chronoluvvv Posted June 22, 2011 Report Share Posted June 22, 2011 if PT hacked into Josh & Andrew's websites, why aren't they confronting him about it ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest zeleni kukuruz Posted June 22, 2011 Report Share Posted June 22, 2011 All of the involved got warnings i think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andreww Posted June 22, 2011 Report Share Posted June 22, 2011 (edited) If the allegations can be proven, action should be taken. If a dealer will resort to that kind of thing, how can they be trusted in day to day business. That said, Josh isn't exatly clean as a whistle, although he has been a lot more reputable over the past few years. Remember, there is no honor among thieves. Edited June 22, 2011 by andreww Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
importr Posted June 22, 2011 Report Share Posted June 22, 2011 If i recall correctly, the Cartel have been known for underhand tactics in the past. So this new revelation is not such a surprise to me. Dirty business is what it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samurai Posted June 22, 2011 Report Share Posted June 22, 2011 Yes, there were allegations of cartel pressurizing some other dealers to sell @ a higher price / price fixing a few years back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gran Posted June 22, 2011 Report Share Posted June 22, 2011 price fixing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted June 22, 2011 Report Share Posted June 22, 2011 If the allegations can be proven, action should be taken. If a dealer will resort to that kind of thing, how can they be trusted in day to day business. That said, Josh isn't exatly clean as a whistle, although he has been a lot more reputable over the past few years. Remember, there is no honor among thieves. Exactly so... If i recall correctly, the Cartel have been known for underhand tactics in the past. So this new revelation is not such a surprise to me. Dirty business is what it is. Angus was originally part of the Cartel, so no surprise at all... Yes, there were allegations of cartel pressurizing some other dealers to sell @ a higher price / price fixing a few years back. And of advertising product X, when it was in reality product Y. All these reasons are why I never used any of the Cartel dealers, and still refuse to do so. Joshua has been better over the past few years, and I have seen instances when he has gone above and beyond to help a client, but I still wouldn't do business with any of them. Just my .2c on the issue... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seventhexile Posted June 22, 2011 Report Share Posted June 22, 2011 Just to clarify... RWI banned him for good reason. When the [censored] hit the fan with the 'cartel' dealers RWI gave them the boot. David don't overly glorify the memory. When all was said and done it was quite simple. Don't [censored] about Greg, he was always a good guy an had no intention of becoming 'the main dealer' or what ever [censored] your trying to spout... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
importr Posted June 22, 2011 Report Share Posted June 22, 2011 I actually don't have a problem with buying from any of the cartel or ex-cartel dealers. Since they all give roughly the same level of service. I suppose i have no morals! What I do have a problem with, is dealers who don't make good any problems that arise from their sales. The politics are just a sideshow as far as I'm concerned. I've had worse experiences with independent dealers, to be honest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest zeleni kukuruz Posted June 22, 2011 Report Share Posted June 22, 2011 This topic can onely get wors from here on!!! Before someone gets hurt or mad and does somthing he will regret i think its wise to just let this go and lock this topic! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted June 22, 2011 Report Share Posted June 22, 2011 I actually don't have a problem with buying from any of the cartel or ex-cartel dealers. Since they all give roughly the same level of service. I suppose i have no morals! What I do have a problem with, is dealers who don't make good any problems that arise from their sales. The politics are just a sideshow as far as I'm concerned. I've had worse experiences with independent dealers, to be honest. Absolutely, and credit where credit's due, Josh's clients always sing his praises when it comes to aftersales care, I can't fault him on that. The flip side of course, being that the only major issues I have experienced (wrong watch delivered, watches delivered with major QC issues, and missing parcels) have occurred while using a forum-trusted dealer, Silix... Indy dealers who there were issues with the watches, (two issues on two watches from two different dealers) always took care of the issue in the way as would be expected of a forum dealer The best example, is from years back when I bought a 4th gen Planet Ocean from a dealer on LoudFrog (traded as WoMart, signed their emails as Cartoon) After a while, the threads gave out so the crown wouldn't screw down (known fault with the watch, not an issue) but not only did they take it back for repair, but also sent me a Pumpkin PO gratis as an apology, when returning my own watch... Now that, was good service... I guess it's just hit and miss and luck of the draw in that regards [Edit to add] It's a bit like no matter how much a friend tells you another of their friends is okay, you always think they're a douche and keep them at arm's length... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andreww Posted June 22, 2011 Report Share Posted June 22, 2011 The best example, is from years back when I bought a 4th gen Planet Ocean from a dealer on LoudFrog (traded as WoMart, signed their emails as Cartoon) You talking about Paul? There were endless complaints when he traded here. He was famous for the ole "bait and switch". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted June 22, 2011 Report Share Posted June 22, 2011 You talking about Paul? There were endless complaints when he traded here. He was famous for the ole "bait and switch". I'm not sure... I have heard talk on forum of someone called Paul who traded as WoMart, but this particular person always signed their emails Cartoon, and lived in Thailand, so maybe not the same person? Either way, I can't complain about the service I received after getting a gratis watch, on what was a known fault of the 4th gens Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andreww Posted June 22, 2011 Report Share Posted June 22, 2011 Don't [censored] about Greg, he was always a good guy an had no intention of becoming 'the main dealer' or what ever [censored] your trying to spout... I agree, Greg was one of the few people on these boards that took the well being of the membership seriously. He was dealing at minimal or no profit. As an example my V3 Skyland cost me $150! Too bad he isn't around anymore Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dluddy Posted June 22, 2011 Report Share Posted June 22, 2011 Guys, the dealers have been attacking each other since the dawn of time. This is a competitive business and let's not forget, an illegal one for them. As a forum, it is not in our charter to police the dealer to dealer activities. We are here to educate our members and act as a place to share experiences and our love for all things watches. Why would we ban a dealer for attacking another dealer's site when we know that they have all done it? Dealers that get removed from this forum are ones who have done wrong by the forum membership. There was none of that here, aside from the inconvenience of a few sites being down. If you recall, all of the dealer's mentioned in this thread have had their sites attacked in the same timeframe. Stop trying to create drama. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertk Posted June 22, 2011 Report Share Posted June 22, 2011 Wow, a little drama being played out. This reminds me of the old days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coolfire Posted June 22, 2011 Report Share Posted June 22, 2011 Wow, a little drama being played out. This reminds me of the old days. Yep, albeit mild. Neil, anyone? Sent from my HDroid2 using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Movementum Posted June 22, 2011 Report Share Posted June 22, 2011 (edited) Does this board have a policy on this sort of thing? Is price fixing equivalent to anti-competitive behavior such as hacking? And has the allegation of hacking been proven? These are key questions. That said, from my own personal view, I think hacking a site is a more malicious action than price fixing or pressuring other dealers. It certainly cost Josh money. I was going to pull the trigger on the DSSD and another watch. The hack hit and I couldn't. Now I'm stuck in postal strike land and the watches have turned into a vacation at my wife's request. Price fixing may impact my decision to buy or not buy. A hack impacts my ABILITY to buy. The former is my choice and my consent. The latter is someone else making a choice against my consent. Edited June 22, 2011 by Movementum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gran Posted June 22, 2011 Report Share Posted June 22, 2011 Neil Neil would certainly have made the better drama out of this thread, yes....but alas he is not here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanuq Posted June 22, 2011 Report Share Posted June 22, 2011 Suffice to say that no one person has all the details about what happened with the attack. We had a major battle over this in the Admin group over 11 pages and 3 weeks' time. Some very serious words were said, we lost a long time valued member, which REALLY pisses me off, and in the end we decided, through gritted teeth, that we are not the international police for watch activities. Because a dealer is listed here, it does not imply our tacit endorsement. It means we tolerate them. The Sword of Damocles hangs over each one's head. When the "facts" are ambiguous, we can ban everyone remotely associated with it, or we can tell the involved parties that we know approximately what has happened, and we will not let that stench infect RWG. VERY strict warnings were given, and some people are on an extremely short leash. I'll leave this thread open awhile longer, because THIS IS WHY WE EXIST. To share information, good and bad. To out scammers and to support the good guys. If you see something you like, support it. If you see something you don't like, vote with your wallet. The dealers need us a heckuva lot more than we need them. 'Nuff said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dluddy Posted June 22, 2011 Report Share Posted June 22, 2011 Not our battle movementum. We are not Private Investigators. As far a price fixing goes....How are we expected to police that? At then end of the day, we all know that prices on reps have crept up over the past 5-6 years but so has the quality. Our self-policing approach to trading has served us well. When dealers try to charge too much we either buy or not-buy at the end of the day. I do believe that the group of dealers we have active here provide us a good product at a fair price. your mileage may vary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kravaff Posted June 22, 2011 Report Share Posted June 22, 2011 Stop trying to create drama. I must say that even though I have been reading threads on this forum for over 2 years now I havent voiced my opinion mostly do to my limited understanding of the watch world but also due to other reasons. But this is just too much. Making acusations and without supporting them with nothing but "Ive been banned from all the forums for being a freedom fighter is pure bull" Dave is a known drama queen posting 4th grade threads titled "Joshua's site being hacked and who was behind it..." is sure not out to improve his reputation. If anything should be banned is making public accusations may they or may not be true. So +100 on cutting the drama and getting back to the educating watch issues and less educating testosterone thriving threads of my d**k is bigger than yours, check the hair on my wrists and new rims on my ride. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Movementum Posted June 22, 2011 Report Share Posted June 22, 2011 Not our battle movementum. We are not Private Investigators. As far a price fixing goes....How are we expected to police that? At then end of the day, we all know that prices on reps have crept up over the past 5-6 years but so has the quality. Our self-policing approach to trading has served us well. When dealers try to charge too much we either buy or not-buy at the end of the day. I do believe that the group of dealers we have active here provide us a good product at a fair price. your mileage may vary You may want to re-read my last sentence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kravaff Posted June 22, 2011 Report Share Posted June 22, 2011 And for those who may or may not know this, are you really expecting fair play from a mafia syndicate run industry? Peculiar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanuq Posted June 22, 2011 Report Share Posted June 22, 2011 Let me also add that it's been very informative observing who's closely watching this thread as it develops in the open. Yeah ... I see you down there at the bottom. You're on thin ice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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