what2 Posted July 25, 2011 Report Share Posted July 25, 2011 I have a couple of cases laying around that eventually will be part of a snowflake project. In the meantime I saw this movement, hands and dial on the bay and could not resist. Parts all fit an eta movement (thoretically at least), but come mounted on a chinese movement. Given my long history of screwing up keyless works by removing the stem in the wrong position - where should the crown be when I pull it out? By the way the seiko 7s26 is the best I have seen, in that the lever you push is only visible when the crown is in the correct place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1680 Posted July 25, 2011 Report Share Posted July 25, 2011 I remove the stem in the time setting position and I don't have any problems with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martyd3 Posted July 25, 2011 Report Share Posted July 25, 2011 I've always been told to remove the stem from the winding position. There is less chance of buggering the keyless works that way Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
what2 Posted July 25, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2011 maybe I should of set a poll? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woof* Posted July 25, 2011 Report Share Posted July 25, 2011 I saw that dial setup on eBay, isn't the dial 29mm? What case will you use? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted July 25, 2011 Report Share Posted July 25, 2011 I always remove the stem in the hand-setting position. Had a few buggered keyless, but that's the odd occasion rather than every time I've done it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
what2 Posted July 25, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2011 I have a couple of cases that I bought because they use a 29mm dial, not sure where I got them to be honest. I will let you know how it works. One case is a sub and the other is the no crown guards variety. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1680 Posted July 25, 2011 Report Share Posted July 25, 2011 I messed up my keyless when I removed the stem in the winding position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superlative Posted July 25, 2011 Report Share Posted July 25, 2011 Stem all out. If your watch hacks, all the better too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
automatico Posted July 25, 2011 Report Share Posted July 25, 2011 "Given my long history of screwing up keyless works by removing the stem in the wrong position - where should the crown be when I pull it out?" From my experience (and screw-ups): Seagull ST6 works best in setting position. When installing the stem it usually helps to push the detent button down a bit while inserting the stem. DG, CH etc '21' jewel movements work best in winding position. No need to push the detent button. Eta 2824/2836 etc seem to work better in setting position and it helps to push the detent button when inserting the stem. 1...Push the detent button. 2...Slowly turn the crown/stem while gently shoving the stem all the way into the movement. 3...Release the detent button and gently pull the stem out to setting position in order to align all the parts. Check to make sure winding, time, and date setting works Ok. Q...Why push the detent button on ST6 and Eta but not DG/CH when installing the stem? A...Because the slope on the Seagull and Eta stem collar is so short and steep that it sometimes pushes the detent/set lever out of place when inserting the stem. The DG/CH collar has a long, mild incline. Eta 2824/2836 etc notes: **Use a screwdriver to push the detent button because using a pointed tool can result in dislocating the set lever/set bridge alignment. If the stem pulls out when setting the watch...do not cram it back in because it will sometimes shove the set lever out of place. **If you do push the set lever etc out of place...push the detent button in and install the stem and push it all the way in, pull it out to settinig position and see if everything works. If it does, you lucked up. **If the set lever is shoved out of place...most of the time you can reset the set lever by removing the autowind assembly and mainspring bridge and moving the parts around with a screwdriver etc. If not you will have to remove the hands, dial, and calendar works as exolained below. **If the detent button is pushed in too far...the hands, dial, and calendar works will have to come off...then remove the set bridge, line everything up, put the MS bridge on, install the stem, and see if everything works. **After installing the calendar wheel...remove the hour wheel and turn the date flipper to where it rests just under the next tooth on the inside of the calendar wheel. This is so when the dial is installed, it will only take a few degrees of crown turning to flip the date so the hands can be installed at midnight. **On older 2824 etc watches...the stem hole in the mainplate will sometimes wear (especially if the stem is in a bind), and the stem will sometimes pull out when setting the watch. The cheap fix is to swap the detent out with a new or like new part. If this does not work, try a new stem because the collar on the stem may be worn down or damaged. Be careful when holding a stem in a pin vise because if the pin vise is tight and you spin the stem while tightening the crown...it can shave a little metal off the collar and allow the stem/crown to pull out of the watch. ***There used to be oversize stems for older manual wind watches but I have never seen one for Eta automatics. The best way to learn about the setting works is to buy an old Eta 2824/2836/46 etc, remove the balance and autowind assembly (they are just in the way), then take it apart and put it together about 25 times. After you master the setting works...move on to the train wheels...autowind assembly...and last, the balance/balance jewels etc. No kidding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redwatch Posted July 25, 2011 Report Share Posted July 25, 2011 I usually leave the watch in time setting position. Generally I just do it by feel. I can usually tell just by taking it nice and easy when I am removing the stem. In some cases (like with the 7750) I find it works better taking out the stem in the normal position, but it has differed each time as well. Again, for me it is just a "feel" thing. What ever option you choose, you shouldn't have to force it back in. It should go nice and easily so don't push on it too hard. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prdubis Posted July 25, 2011 Report Share Posted July 25, 2011 Same as other members, time setting position... And I usually set the hands to 0:00 before... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mastrmindalliance Posted July 25, 2011 Report Share Posted July 25, 2011 I dont have anything to add to what Automatico and Red said above. All good stuff My only advice, is NOT to twist the stem slightly (as advice is sometimes given) when reinstalling. Doing that is how i buggered up most of the Keylesses that i have. Use your screw driver on the detente ever so slightly, and gently, carefully and above all very straightly put it back. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
automatico Posted July 25, 2011 Report Share Posted July 25, 2011 "My only advice, is NOT to twist the stem slightly (as advice is sometimes given) when reinstalling." I turn the stem so the square on the stem will slip through square hole in the winding pinion and not unseat it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pr0digy30 Posted July 25, 2011 Report Share Posted July 25, 2011 For the ETAs... definitely stem in the last (time setting position)... caused myself much grief last week when I failed to pull it all the way out and had to go in pull everything apart to fix the keyless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woof* Posted July 26, 2011 Report Share Posted July 26, 2011 I wish there was some way for someone to make a macro video of this. Even studying pictures I don't understand how the keyless really works or how it's put together. Guess I'll just keep at it. After reading some of the posts a little of it makes sense..I've killed 3 eta's but have been successful with 21j movements. I'll keep practicing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
what2 Posted July 26, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 26, 2011 now that I think about it - I signed up for the timezone watch school and have the entire kit, never started the course, might be a good time to start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
txcollector Posted July 26, 2011 Report Share Posted July 26, 2011 it varies from movement to movement. For 7750 you have to do it with the stem in the winding position. For the 2824/2836 time set position For the 6497 winding position. It depends on the construction Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redwatch Posted July 26, 2011 Report Share Posted July 26, 2011 I wish there was some way for someone to make a macro video of this. Even studying pictures I don't understand how the keyless really works or how it's put together. Guess I'll just keep at it. After reading some of the posts a little of it makes sense..I've killed 3 eta's but have been successful with 21j movements. I'll keep practicing. There is a video and pics for the 7750 (which is somewhat similar in terms of how the keyless works). You can find it here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woof* Posted July 26, 2011 Report Share Posted July 26, 2011 Thanks Redwatch! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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