Building A "Super Franken" 1680

[panerai153]

I’m looking at a hypothetical situation here for the most part. Watch in question is and old MBW 1680 (original Polex Design) White letter dial. The following mods have been done to the watch.

Genuine 127 Crystal

Genuine Bezel insert and pearl

Genuine Crown/tube

ETA 2846-2 movement

Crown guards shaped /lug holes drilled

Now here is the question. Would you, if you could, take this watch to the next step, which would be a genuine 1570 movement, Dial and hands? Or some combination of the above such as 1570 movement, very good re-finished dial Clark hands for instance. Or would you leave it as is, possibly save up your coins, sell the watch and find a reasonable genuine 1680?

I’m asking this really as a hypothetical question, as I’m neck deep in a DRSD 1665 project right now, but this could possibly be a future project. At the present time, I’m leaning a little more toward selling this and a couple of other watches, and using the money toward a genuine. Using Freddy’s guide (price/value ratio) ,it’s hard to justify spending around half of the price of a genuine on a franken, no matter how good it is. Let me know what you all think. I know quite a few folks have taken their 1680 to the level of Super franken. How do you guys feel about it now? Would you have been better off in the long run putting that money toward a genuine?

[JoeyB]

This is a hobby that you can get very carried away with. I can afford a genuine Rolex GMT. I can't justify the price. I love the watch, pretty much every model, too. And I've discovered other brands that caught my eye because of these forums. Maybe I'm just cheap, but I just can't see spending $4K to$40K for a watch regardless how much I love it. Especially when a $50 quartz watch is more functionally accurate. So, for me, reps fit very nicely. For under $400 I can have a watch that I like, not worry about being mugged for it, and make it not discernible  from a genuine to everyone except those here.  

freddy has the right idea. Everyone needs to determine what it's worth to themselves. I spent more on my 6542 than I ever planned to. And I know me, I'm going to 'play' with it more. Heck, I already am! And I've got two other projects in the works, and tweaks to the rest as they come up. I've got a small collection of 13 watches that cost me less than one gen. I know I'd never dive into a $4K genuine, and I'd think most here wouldn't either. So all that I'd have in a gen is money.  My replicas all have my heart and soul and fingers in them.  

 From a 'practical' fact our modded reps, and especially a Super Franken, are as good and arguably better than a genuine. From a 'practical' view even a 'Super Franken' is still a replica, never a genuine. So it seems to me that it all boils down to what each individual wants. Everything from desire to practicality and everything in between works. It's simply what's right for you. 

[highoeyazmuhudee]

id say forget the movement. i was in a similar quandary with my 5513, but the price of the gen movement is around $1300-$1600. add that to the cost of the other gen parts and im in over the used asking price for a gen 5513 which has a gen case (cant source separately) and a gen bracelet. some watches it may be worth it, such as the double red if you get a gen dial and everything else. but for the 5513 and 1680, its a tough call, you need to be on the look out for bargains to make it worth it.

[panerai153]

id say forget the movement. i was in a similar quandary with my 5513, but the price of the gen movement is around $1300-$1600. add that to the cost of the other gen parts and im in over the used asking price for a gen 5513 which has a gen case (cant source separately) and a gen bracelet. some watches it may be worth it, such as the double red if you get a gen dial and everything else. but for the 5513 and 1680, its a tough call, you need to be on the look out for bargains to make it worth it.

I think you are pretty much right, although I have a recently serviced 1570 with silver datewheel and the 1680 calandar date disc offered to me for 950.00 USD, so if i can pick up a dial for 250-300 a set of Clark hands, I'm in for another1300.00 USD plus the costs of getting it all put together say another 300.00 USD or around 1600.00 USD total. But, when you figure that the watch in it's present state of modding would be worth about 700-800 USD then the sale of the watch plus the parts and labor costs (1600.00USD) total 2300-2400 hundred USD, would be more than half the price of a genuine.

Here is the other quandry we are faced with. More than likely if you purchase a genuine 1680 in fairly good shape, it isn't going to lose much or any value if it's kept up. the rep Super franken on the other hand is probably only worth the sum of the parts, with a very limited market. How many folks here have put watches on the sales forum for 2500-3000 USD (which in a lot of cases is less than they have in the watch) only to see them languish unsold. In several cases, the seller ends up breaking the watch up and selling the genuine parts to try to get some of his money back.this was the priomary reason i got out of reps several years ago, i got killed on several highly modded MBW Subs and SD's, wheras my genuine watches were selling for about what I payed for them. So my feelings are if you are going to mod a few really nice watches, and wear them for a long time, then you can justify spending a fair amount of money on them, if however you fall into and out of love with watches on a regular basis, and none stay around too long, then probably the best and safest course would be genuine watches or reps that you wear out the box and don't spend a lot of money on.

I'm just throwing this out as food for thought, to get ideas and opinions from members whoo are on both sides of the modding fence, those that believe that it isn't complete until it's been "Tweaked' to the max, and the other side who have no interest in modding at all.

[alligoat]

You know A, I think you should stick with your nicely modded 1680. Or sell it and put the money towards a gen 1680. They run around $5K, but maybe you could find a fixer upper in the $4K range and add parts as the funds become available.

I bought my 1680 for $2450 back in 2006 and serviced it twice and put a gen 93150/580 on it ($300). Still have the original bezel insert and 702 crown and tube. The dial is in very good shape as are the hands- late '78, I figure it's worth around $5K conservatively.

A few years ago I built a 5508 franken. I like the watch, but I'll never do it again. I spent $2500 building it and a gen probably runs $10K and up. But a franken just isn't the same as having a gen.

Then I saw a nice 5508 eta from Yuki for a very reasonable price- $360! At that price you can buy some gen parts and away you go!

[Stephane]

I build a reasonable 1680 White. (No gen mov, no gen dial).

Then sold it and got myself a beautifull and genuine 1978 1680.

I sold the gen as I needed to fund a car and now I'm building a franken 1680 with gen dial but no gen mvt.

I would leave your 1680 as it is and enjoy it while you save funds for a gen.

Once my financial health will be better again, I'll buy a gen 1680 again for sure

[automatico]

"Would you, if you could, take this watch to the next step, which would be a genuine 1570 movement, Dial and hands? Or some combination of the above such as 1570 movement, very good re-finished dial Clark hands for instance. Or would you leave it as is, possibly save up your coins, sell the watch and find a reasonable genuine 1680? "

I have a genuine non hack 1570 and fair submariner dial from a rotted out 1680 and have ordered a '1680' case. I will tell how it goes.

http://cgi.ebay.com/DIY-CASE-SET-VALJOUX-1570-1560-movement-/230540907942?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35ad4f15a6

"id say forget the movement. i was in a similar quandary with my 5513, but the price of the gen movement is around $1300-$1600. add that to the cost of the other gen parts and im in over the used asking price for a gen 5513 which has a gen case (cant source separately) and a gen bracelet. some watches it may be worth it, such as the double red if you get a gen dial and everything else. but for the 5513 and 1680, its a tough call, you need to be on the look out for bargains to make it worth it."

Very good advice imho.

If I was going to make up a submariner, I would go for a 5513 or 5512...no date wheel color/mounting hassles...use a 2846, not a 1520/1570...use a yuki etc dial...go with genuine crown and genuine spec aft/mkt case tube.

As for saving up for a genuine 1680...I would not consider one at today's insane prices because I have owned them for around $700 in the past.

I see the 1680 as a $1000 watch and if one comes along for $1k, I'll snatch it up to go with my $800 1675.

[ubiquitous]

AP-

If you are going to build a gen movement franken, it would be best not to use the MBW case for that particular reference. The rehaut/dial opening is too small for a 1680 and will be an instant giveaway to anyone that knows what a 1680 should look like.

As for whether it's worth it to do such a build; that's a purely individual decision. A franken will never be a gen, but to me, my builds are worth so much more to me on a personal level. Anyone can buy a gen... But not everyone can build their own, however.

[panerai153]

AP-

If you are going to build a gen movement franken, it would be best not to use the MBW case for that particular reference. The rehaut/dial opening is too small for a 1680 and will be an instant giveaway to anyone that knows what a 1680 should look like.

As for whether it's worth it to do such a build; that's a purely individual decision. A franken will never be a gen, but to me, my builds are worth so much more to me on a personal level. Anyone can buy a gen... But not everyone can build their own, however.

Thanks Ubi,

Your info along with all the other good advice i got from others here have convinced me that this isn't the project I want to do. I believe that the best alternative would be to keep it as is, save up muy pennies and try to fnd a nice 1680. I have had two of them (Genuine) in my lifetime, and i sold both of them before I realized that they were "collectible". I would really like to have another at some point in time to hand down to my son, who also likes and appreciates good watches.

[Ronin]

I have all the parts to build a a 1680 with ALL GEN parts except the mid-case is Yuki.

I fail to start the project, because 1.) The 1603 with serviced donor movement is cool, and sanding the calendar ring (pie-pan) makes me hesitate. and 2.) Doing the math I would be pushing $2100 HEAD ONLY.

I am tempted to cut the dial feet off the gen dial, and use a Yuki -ETA- Conversion and power it with a 2846.

[ubiquitous]

I am tempted to cut the dial feet off the gen dial, and use a Yuki -ETA- Conversion and power it with a 2846.

If you go the route of using a 2846, I think you'd be better off keeping the gen dial as-is and finding an aftermarket dial to use for your project instead.

[Dizzy]

Has anyone used that DW1680 case? Does he do custom engraving? Looks like they come blank.