The Noob Issue

[Guest Carl]

We've had some discussion recently about the reduction in postings from, say NOOBS, and also from the "regular" members here.

A couple of reasons for the fall off among regulars have been proposed:

The change to the site layout.

The time of the year.

The economy.

These could be factors but I think the posts are down for other reasons.

But let's move on to NOOBs.

Why would a NOOB who is looking to purchase a first rep come here?

To find a safe and inexpensive first transaction. Maybe fifty or a hundred dollars/euros. Something safe. That just does not exist here any more as a concept. Five years ago, maybe.

Today a NOOB can't avoid seeing the rep world here as a system where the entry level is 300 dollars for a starter watch which will need to be extensively modded up to maybe a thousand dollars or whatever, just to get a pass on this board. About the dollar value touted as the greatest rep watch rip off on the internet. Which is the rip off at this point? I'm not surprised that NOOBs are confused and put off.

I know that great reps can be had in a variety of price ranges, but my point is that the price range here has escalated to where a NOOB is offered nothing in the price range of a first purchase, and that first purchase will never be good enough here. Read your posts. It's become a rep modding board.

Yes, NOOBs want to know who makes the best sub. If you want to get NOOBs who will buy in and stick around, put out at least a monthly thread about who is currently making and selling the best sub in the different price ranges.

For those of you who think that we are already doing this, or that the information is easily searchable, please continue to rearrange the deck chairs on the ship you are riding down.

Rant over.

Carl

[Toadtorrent]

It's a good point. I guess some folks (myself included) have spent many hours writing up some of the stuff to help folks along and share what knowledge we have. I do recognize one of the big problems is that this huge wealth of info can easily get lost or outdated and that it needs to be kept up to date, or bumped up to become noticeable again.

It's a matter of time. Somebody needs to step in and take on the initiative to put these posts together. I've thought about doing an annual, or quarterly update to the "Best Values for <$150" thread...but it's time and effort...time and effort.

We keep hoping that someone else will take up the torch, because we have other obligations, other projects, etc.

I'll try and do my part...and I challenge others to do the same.

[MasterOfPuppets]

u have a piont there buddy

[OmegaPOFL]

well put

and being a noob myself.. exactly!

you know what would be really great? video reviews on watches.. when i first saw a panerai, i didn't know for a while, what the CG lever was there for.. now i do!! it's... um... to lever something! jk

it's true that the prices for a nice rep is atleast $250, i.e. my SOH with an asian eta 2824.. atleast i can swap the movt. out when it dies!

[lanikai]

I guess in the end you will have the people that just want to hook up.. find the dealers section ... but a rep ... that 's all she wrote ....

but the new members that have stayed ... have contributed greatly to the community.. and are greatly appreciated.

all these topics really help us find solutions to a variety of issues .. so discussion is good ... it really opens up problems whose solutions come in many forms.. and guide us through the discussion to other areas that otherwise would be left unattended.

A~C

L

[fotoman]

i post less because 1. i don't like the new board, have had a hard time with the search function

only thing that is good is the PMs turn into discussions.

also im out of $$

also i'm depressed cause im out of money and i have a bad backn annd itrs really bad right now.

[P4GTR]

The summer heat has everyone hot under the collar the past few weeks. Whew.

Our members are still privy to the best out of the box reps for their money, whether they want to take it to the next level or not is up to them.

Some of us enjoy taking pics, some modding, some just enjoy the watches.

Not everyone here sinks a grand+ into their reps, or turns them into a 90% I can't believe its not gen franken. I'm content with my barely modded pieces.

I posted a Submariner/Sea-Dweller budget shoot out in the Rolex subforum this week. Its not hidden, its on the first page. The most bang for your buck for $250 or less! As a matter of fact, I vented the same thing as you about the costs associated with buying into the RWG club as of late.

Todays standards being a BKv2 right? BT.. I'm sure you remember finding RWG. Like most, you didn't want to spend $800 on a replica Rolex right? Some of us still won't or can't.

We've come a long way. For me there still has to be some sort of limit as to how much I'm willing to throw at a fake watch before it becomes savings towards the gen. I'm ok with a few minor faults. Even WM9's are imperfect.

Thread:

[valerian]

Why would a NOOB who is looking to purchase a first rep come here?

To find a safe and inexpensive first transaction. Maybe fifty or a hundred dollars/euros. Something safe. That just does not exist here any more as a concept. Five years ago, maybe.

Hmm. I think you made a very good point there. Remember hackr's endless thread about the POrikaa? That's a good and very very affordable rep of a very popular watch and the interest was extremely lively!

See here: My new Narikaa 42mm PO; black bezel; sexy

I can see Lani's point also: Many just come here to look for information on how not to get ripped of (justification for the board in itself) then move on. We will probably encourage this by pointing out the "cheap good deals". But some of them will stay and make good contributions after a while! Let's just not shy them away by sneering at cheaper or less perfect reps!

Just my 2c

Val.

[lanikai]

Many just come here to look for information on how not to get ripped of (justification for the board in itself) then move on. We will probably encourage this by pointing out the "cheap good deals". But some of them will stay and make good contributions after a while! Let's just not shy them away by sneering at cheaper or less perfect reps!

Just my 2c

Val.

+1

[gran]

Yes, NOOBs want to know who makes the best sub. If you want to get NOOBs who will buy in and stick around, put out at least a monthly thread about who is currently making and selling the best sub in the different price ranges.

Carl

Certainly it is a good idea and maybe even do the same for other lowly priced beauties so its not POLEX all the way......maybe even the "dealers/collectors" need to work harder in the genral sections too?

[lanikai]

Certainly it is a good idea and maybe even do the same for other lowly priced beauties so its not POLEX all the way......maybe even the "dealers/collectors" need to work harder in the genral sections too?

+1 ... certainly would be a plus to get the dealers more active on the board... especially when it'll benefit them..

L

[signumboy]

I guess many end up here looking for a tips on what and where to buy. They then might make a purchase and just leave it at that, after all most just want a good copy to show off.

So the watch arrives in good order, they're happy with what they've got , and no modding required. Also are there more rep forums springing up?

[maxman]

i post less because 1. i don't like the new board, have had a hard time with the search function

only thing that is good is the PMs turn into discussions.

also im out of $$

also i'm depressed cause im out of money and i have a bad backn annd itrs really bad right now.

Im sorry to hear about your back. I had a L4 desk removed about 10 years ago. Once In a while It acts up and can be a real mother %#$@ to deal with. My back go's out more then I do Good luck with everything Mike

[Member X]

Maybe it's because I'm not so n00b any more but I was quite surprised to read Carls rant in this thread - I was under the impression that recently we seem to have been doing extremely well for reps that are 95% or more straight out of the box, and for very decent money.

I'm thinking of the $99 Milgauss that is pretty damn near-gen bar the 21J movement, the virtually perfect Ebel ($250-$300), the cheaper DSSDs that have come out recently, the $100 IWC Portuguese 1939, some of the cheap Datejusts...

All of these are great watches even if they're not 100% perfect, and for the money they're amazing. Like most people, the only reps I'd really known about before this was the Canal Street sort of reps, the ones that looked cheap and nasty. If the public in general knew what you could buy now for the money, I'm sure a lot more sales would be made of reps!

I can see where people are coming from about the fact that the less than perfect reps are sometimes not really commented on when posted up by excited buyers that have just received them, so maybe more posts congratulating them on their purchases and suggesting possible mods they might like to do if they are so inclined would be beneficial to the board? Although I don't think anyone wants this place to turn into some sort of lick-[censored] "Wowww, that's amazzzzing" post-fest LoL

Maybe we should focus more on how good a watch is rather than what's wrong with it and 'needs' to be improved?

Just my random thoughts pre-coffee on a friday morning, anyway... lol

Edited September 4, 2009 by Member X

[gran]

Maybe we should focus more on how good a watch is rather than what's wrong with it and 'needs' to be improved?

Just my random thoughts pre-coffee on a friday morning, anyway... lol

That is a revolutionary idea...maybe it will even work

I suggest having two differnt themes then 1. One Why its a good replica section (for the optimistic minded) 2. and a why it is not the perfect replica section (for the watch crazy and maybe analy retentive horoloogist = Typical RWGnut)

This will allow two different types of reviews focusing either only on 1. Why its a good replica and 2. why it is not the perfect replica.....brilliant

[Pugwash]

There is a point Noobs sometimes seem to miss, and the call for Video reviews seemed to remind me of it. That point is that no-one here is paid to do this. Reviewers don't gain anything apart from the respect of their peers. I don't mind which Seadweller or Skyland you get and I don't benefit in any way from your choice.

There's only so much you can expect us to do. What the Noobs have to do is take it upon themselves to write and post. It's how you stop being a Noob.

Too many Noobs come here with the intention of buying a rep, and not with partaking in a community. We can only spoon-feed them for so long until we just give up and leave it to the next generation of enthusiastic members to hand-hold the Noobs and teach them how it works. The problem is we've had a drop-off in activity from people patient enough and forgiving enough to tell 'em how it is, gently and kindly.

Oh, and telling people who do this for a hobby how to write and present their reviews will lead to one outcome: Less reviews.

[TeeJay]

We've had some discussion recently about the reduction in postings from, say NOOBS, and also from the "regular" members here.

A couple of reasons for the fall off among regulars have been proposed:

The change to the site layout.

The time of the year.

The economy.

These could be factors but I think the posts are down for other reasons.

But let's move on to NOOBs.

Why would a NOOB who is looking to purchase a first rep come here?

To find a safe and inexpensive first transaction. Maybe fifty or a hundred dollars/euros. Something safe. That just does not exist here any more as a concept. Five years ago, maybe.

Today a NOOB can't avoid seeing the rep world here as a system where the entry level is 300 dollars for a starter watch which will need to be extensively modded up to maybe a thousand dollars or whatever, just to get a pass on this board. About the dollar value touted as the greatest rep watch rip off on the internet. Which is the rip off at this point? I'm not surprised that NOOBs are confused and put off.

I know that great reps can be had in a variety of price ranges, but my point is that the price range here has escalated to where a NOOB is offered nothing in the price range of a first purchase, and that first purchase will never be good enough here. Read your posts. It's become a rep modding board.

Yes, NOOBs want to know who makes the best sub. If you want to get NOOBs who will buy in and stick around, put out at least a monthly thread about who is currently making and selling the best sub in the different price ranges.

For those of you who think that we are already doing this, or that the information is easily searchable, please continue to rearrange the deck chairs on the ship you are riding down.

Rant over.

Carl

There is a point Noobs sometimes seem to miss, and the call for Video reviews seemed to remind me of it. That point is that no-one here is paid to do this. Reviewers don't gain anything apart from the respect of their peers. I don't mind which Seadweller or Skyland you get and I don't benefit in any way from your choice.

There's only so much you can expect us to do. What the Noobs have to do is take it upon themselves to write and post. It's how you stop being a Noob.

Too many Noobs come here with the intention of buying a rep, and not with partaking in a community. We can only spoon-feed them for so long until we just give up and leave it to the next generation of enthusiastic members to hand-hold the Noobs and teach them how it works. The problem is we've had a drop-off in activity from people patient enough and forgiving enough to tell 'em how it is, gently and kindly.

Oh, and telling people who do this for a hobby how to write and present their reviews will lead to one outcome: Less reviews.

I agree with both these posts:

If I was a n00b, and I wanted to know 'who had the best sub', only to be pointed in the direction of BK (when I was really only looking to buy something for much less) I probably wouldn't stay around too long to find out what the community was like. I'd also see posts like "What do you expect for only $.....?!" and think 'screw you guys, I'm going home..."

I think the time has come to actually find an answer to the question: "Who has the best sub?"

I know... Rolex

But I mean not only rep-wise, but also 'entry level-wise'. And by that, I mean entry level for Joe Sixpack who doesn't give a damn about rehaut depth, CG shaping, pearl construction, but just wants a watch with Rolex on the dial, which isn't going to crap out after a few months, or fall apart at a pool-party and cause embarrassment. If someone wants to get into the fun of modding, then by all means, point them in so and so direction, but I think there also needs to be a direction to point someone who doesn't want to get into any of that, but which is still going to provide a good quality product, which would meet their requirements in a watch, rather than the requirements of someone who buys a flawed watch with the intention of modifying it.

The dealer I've been dealing with most recently, seems to be able to provide that level of product, with the level of service and customer care which people expect to find in a 'forum trusted' dealer. I'll make my next purchase from them (when I'm actually able to afford it ) an LV Sub, and I'll then do a detailed review of it, which I haven't done in a while. How does that sound as a suggestion?

[Member X]

Should we take the time to have a "Best [insert watch here]" thread but broken down into cost bandings?

Such as "The Best sub is..."

under $100 it is X

under $150 it is Y

under $250 it is...

This banding would also allow cheap watches in the lowest band to be included in the higher bands when modding is taken into account, so comparisons can be made with out of the box more expensive watches. This would also show the relative benefits of modding.

e.g.

Best under $100 = Noobmariner

Best under $250 = 'Best sub' from dealer Z, OR Noobmariner with gen bezel + pearl, gen crown, reshaped CGs and Clark Crystal (assuming work done by a watchsmith).

Just an idea!

Edited September 4, 2009 by Member X

[Pugwash]

Should we take the time to have a "Best [insert watch here]" thread but broken down into cost bandings?[...]

Just an idea!

Here's what should happen: Someone has an idea like this and, instead of suggesting it, they just do it.

Start a thread and say "I think the best Sub for $100 is the Noobmariner. For $250, I think you should get ... etc."

I know this would be valuable today because when I did it 3 years ago (in the post that coined the term Noobmariner, in fact) it was widely commented on and discussed. My post is out of date: Do a new one. You'll be respected by your peers if you do.

[TeeJay]

Should we take the time to have a "Best [insert watch here]" thread but broken down into cost bandings?

Such as "The Best sub is..."

under $100 it is X

under $150 it is Y

under $250 it is...

This banding would also allow cheap watches in the lowest band to be included in the higher bands when modding is taken into account, so comparisons can be made with out of the box more expensive watches. This would also show the relative benefits of modding.

e.g.

Best under $100 = Noobmariner

Best under $250 = 'Best sub' from dealer Z, OR Noobmariner with gen bezel + pearl, gen crown, reshaped CGs and Clark Crystal (assuming work done by a watchsmith).

Just an idea!

That's precisely the kind of thing I had in mind, but even better and more detailed

[mastrmindalliance]

Should we take the time to have a "Best [insert watch here]" thread but broken down into cost bandings?

Such as "The Best sub is..."

under $100 it is X

under $150 it is Y

under $250 it is...

This banding would also allow cheap watches in the lowest band to be included in the higher bands when modding is taken into account, so comparisons can be made with out of the box more expensive watches. This would also show the relative benefits of modding.

e.g.

Best under $100 = Noobmariner

Best under $250 = 'Best sub' from dealer Z, OR Noobmariner with gen bezel + pearl, gen crown, reshaped CGs and Clark Crystal (assuming work done by a watchsmith).

Just an idea!

As a nub I can say with authority () that this is a great idea. Though as a nub, I assure you I'd only be interested in 'best out of the box, for X dollars.

[hackR]

I've been with RWG for 10 months or so...with approximately 900 posts - some inquisitive, some informative, some supportive and some just plain dumb!

I discovered RWG, RG, RWI, TRC, etc by accident...I received a spam email for replica watches -- who hasn't received one of these?!...thankful i didn't get a virus/malware/spyware/etc, i thought for a moment...remembering that trip to Singapore where i picked up a cheapo quartz Breitling Emergency in a darkened off-street bizarre...still have it, too...with rain falling, i decided to spend the afternoon suffering thru another Buffalo Bills loss and surfing the net discovering the "Rep World"...i found RWG and RG first...and quickly decided that the knowledge, expertise, photography, comaraderie was stronger here...hell, i didn't even know what an automatic movement was or how it worked...or why some guy with amazing photography skills has a besieged walrus losing his bucket?!...

And i discovered the hobby of collecting and modding...and of marrying in photography with text...some great commentary - technical and humorous...one of the best pieces on this forum is Toad's Guide to Picking Up Women With Your Navitimer Sliderule...and "blam", i discovered the price of these "thangs" range from under $100usd to over a $1000usd...geeez, i thought, how do i hide this hobby from my wife?!...so the quest began for a Breitling...discovered the asian steelfish and order the white one...great reviews, great detail, great value...but damn, the skyland was cool, too...Christmas was approaching, a time where man-purchases can get hidden in the chaos of video game systems, ipods, jewelry for the family...so i decided on a v3 skyland after Toad's review and Lani's kind/informative post on grey vs. black dials -- a post prompted by a PM asking him for wrist shots and some thoughts...Lani didn't know me and my post count clearly showed i was a nervous buyer wanting to be ever sure?!...As i found out, quickly, guys like Toad, By-Tor, Lani, Dlduddy, HikeUSA, Ubi, Freddy, Andreww (and countless others) were patient, informative and downright cool to learn/discuss with...

I started down the path of "value" reps and when i discovered a good one, i posted info on it...my camera was months away from ever being used...but eventually, with some prodding by some members, i tried it out -- to ok results...i have decided that i buy watches for looks -- not to impress; but because i like their style, texture, feel...in my general world of existence, most people don't know a PAM from a Breitling...Upscale is a nice Seiko...There are some great designs in this world of watches...I went for that -- with reasonable pricing...i remember receiving my first rep and realizing that the flaws that are so commonly discussed and macro-ly photographed are so amazingly small that in order to see them you have to strain...but to each his own...some are obsessed with having the best rep - replicmanical perfection...i have to admit, i have spent countless hours, too, comparing details/fonts/colors/etc on some target watches...when i received the Narikaa PO as a value purchase, i was very much impressed with the quality/look/feel on a $100usd or so watch...i posted and damn was this post a monster?!...Chrgod - Lord of the Value Watch Thread - included it...I felt like I contributed in some odd way...

Anyhowwwww - what's the point of this reply?!...that this is a place to learn/discover/share/question with fellow watch nuts...and we are all different...but as in life, we need to respect that difference - praising the noob for his first purchase (flawed or not) and praising the ultramodders that put together masterpieces...moreover, we are a diverse community...what i enjoy the most is the comaraderie of this place...selling a piece to a newbie and hearing how much they like it...having some fun along the way...

We have:

great photographers

creative minds

humorous prose

incredible knowledge

sourcing experience

collaborative efforts

some humorous (and obnoxious) bantering

an amazing bizarre of pre-owned reps/gens/straps/parts

hardworking members and admin teams

friendships forged

somali pirate headshot discussions

occassional sightings of chuck norris

Ubi's marble kitchen island

Lani's cannon forearms

Sixx's wild, yet direct posts

and sexy avatars

We are RWG...and we are the best there is...and we will only be the best thru the diversity and contribution of each member..in his/her own way...(theme song of Top Gun playing in the background - ceramic, that is?!)

R-

[TeeJay]

(all I can say to that )

[Member X]

(all I can say to that )

+1 to that!

(although I still don't understand the seal/bucket avatar lol)

To the respondents to my post, I would love to do a guide on best reps under $xxx but I fear my knowledge is still too limited and I wouldn't want to mislead! I'm not too worried about looking silly (I usually manage it at least once a day lol) but I don't want to get things too wrong!

I will see what I can do though - if I can cobble something together to start from then hopefully we can all produce something good

Edited September 4, 2009 by Member X

[hackR]

+1 to that!

(although I still don't understand the seal/bucket avatar lol)

psssst...it's a walrus...