RWG Technical Posted October 5, 2010 Report Share Posted October 5, 2010 It's been a long while since I have done one of these. If memory serves me well, the last one was the Asian 2836-2 teardown. So here we go, you know the routine... Some general notes: - chrono subdial and center seconds posts are 0.19mm - main hands same size as the ETA As delivered, the watch was running +20 seconds a day fast, beat was out slightly. Here it is with the caseback off...general views, not very clean as you will see and note... Overall view of the datewheel, immediately you can tell it's no where near the same as a 7753 or even a 7750, check out the width...whoa, it's a wide one... As per normal on any A7750 series, no lube anywhere, and signs of dirty pivots and jewels... That is one wide datewheel, can't imagine why they did this... Just how wide is the new datewheel, well how about this wide, sitting on the bottom is the A7753 datewheel, on top of it with the numerals showing is a ETA 7753 datewheel, note the width differences as well as the placement of the teeth. Forget getting any replacement datewheels except from the Asian supplier. Here is the ETA 7753 datewheel installed on the movement, note the large gap on the inner edge where the teeth are located. I don't care much for this design, or should I say lack of design. Instead of inserting a pin to tension the quick dateset spring, they simply screwd a screw into the bottom of a threaded hole. Not very well thought out, and as I found out during assembly, a real challenge to get the spring in place, before the plate is installed... Here we go, typical as delivered from the A7753 movement and sweater knitting factory , lint and hairs... Teardown pictures, not much left to remove... Well at least one pivot jewel made it under the oiler... One of the common defects on all A7750 series, Hairspring is not concentric, the bottom coils are closer together than the top ones, this has to be fixed or you will have rating problems... And the rest of the jewels are dirty, as per normal... So on to the big question, is the new A7753 the same as the ETA 7753. We already know the DW is a no-go, what about form, fit, and function? First up, installing my 196 ETA 7753 into the new case, and it is a direct fit, everything lines up correctly and works. So the A7753 is a swap into the case of an ETA 7753. For comparison, here is the ETA 7753 dial side view of the datewheel, I think we are going to have a big problem with our next test... Ok, new dial from the A7753, installed on the ETA 7753, ouch, this one is way off... By comparison, here is the 196 dial installed on the ETA 7753, note that the date is centered up and down and side to side... Servicing is next...so off to the Ultrasonic cleaner for a cleaning, 3 rinses, a blow dry (and set )later, all the parts and pieces are inspected under a 10X loupe, no problems or defects noted other than the normal A7750(3) issues that exist on all these movements. All the defects and problems are fixed, and the movement is assembled and oiled and tested at each stage of assembly... Example of oiling... Hairspring has been fixed, note that all the spacing between all the coils are the same... The escapment is the most critical part of any movement, if it's not checked, adjusted, and oiled correctly you are going to have timekeeping issues. The drops are checked on each pallet and on each of the 15 escape wheel teeth, the draw is checked and so is the run to the banking, along with the balance wheel end and side shake, hairspring centering, horizontal and vertical, regulator pin spacing etc. One of the most critical oiling requirements is the escape wheel to pallet stone interface. Oil is only allowed on the face of the pallet as well as the escape wheel, there should be a slight "wedge" of oil between all of the escape wheel teeth, and the entry and exit stones, here is what to look for... So we have our movement fully assembled, on the tester it goes, and after adjusting the beat and rate, here is the timing in all 3 positions adjusted to +7 seconds fast per 24 hours...it's running excellent, as good as any ETA... General views of the final assembly, you can note how much cleaner the movement is now after cleaning...compared to the first pictures... Here's that spring again, hooked in place and ready for the calendar plate to be installed. Don't let it's mild mannered appearance fool you, it's a bastard waiting to snap off into never never land...hold your breath until you get the next plate installed... Overall thoughts... The movement is no better or worse than any A7750. There has never been any problems or concerns with any A7750 series movements, at least no problems that a correct servicing can't address. Serviced correctly, and all the typical defect and issues fixed, and it will be a great movement. None of the ETA parts compatible with this A7753, so if you break something, forget fixing it... Too bad they didn't simply copy the ETA 7753 exactly, especially the datewheel and the minute counter gears. There is no excuse for the datewheel being what it is... Finally, thank you to member w0lf for sending this to me, and prodding me to do a review. My time is very limited lately and I wasn't interested in doing the review simply due to the hours it consumes...but I think this is good for the community, at least you know what I know, and now you can make an informed decision. Thanks for reading, hopefully you find this helpful. If you have any questions, or if I missed something, please ask, I'll do my best to answer them... Update. Dial lume was not as good as I initially thought, so I lumed it in Super Luminova C3 Half the dial lumed, and the subdial at 6 "2", "3", and "6" lumed More views: SUPER Luminova on LEFT, Rep lume on RIGHT Super Lume C3 Rep as delivered lume... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b16a2 Posted October 5, 2010 Report Share Posted October 5, 2010 Once again Zigmeister, a fantastic review. One thing I don't understand (that you have also highlighted) is why they didn't take the E7753 and just copy it...must be much harder to construct a similar movement when you can just copy the parts in a mould!? All well and good until something breaks and replacement parts aren't about! Thansk for the great read Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dluddy Posted October 5, 2010 Report Share Posted October 5, 2010 Very helpful to the community Zig. Thanks for taking the time to document this. Any conjecture as to why they jury rigged the DW that way instead of a proper 7753 layout? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllergyDoc Posted October 5, 2010 Report Share Posted October 5, 2010 Thanks for this as I have one of these on the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted October 6, 2010 Report Share Posted October 6, 2010 :good: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWG Technical Posted October 6, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 6, 2010 I can't understand the reasons for not copying exactly the ETA 7753, if your going to tool up and create a new movement, may as well copy one that's proven and has spare parts available... Thanks for the comments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eton Posted October 6, 2010 Report Share Posted October 6, 2010 Fantastic review! Thanks for taking the time, it's greatly appreciated and very beneficial to the community! But yeah, why not make it a proper 7753??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bike Mike Posted October 6, 2010 Report Share Posted October 6, 2010 I can't understand the reasons for not copying exactly the ETA 7753, if your going to tool up and create a new movement, may as well copy one that's proven and has spare parts available... Thanks for the comments. That is the Million Dollar question! Did they really tool up or did they just figure they could modify similar parts that are already tooled up to make what was needed here. Minimal investment... Anyway, great review as always Z! Would love to get a lesson in working over a hairspring! Too scared to touch one yet other then a little tweaking to stop it from rubbing the bridge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redwatch Posted October 6, 2010 Report Share Posted October 6, 2010 Fantastic tear down and detailed review! Thank you so much for doing that! We all know how precious your time is and we really appreciate you spending some time on this. A shame they "invented" their own new movement. Really quite odd as they would have a HUGE market share if they just made a 1:1 copy of the ETA movement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmeister Posted October 6, 2010 Report Share Posted October 6, 2010 Ziggy- Much thanks for making the time to do this. After all the speculation and with the number of folks interested in the reps with these movements it is an invaluable review. It will help a lot of folks make their decision as to purchase or not and also whether to promptly go for a service. So I will lead with the questions (whether silly or not). Does the new date transfer system make the changeover transfer mechanism any more or less reliable than the original A7750 196? Is the date pusher transfer system comparable to the ETA 7753 which isn't that reliable even on the ETA version. If you don't service it and then it busts is there a significant risk that the repair will be more difficult without the proper oiling, cleaning, etc having already been done. Should I simply be factoring in a service at the time I buy the watch or do I wait for it to die first? Thanks, W PS I am hoping the whacky datewheel configuration has something to do with future 7753 based reps but who knows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hiker01 Posted October 6, 2010 Report Share Posted October 6, 2010 As usual...the Chinese style....one step forward...two steps back! Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr! I guess I'll wait until V5 comes out! Thanks, R- for taking the time! Great tear down review as usual from the Master! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mactower Posted October 6, 2010 Report Share Posted October 6, 2010 The Zigmeister, Thank you so much for the time and effort you put into this review, I really do appreciate the detail in reading through it. Cheers! M. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P4GTR Posted October 6, 2010 Report Share Posted October 6, 2010 Awesome! Thanks for this, Zig. Always good to see you around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
By-Tor Posted October 6, 2010 Report Share Posted October 6, 2010 Zig's movement reviews = Things that everybody should read. These are always top class... the best and most professional reviews of the whole rep watch community. Whenever someone asks me about a movement, I refer him to these articles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
14060 or 16610? Posted October 6, 2010 Report Share Posted October 6, 2010 Bravo. Excellent review, especially the pictures. I posted an A7753 thread as well, but you answered all the questions that I didn't. Great job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toadtorrent Posted October 6, 2010 Report Share Posted October 6, 2010 I can't understand the reasons for not copying exactly the ETA 7753, if your going to tool up and create a new movement, may as well copy one that's proven and has spare parts available... That is a funny one R...very funny indeed. Great write-up and photos of course. Thanks w0lf for prodding El Zig, and thanks Zig for doing this up!!! It's good to know that it's at least a reliable movement...just needs the usual work done to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KB Posted October 6, 2010 Report Share Posted October 6, 2010 What would we do without you Ziggy. Once again a fantastic breakdown review. My guess on the DW is that somewhere along the production line it saved them a few bucks. Chinese seem to never look at the big picture and are more concerned with whats in it for them here and now. Ken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertk Posted October 6, 2010 Report Share Posted October 6, 2010 Great and valuable review, Zig. Reading this makes me realize that I'll wait on these movements. Getting spare parts is key to keeping these going for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drulee Posted October 6, 2010 Report Share Posted October 6, 2010 As usual an excellent review. Looks like the main benefit for us PAM freaks, will be the introduction of a great case that will accept an ETA7753 without any modification. Unfortunately we'll also have to rely on DSN, or old stock, for our dials. Other than that, not much point in having an A7753 in any 'keeper' rep, as parts' sources are non-existant and it seems its design may be prone to problems down the road... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxman Posted October 6, 2010 Report Share Posted October 6, 2010 Thank you so much Zig,you are the man,thank you sir Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephane Posted October 6, 2010 Report Share Posted October 6, 2010 Very interresting and a reference for all of us. Thanks Monsieur Zig ...and wow, indeed, why the hell they didn't simply copy? In short, that movement is useless for us as we can't use anything else but the rep dials to fit it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leitztozeiss Posted October 6, 2010 Report Share Posted October 6, 2010 Thank you The Zigmeister! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siesta181 Posted October 6, 2010 Report Share Posted October 6, 2010 Man.. kinda regret selling off one of my daylights now.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrbigandwonderful Posted October 6, 2010 Report Share Posted October 6, 2010 Great stuff. Thanks for taking the time and effort to do this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crystalcranium Posted October 6, 2010 Report Share Posted October 6, 2010 Ive been waiting for an A7753 for 5 years. I'm certain we will see improvements over the next 18 months and it is good news that once serviced, the engineering is solid. I agree that the idiosyncracies are probably the simple product of money saving decisions along the production line. Thanks Zig for the review and pics. When I look at that parts tray full of metal gears and springs small enough to blow away with a stray breath, I wonder "how does he work in this micro world?". Better eyes and steadier hands than I have no doubt. Excellent stuff...as usual. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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