First attemt at Pad printing of a 1016 OCC explorer

[praetor]

So here's the story for those who's interested in a nutshell:

I'm a cash strapped Rolex WIS, with no aftermarket dials good enough to put in your rolexes.

Thus, I thought I'll give pad printing a whirl

First I've bought a very old pad printing machine for $70 off you know where:

Then, with my trusty inkjet, I've printed some film positives of a dial I've made myself from some scans off some auction site.

I've made a couple of plates, and screwed it on with some c-clamps.

*skip techinical stuff* and arrived at the final result:

The problem was that the ink was not picked up by the pad. And this could mean a number of issues:

At first I thought I've made the plates wrong. So I've tried remaking the plates with some modifications to increase the etch depth, it turned out worse than the first plates. After some research however,it turned out that I've made the plates correctly to begin with.

After a while, I've figured that the ink might be the problem since I've used some cheapo oil based paint with liquin additive. But again, after some more research, it turns out that this indeed does work. Finally, I've narrowed down the culprit to the biggest problem of all :the pad. Which, by my estimates is about 15 years old. Thus, i've ordered a new pad which unfortunately will come in a month or so since it's custom fitted for my very old machine.

Anyways, if you ever wonder what a red 1016 explorer look like, wonder no further: (butchered the bad plates)

[freddy333]

Very interesting. Once you perfect the procedure (you can get dial blanks from Ofrei, etc), I imagine you will be kept very busy.

[JoeyB]

I think the dial is key to any vintage build. We can mod cases, and good, reasonably priced aftermarket inserts are readily available, ETA movements are very acceptable. But the dial has has us at the mercy of high dollar gen or overpriced "refinished' that are not entirely accurate. The advantage of your printed, and my water-slide decal is the computer. We can accurately copy and print any dial on the internet. I've made probably several hundred prints of dials now, most not even mounted, and am still learning. That is the key to making the dial, learning the nuances of your method and then reaching for perfection. The initial dials I made for my 6542 and 6204 are long gone, improved many times each. And I've even made the plastic insert for the 6542 using the decal. Keep at it, when it gets frustrating I just walk away and come back later. It seems to be addictive. There is no question that your print is the preferred method, as will be an engraved 6542 insert that's being worked on now. Your success will open up many more opportunities for others to build with.

Oh, and as freddy said. Otto Frei has blank, white painted dials for the ETA movements. At about $4 each they save a lot of work.

Edited May 15, 2011 by JoeyB

[mastergod]

Very interesting. Once you perfect the procedure (you can get dial blanks from Ofrei, etc), I imagine you will be kept very busy.

x2

As the Sage said - just keep going

[TeeJay]

Excellent first results, keep going, they'll be awesome

[praetor]

Thanks guys. Need a little bit of R&R. Gonna continue once I get a new pad, doctor blade. Currently researching new inks and compositions hmm.. :g:

[Jkay]

Im curious .. why do you use a conical pad; I watched a few YouTube videos about pad printing after reading this post, and the pads are all flat bottomed.

[praetor]

it is recommended to use a conical pad since it reproduces the most accurate print due to sharper angles = more rolling over. hmm ..I just noticed they use a putty knife for a doctor blade ! no wonder I was having so much problems.

skip to 2:00

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93W5AvdBMxE&playnext=1&list=PL53539F587BBE49FA

Edited May 16, 2011 by praetor

[lhooq]

Very promising! And even if all you ever produce is a 1016 dial with a minute track... I'm in!

[Jkay]

I've never done this but it seems to me that a metal putty knife would absolutely ruin your plate.

[krpster]

Very very cool. Amazing to take this on. Initial results look pretty good IMHO based on starting from nothing. Good on you mate for giving it a go!

[highoeyazmuhudee]

cool attempt

[praetor]

the plates are surprisingly hardy. I've tried jabbing it with a knife and didn't even scratch it. Based on my calculations the paint I've bought in the art store costs 2 times more than if I were to buy ink from the supplier >.<

art store = $160 per litre

supplier ink specific for pad printing = $70 per litre.

the only difference is that I have to buy more ink from the supplier.

And yea LHQQ, I blame you for showing me the explorer because now I want it =D

Edited May 16, 2011 by praetor

[stilty]

good on you! Pad printing is tricky. I have one, but it is the ceramic cup, so it charges the plate and wipes it at the same time. It is tricky mixing the ink, hardener and thinner. You have to take into account humidity, and other factors to get perfect clean prints. plus, it is a [censored] to clean up and very smelly. The cleaners are more expensive then the ink. I bought all my supplies from a guy in Toronto who restores dials, and is a distributor of inks and supplies. he gave me a lot of advise. I still have not perfected the process.

These are the inks that I use:

http://www.marabu-inks.com/products/overview/pad-printing-inks/detail-view/products/Tampapur-161.html

good luck with the project.

[mjmj]

Great effort mate. I look forward to your updates.

[Migge]

This looks interesting!

Great work

[praetor]

Thanks stilty,

That's exactly the reason why I tried to avoid using inks in the first place, since they smell like ether and I would have to wear protective equipment. I'll update this thread in a month or so.

[praetor]

Also, I bought my supplies from the the sales rep in pickering for inkcups now. I'm experimenting using alkyd based paint and liquin (in order to reduce viscosity) as what this guy did: http://forums.timezone.com/index.php?t=tree&goto=3752922&rid=0. So far, I can't decide whether the paint is too thick or the pad is too old, since the machine did come with a vhs instructions tape.

[Dizzy]

Very cool. All the dial printers I have seen are also conical like that.

But, wheres the underline??

lol

[Ephry73]

After the printing is done, just solder the feet to the dial?

E

[praetor]

More like glue feet on the dial or glue the dial straight on the movement. I don't have soldering equipment .

well, I picked up the project again after 3 months of hellish summer. I got a new pad. This is one of the prototypes using plates I cut up into pieces in order to save money. It made the plates warp. Needs further refinement though--> decreasing etch depth if you understand what I meant. The ink blots outside what I intended to print. This one is with the deepest etch depth. Planning to do more tonight. Overall, it's light years ahead from what I had 3 months ago. And I'm much more confident I can do better.

Edited August 26, 2011 by praetor

[dbutlerman]

Can't wait to see where this is in another 3 months...Custom dials for all

[Jkay]

Congrats on sticking with this and coming back for more tries! Cant wait to see what you come up with next.

[praetor]

*scratches head*.. seems like the plate is deteriorating due to my first couple of doctor blading. Traced the problem back to the film positives... sigh..

Can someone confirm what I'm seeing in the gen dials. It looks as if the numerals are engraved. If so, I can just etch plates as a base for printing dial. GEN below:

[lhooq]

Can someone confirm what I'm seeing in the gen dials. It looks as if the numerals are engraved. If so, I can just etch plates as a base for printing dial. GEN below:

I used to think that the depressions were symptomatic of a refinished dial, but I think you may be right. Check out this picture from 10Past:

Under normal lighting, the topography of the dial doesn't look unusual: