I want to make it look "older" yet. -I didnot modify this dial. Instead i left the pantina from mdtrading as is. The color of the hour markers is correct, but the texture is too glossy. Perhaps i need to cook it a bit in the toaster. - I am thinking that perhaps the rep crown is still too big. It really emphasizes the small cgs. Perhaps the 703 is the way to go - plexiglas , i didn't really modify this yet. I had wiped the inside of it with a paper towel which left it with swirl marks. Glad this is vintage or I would have been [censored] - next step is to rough up the plexiglas then hit it with the cape cod - the rep band sucks. Sharp edges everywhere. Even after sanding it down I still have sharp spots. I also have issues with it opening up. I rebent and adjusted everything. - but it still suck. It just feels cheap. Not sure what I will do Photos to come in a few days

here are some photos. You can see here that the ndtrading dial fits right into the cartel 5513 case. ...but the legs are in a different position instead of gluing the fing to the dial and the dial to the movement - i instead soldered feet onto the ring. I used probbal 18 or 20 awg copper wire probably from a cat5 cable. I then used a razor blad to trim and cu off excess solder

Bonjour de France, Stephane To be clear, there is only 5 ways to have good cases here : cartel dealers (Josh, Andrew, etc.), DW, Yuki, NDT, or Phong. I think you should consider buying a Phong's case kit if you have money, and if you do not want to bother about movement fitting. NDTrading is also selling a case, but it's IMO a bad case, like I said in another thread. I don't think DW or Yuki selling 16520 cases. And cartel do not provide any El Primero-based cases... So... I think the Phong choice is your only easy way to have a correct case : http://www.jewelryandwatch.com/ Guys, please correct me if I'm wrong Movement who are not fitting is a common problem when you are making a Rolex rep with El Primero or Valjoux 72x. Especially with El Primero, if I trust what I seen before The case you have here on eBay is a 7750 case. I guess your current case is also a 7750 case. This will never fit an El Primero R.

Can you say Natalie from NDTrading Corp? A step above Yuki and like woof says, if you can bargain her down, all the better.

I asked the same question a about 5513 dials. I've been looking at ndtrading and np0234 (eBay) who us a bit cheaper than ndt. I've not seen anything of ndt's dials that suggest they are worth the extra £££'s over yuki etc. Vintage Rolex forum has a good sales Market forum for gen stuff. Perhaps a gen service dial is the way to go. Oh and just out if interest where did you get your MBW case, I'm still hunting!

Dig deep enough into the archives here, and you'll find that there's nothing new under the sun. As I mentioned in my V72 Daytona thread, I was surprised in 2009 to discover that there was a cheap, accurate 6263 rep available--DW's. I was even more surprised to find out that they'd been around since 2005! The guy who put together that super-duper-hyper-franken (klingsor) actually posted on RWI last year, after I'd mentioned him in someone's 6541 build thread. So he may still be monitoring his old accounts, in case someone has questions. As with an accurate 1019, a super-6541 is a very ambitious build. But if that's the watch you want, then go for it! That said, it would be worth looking closely at the 6541 replacement case offered by NDTrading and comparing it (as much as you can using the photos available) with Phong's. Phong's 1019, for example, is a poor replication, and I've no idea how his 6541 compares with the gen.

www.ebay.com NDTrading Yukiwatch et. al.

[spun off from my Work-in-Progress thread.] I don't think there's any dispute that DW's 7032 has the most accurate Homeplate dial in the aftermarket. Unfortunately, it's let down by hands that are crude representations of the actual units. So what's a Monte Carlo owner to do? To the best of my knowledge, there are five options other than DW's: Jewelry & Watch, NDTrading, Classic Watch Parts, Yuki, and... Tudor. (Good luck finding gens!) At the time I bought this 7032, I also ordered a CWP handset as it looked to be the best available. Yuki's 7032 handset was out of stock for a long time, but returned to shelves about two months ago. I never considered buying the expensive NDT or Phong sets for reasons cited below. So let's compare three of those handsets with the real deal. The photo is obviously a composite, but I've taken care to resize all objects to scale: HAND LENGTHS (in mm) Genuine (est) Center-Tip Center-Tail Overall Sweep 14.6 4.0 18.6 Hour 9.1 2.1 11.2 Minute 13.2 2.1 15.3 DW Center-Tip Center-Tail Overall Sweep 13.8 2.7 16.5 Hour 9.1 2.5 11.6 Minute 13.6 2.6 16.2 CWP Center-Tip Center-Tail Overall Sweep 13.1 4.0 17.1 Hour 8.2 2.4 10.6 Minute 12.0 2.5 14.5 Yuki Center-Tip Center-Tail Overall Sweep 14.3 3.0 17.3 Hour 9.2 1.9 11.1 Minute 13.6 1.9 15.5 None of the aftermarket hands is a perfect match, so what's to be done? Let's keep it simple: 1. Get the Yuki handset, but keep the DW subdial hands. 2. Shorten the tip of the Yuki minute hand until it falls within the white minute track. 3. Strip/repaint the DW subdial hands so that they are white, with unpainted centers. In addition to being the closest to the gens in size and shape, Yuki's hands are the only ones that are faceted i.e. they're creased down the center. (This is more visible in the pictures at the bottom.) All other suppliers have minute and hour hands that are flat surfaces. For this reason alone, the Yuki handset is the only one worth considering. Unfortunately, Yuki's subdial hands are very different from the gen's. They're well-made and painted the right way, but they're also too thin to be credible. Here's a better look at the DW and Yuki sweep hands, flipped over. DW's sweep has an unsightly bulge around the center, and Yuki's color better matches the orange on the 5-10 minute sector. Nevertheless, DW's shade of orange is still an improvement over the pinkish hands of Phong and NDT. On my watch, I've kept the CWP sweep hand. It doesn't reach the minute numerals (as on the gen), but the tip is not as noticeable as the accurately long tail. Also, I'd like to get some return for sunk costs! I hope this has been helpful to present and future Association members.

If we could only get MBW parts.... Hopefully they start up production again soon! I just finished putting together a modified PT1680 case with NDtrading dial and gen bracelet etc... these new cheap 1680 and 1665 cases just arnt the same quality. The MBW cases are so nice to work with and modify. I was going to install a gen 1680 dial into this case but I'm going to save it for a MBW case when i find one. dizz

“The first Sea-Dweller was launched by the end of 1967, bearing the model number 1665. It had a depth rating of 2000 feet, which was clearly engraved in red color as “Sea-Dweller Submariner 2000” on the dial. This model featured the 1575 movement, the new Triplock crown, a thicker crystal, and a larger case. The new Triplock crown featured a triple gasket system which helps in tightly screwing down the case tube against the Oyster case. As a result, another layer of protection is created. This model did not carry the date magnification bubble, present on all Rolex watches. The special version of 1665 that was issued to the COMEX divers, however, continued to display the standard “COMEX” logo. Later, to strengthen the image of Sea-Dweller, the tag “Submariner 2000” was dropped leaving only “Sea-Dweller” on the dial in white color. This look started by the mid 1970s and continued until 1981.” The original mbk 1665 is a great looking watch, there is no question. Many will agree the quality and feel of the watch are beyond the josh/pt vintage line. As an owner of the PT 1680, I can easily agree. Despite being a great replication, some of us turn our sickness for perfection and make it an interactive enjoyable hobby. These are the following modifications I performed on my 1665. 1. Drill lugs holes and bracelet 2. File crown guards 3. Replace crown and tube 4. Replace bezel insert 5. Smoothen case 6. Replace crystal 7. Replace dial 8. Relume dial and hands out of the box mbk great white seadweller Most of us start out with some inspiration. I found a great example of a well taken care of 1665 with some service replacement parts on it. I find that this part is crucial to the project, it keeps you on track and gives you focus and direction. gen I immediately was hooked on the superdome, it just gave the watch such a vintage dive watch feel. gen A great example of an original rail gen dialed 1665 great white. A large majority of this hobby is hunting for the parts. Well, it started out looking like this. The MBK is a great base, but it does need some massaging to get it celebrity status. First is the lug holes. I used 3 precision bits by IRWIN, I found them at a local ACE hardware store. Working from smaller to larger to widen the hole. I started out with the #57 and finished up with the #55. You will also need to drill the bracelet to accept the 2mm gen spring bars. I used a 5/64th’s cobalt bit. You can do this without a drill press, but you will probably break bits. I used my buddies and made a jig that held the case firmly so it could move a smidgen if needed. This keeps you from being a little off in the setup and ending up with a crooked hole. Since the hole is already there, it acts as a pilot with the drill bit passing through the case. Some tips: Drill slowly and use some oil. I backed off regularly to let the bit cool I used leather to hold the bracelet in place while I drilled. Now that the lugs are drilled, we need some nice springbars to go with it. My research from other build led me to OFREI’s springbars. (google it  ) These have a nice bevel at the tips, awesome. The tube is weaksauce on the MBK. It’s too small to fit a gen crown and the construction design is wrong. You can purchase24- 703 Rolex aftermarket replacements which are plentiful. Needless to say, the MBK crown will have to go. You can find used Rolex 7mm triple lock crowns pretty easily. 703 on the right. (gasket is not installed btw. ) Now we need a better insert, or at least a better pearl. I realized that like the dial, the insert is a large part of the look of the watch. I finally found an NOS on ebay. Many like the faded look (you can use bleach for a few minutes on a new bezel) or will look for thick font bezels since they are what the original watches were equipped with. 5513 bezels will also fit. You cannot use modern sub 16610 inserts or newer sea dweller inserts as they are larger in diameter. Since I am going for a more restored/serviced look, I opted for the gen replacement part. I use a razor and pry a little from each corner of the watch to remove it. I recommend using some painters tape to protect the lugs from scratches. Here is the Rolex service replacement for the 1665/5513. The service replacement insert had a thinner more modern font, but still has the nice vintage pearl. I used a few drops of Guerilla glue and a clamp to hold it in place overnight. Gen on the right. The case will need some massaging. I use a dremel and a nail file for the bulk of smoothing of pretty much all the edges. I always finish off with a felt polisher on the dremel to give it a smooth soft feel. Sharp and 90 degree corners are your enemy! Removing the caseback paint took some patience, with nail polish remover and other demel goodies. I tried to smoothen the edges of the engravings with sand paper and other dremel goodies to remove the laser etched look from MBK. I was not afraid to be liberal with a polishing compound on the case back, since, it would have been rubbing on the back side of a wrist for decades. Next is a new crystal,well acrylic. I found, DO NOT go cheap on this! Cheap plastic is hard and brittle which can lead to fitment issues. Nice plastic is soft and flexible. I opted for a Clark 25-39 Tropic superdome because it just gives the watch so much personality and makes it so much more interesting. Superdome on the left. The mbk dial is pretty dang good, but, having a unique dial just sets off the whole watch in my opinion, since it is the focus of the watch, I was not opposed to investing some $$$ into this piece. There are many different replacement dials, yuki watch, NDTrading ,etc. It really comes down to preference since none are gen. Keeping the MBK and reluming would be a good option. The MBK dial and hand lume color does not match. The hands are a more bright white like on a modern Rolex with the dial being more yellow. The lume was also missing any kind of texture and it had an almost glossy finish to it. The relume of the dial and hands not only gives them a nice matching color, but it adds texture that was missing. There are plenty of modders on the forums that can perform this. I can speack of Zigmiester and Pbdad. I will note that The Zigmeister was half the price of Pbdad. The new Rail dial and hands relumed I was not looking for a really beaten trashed “vintage” look, this pic highlights the subtle aging details and the great dial. Final assembly gave this result.

to my knowledge, the one above in Ubi's pix, is an NDTrading dial...widths of the vertical and horizontal lines are the same - which is slightly off from the gen... the one from J&W/Phong isn't bad either - but doesn't appear to be as crisp...and is pricey...this one, tho, does have the different widths of the vertical line and horizontal lines of the "T"...but the "SUBMARINER" is too large and spaced out... here's the J&W/Phong:

If those are gen dials, I would not refinish them. Sell them on VRF or ebay, and buy a couple Yuki or NDtrading dials if you want something refinished. Even the ugliest damaged dials sell for upwards of $500 these days. If you refinish it, its worth $200 or less. I also question the authenticity of those dials especially the first one. dizz

I was lucky to find genuine 16520 case set for my franken but most people use aftermarkets, some good cases were available from George who is now gone. Maybe try Phong from jewelryandwatch.com ? EDIT: Ndtrading also has a 16520 case: http://ndtradingcorp.com/zen/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=204

I have not asked for too much help over the years but I could sure use it now.. Planing to build a 16800 and currently only have the gen. 3035 movement from a 1984 Datejust that I have had for many many years. It does have the gold date wheel so I will need a new white date wheel as well. Im "assuming" the hardest part to this project is sourcing a good rep case with the appropriate lug holes to accommodate the 3035. I have seen several nice dials on e-bay from NDtrading and one other seller ranging in price from 220-400 I think I like this one My link If any memebers could chime in it would be greatly appreciated. Does the project seem doable?? Oh yea and some one in Atlanta to put it together for me

correct Chiman....I was thinking of 1960 Rolex....here's some info. I have read Rolex watches from 70's used 316L stainless... old Rolex from 60's or before used 304L stainless 316L (similar to 304L) but has 2-3% more molybdenum added, which provides more corrosion resistance than 304L then in mid 1980 switch to 904L, which contains more nickel and is 3x more expensive 904L would be better for people that have more acidic sweat, or maybe expose the Rolex to seawater where can cause more corrosion between bezel or caseback Yuki states that he uses "normal stainless"...but he would not confirm 304L or 316L I can tell you for certain...Phong bashed the hell out of Yuki cases...saying that his recent steel is inferior and the machining is poor quality compared to his. I have heard of great finish experiences with Phong 1655 cases..but you are talking about $1000 for the complete case set if you are able to get the guy down that low.....for a 1655 build this is worth it, but I'm not sure for a 1680 build....betweem GEN 1570 movement and Phong caseset....looking at $2K to $3K depending on other parts like dial and bracelet. I have not seen anyone here build using an NDTrading case set?

It IS NTD. NDtrading = Natalie's Passion = np0234. All same.

The most likely dial sources are NDtrading, Yuki & Phong. ebay is also worth searching.

The case then is wrong? i want to make some like these I see these in NDtrading and i love but is a little expensive for a rep.... (i know that hace a genuine movement, and some other gen parts but is franken rep not a gen, and 4000 usd is too much for these). Anyone know how i can make a decent rep for less money? thanks

Well the J&W case is the choice i would make if money were not an issue.. The NDtrading cases seem to have problems fitting gen crystals sometimes.. I would also be interested to hear some first hand info on the Yuki case as I am planning a similar build for this summer. As long as all the engraving is correct on the yuki case, then I think most other issues could be machined or modded out for considerably less cost that the Phong case.

A couple of years ago, while doing some reconnaissance for my Phase I '42, I located a reasonable albino Daytona dial (from a website that has since vanished into the ether), but, ultimately, I just was not sufficiently enamored with that model to pursue it..............& I think I have enough Daytonas to keep me off the streets. I wanted to use their dial, but NDtrading wanted $850 for the dial alone. When I asked why such an excessive price, they said 'dial has special paint'. I suspect, as is usually the case, the same dial will eventually begin to appear in the listings of many of our usual sources & for a reasonable price. Anyway, this cost me about $2,500 & everything except the dial & insert is gen (many parts NOS), & since I did the work myself, I know that everything is in correct working order & correct for the model Based on what I have seen, highly unlikely. And the biggest question, again, based on what I have seen, is how many (serious) problems would be lurking inside. So, if you have no other options, that is certainly 1 way to get an albino '42. But I think you can also see that you are paying dearly for the chance.

@freddy333, speaking of rare birds, when are you going to build one of these? I gotta ask, remember, I am living vicariously through you guys Also, when cruising through NDTrading's site recently, I saw this for $4k Just out of curiosity, what are the odds of someone buying this franken and actually getting one that looks as good as that picture?

Okay... let's give this another shot. The font, finish and everything about the dial looks like it's one of these: NDTrading Which would answer questions No. 2 and 3

That's what I'm thinking. If I had any money to do this, I would try the following; a. buy on of these http://www.1-pc8838.com/omse01021-planet-ocean-chrono-ssss-blkbezorg-7750-p-5858.html or this http://www.1-pc8838.com/zn00101-defy-extreme-dlcru-white-asia-7750-28800-p-7408.html b. buy one of these (and hope I actually do get this case style) http://www.kingshowbox.com/goods.php?id=3924 c. buy the dial (this is the expensive part, and I did have an aftermarket dial and decided to sell it a few months back) Now, I'd have to prep the movement by removing the date wheel and mechanism since the Daytona does not need it, but I would hope that at that point, I could install the dial, swap the hands and case from the rep and have a decent seconds at 9 Daytona with proper subdial spacing. Of course, I would have to be lucky in the following points; 1. The A7750 rep movement from the Zenith/Omega which is advertised to have subdial spacing same as El Primero actually does have said subdail spacing. 2. The dial would physically fit the case without being too small or way too big. 3. The hands from the rep Daytona would actually fit the rep movement from the Zenith/Omega (China parts are known to be of the non-standard status most of the time). 4. The distance from the dial face to the stem is the same on both A7750 movements after the date mechanism is removed from the Zenith one making the case tube to stem alignment work. At the end of the day, I still would be spending a good bit for parts that may need extensive modding to fit together if they can be fitted together at all. About $300 a peice for the two reps and about a grand for the dial (or a few hundred anyway for an aftermarket, if anybody would sell me one). I suppose Phong or NDTrading may be able to source a dial, but it still would cost. I am sure everyone is tired of hearing me cry baby over this issue by now, but consider the following. If I could conceivably do this on my bench at home and come up with something feasible, wouldn't it be that much easier for a rep producer, with access to all the mentioned parts, do the same? We have seen the rep factories turn out copies of the DSSD and the ProPlof, both are watches that have very proprietary designs that do not transfer to make other rep models, then why is it such a chore for them to do this with parts they already produce? They will probably have to do the dial design from scratch, but they all do dials so well these days, I would not think that be a major hurdle. As far as what we want as collectors not being a blip on the rep makers radar, I do feel that some of our input they do go with eventually. If they truly did not care, would we see the recently upgraded DRSDs and Subs that have better pearls, proper case markings, etc.? Would we be seeing Josh putting R and D into the vintage Explorer II, even down to the folded link bracelet, right size hands and dial markers that come to the edge of the rehaut? Oh well, I'll let this drop (as applause is heard from the crowd..), but I do like the debate on this, and maybe one day we will see either a cool franken kit to emerge, or a full on rep come to market. Ciao

Hi everyone. This is my first post in this forum, but I've been spending a lot of time reading previous post to gather information on my first replica project. I'd learned so much from this forum, and I'm about to make a purchase on Joshua's 1680 as a base watch for a 5517. But there are some questions I want to clear before I buy anything... 1. I'm planning to use NDTrading's dial with the feets relocated for 2846. Will the diameter fit the case? 2. Is tropic 19 crystal used in gen 5517? If I want to fit a gen crystal, do I need JMB's retention ring for that? And who's JMB? An address I can contact him would be great. 3. Will gen tube & crown fit this case? 4. Will aftermarket insert for gen fit? And any suggestions, tips and past experience are very much appreciated. Although, this is not my first time working with watches, but this IS my first time building a replica/tribute watch, so I need all the help I can get. Thanks for your time. Wabbit