UK Riots

[sempire]

Yea, the uk really messed up with their immigration policy...

Maybe there will be a change..

[TeeJay]

Yea, the uk really messed up with their immigration policy...

Maybe there will be a change..

Absolutely, but I wouldn't be expecting a change any time soon, as the political elite have got things so twisted, that if anyone dares to criticize 'immigration', the knee-jerk slap down they get, is "You're being racist!!!" It's nothing to do with race whatsoever, simply one of not having the resources to look after our own needy, let alone do the same for every scrounger refugee who turns up from abroad looking for a handout claiming asylum, but yet still, they will not close the doors The government complain about the amount of UK citizens claiming benefits, yet they don't create the jobs for the people to go into, or support self-employed start ups, and instead allow migrant workers to take the lower paid jobs, using the excuse that "No Brit wants to work for such low wages..." Maybe if they were actually given the choice through the jobs being available in the first place, they might actually choose to do the work, rather than just cash a dole check every week I've nothing against people who want to emigrate/immigrate to improve their lifestyle through integration into their new society and through hard work, but all these phony asylum seekers really gets to me I'll get off my soapbox on this one, as it's an issue which strikes very close to home for me and really grinds my gears. Besides, it looks like the rioting has stopped :Jumpy: :victory:

[FxrAndy]

it proberbly stopped because it was hard work

If the riots were caused by some underlaying problem like civilrights or oppression the momentem would keep going but as it is just lazy scum who saw and excuse to take take take once it became like work they gave it up

[maxman]

London....you're Invited http://www.ebaumsworld.com/video/watch/81741275/

[TeeJay]

it proberbly stopped because it was hard work

If the riots were caused by some underlaying problem like civilrights or oppression the momentem would keep going but as it is just lazy scum who saw and excuse to take take take once it became like work they gave it up

I think you're quite right there...

London....you're Invited http://www.ebaumsworld.com/video/watch/81741275/

"Welcome to the jungle, we've got fun and games..."

[maxman]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_gQOfF0Ymo&feature=related

[plaifender]

How'd I miss this discussion!!

I'll probably be doing my thesis paper on immigration policy in the EU as the biggest challenge it faces in the 21st century.

Don't even know where to start. Everyone from Texas that has commented on this thread.. I can say I honestly do not agree with.

That is all for now...

[cornerstone]

I missed this too, did London lose an ice hockey game or something?

I reckon it's the EU & French influence. First they start selling croissants in Sainsburys, now burning cars in the streets, and before you know it you won't be able to get a decent British tikka masala or a balti for baguettes and croque monsieurs....before you know it heart disease rates will be falling and what then.

I'm an immigrant too, and I wish more of my fellow immigrants would follow the discipline of moving to another country. I strictly only loot on Tuesdays and Thursdays, car jack Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays, pillage on Saturdays, and indecent exposure is for Sunday best. Is that so hard?

[TeeJay]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_gQOfF0Ymo&feature=related

:thumbsupsmileyanim:

How'd I miss this discussion!!

I'll probably be doing my thesis paper on immigration policy in the EU as the biggest challenge it faces in the 21st century.

Don't even know where to start. Everyone from Texas that has commented on this thread.. I can say I honestly do not agree with.

That is all for now...

It kinda spun away from my original intention, but never mind... I think there's a huge distinction between legitimate emigration/immigration, and the kind of economic migration/bogus asylum seekers which currently plagues the UK, but sadly, the government just slaps anyone who dares question it at all with the Racism Card as a way of keeping the topic out of discussion As before though, I don't really blame the people themselves who come to the UK to sponge off the state, I blame the governments which have allowed that system to exist to be exploited, they're the ones who're really to blame, not that they'll ever be brought to account over it It just makes me laugh/weep how countries like Australia can have such vigorous immigration policies, yet the UK just seems to have an open-door policy On another note, I hope all's well with you, bro, I hope the Mercadona haven't run out of The Good Stuff yet

I missed this too, did London lose an ice hockey game or something?

I reckon it's the EU & French influence. First they start selling croissants in Sainsburys, now burning cars in the streets, and before you know it you won't be able to get a decent British tikka masala or a balti for baguettes and croque monsieurs....before you know it heart disease rates will be falling and what then.

I'm an immigrant too, and I wish more of my fellow immigrants would follow the discipline of moving to another country. I strictly only loot on Tuesdays and Thursdays, car jack Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays, pillage on Saturdays, and indecent exposure is for Sunday best. Is that so hard?

:thumbsupsmileyanim: Put me down for an iPadII next time you 'go shopping'

[subbiesrock]

It just makes me laugh/weep how countries like Australia can have such vigorous immigration policies, yet the UK just seems to have an open-door policy

The Aussie Govt has attracted a lot of flak for their policies regarding refugee/asylum seekers. I'm not sure what the external image is, but believe me, it's a hot topic internally. A day barely goes by without a story of boat people or an attack by the Left over the Government's policies.

The issue is a real land mine. Neither political party mentions it, knowing full well that the parties have been and continue to do back door deals with our neighboring countries to curb the flow of boatpeople. Putting it rather bluntly, they cost a lot of money and provide an ongoing financial burden for very little, if any gain to the Australian Public. Australia takes thousands of migrants yearly who either come on skilled work visas or have some demonstrated some aptitude and are willing to work. This is the same for current citizens who are expected to pull their own weight, so to speak. I know from first-hand experience that the biggest welfare cheats are 1st generation migrants who maintain their 'hearts' in the old country.

The issue of people of particular faiths not adapting to their new environments is an interesting one. This idea of instituting Sharia'a law by an Islamist minority in England, a predominantly Anglo - Christian country for over a Millenium is beyond flagrant arrogance. Not that Britain and America's (and by proxy - Australia's) interventionist policies in the Middle East help the situation, but the sense of entitlement from these people, and the refugees who expect a coutry to which they have no national, cultural or religious ties, to open up their arms and welcome them for free and to support them financially as if they have some obligation to do so, is ludicrous. Then, they demand to institute their Barbaric, Banal Bronze-Age Belief systems as a replacement for the Rule of Law?

It was proposed in Australia (and I suspect elsewhere in the West) that Sharia'a Courts are established to deal with 'Muslim' matters.

What a joke.

Lots to think about here. I suspect Europe (and Britain ) have a lot on their plates presently, and these issues need to be nipped in the bud before the minority become a ruling majority.

[KB]

Just further to what subbie just said about the boat people and illegal immigration.

It is a little know fact that the major political parties are both playing this card to their own benefit.

I believe facts show that over 90% of our illegal immigrants actually fly in.

Ken

[TeeJay]

The Aussie Govt has attracted a lot of flak for their policies regarding refugee/asylum seekers. I'm not sure what the external image is, but believe me, it's a hot topic internally. A day barely goes by without a story of boat people or an attack by the Left over the Government's policies.

The issue is a real land mine. Neither political party mentions it, knowing full well that the parties have been and continue to do back door deals with our neighboring countries to curb the flow of boatpeople. Putting it rather bluntly, they cost a lot of money and provide an ongoing financial burden for very little, if any gain to the Australian Public. Australia takes thousands of migrants yearly who either come on skilled work visas or have some demonstrated some aptitude and are willing to work. This is the same for current citizens who are expected to pull their own weight, so to speak. I know from first-hand experience that the biggest welfare cheats are 1st generation migrants who maintain their 'hearts' in the old country.

Absolutely so, this goes back to the issue of if someone is a legitimate migrant working on a visa, someone who is genuinely seeking asylum, and those who are just trying to make a quick buck and dodging the system. As before, govenments keep a pretty tight grip on these discussions, by branding anyone who dares to think otherwise 'racist', and effectively sidestepping the issue itself. Personally, I think that is a dangerous tactic, as all the time people cannot express their opinions, they just become more and more frustrated, and more likely to become 'radicalized' in some manner, and that is where the real danger lies

The issue of people of particular faiths not adapting to their new environments is an interesting one. This idea of instituting Sharia'a law by an Islamist minority in England, a predominantly Anglo - Christian country for over a Millenium is beyond flagrant arrogance. Not that Britain and America's (and by proxy - Australia's) interventionist policies in the Middle East help the situation, but the sense of entitlement from these people, and the refugees who expect a coutry to which they have no national, cultural or religious ties, to open up their arms and welcome them for free and to support them financially as if they have some obligation to do so, is ludicrous. Then, they demand to institute their Barbaric, Banal Bronze-Age Belief systems as a replacement for the Rule of Law?

It was proposed in Australia (and I suspect elsewhere in the West) that Sharia'a Courts are established to deal with 'Muslim' matters.

What a joke.

Lots to think about here. I suspect Europe (and Britain ) have a lot on their plates presently, and these issues need to be nipped in the bud before the minority become a ruling majority.

Absolutely, sure, by all means maintain cultural traditions as much as feasible when emigrating, but there must also be willing assimilation into the new culture. Sure, I don't expect Muslims in the US or UK to be force-fed pork, but neither would I (nor should they) expect a country to adopt an entirely different set of customs and procedings. Sure, it would be nice to see Sharia law enforced on looters, I bet they'd've thought twice if they knew they were going to lose a hand when caught stealing But equally, if I really wanted to live by that guideline, I would move to Saudi Arabia (good for road surfing ) Personally speaking, I think people should be flexible enough in their outlook to adapt where possible, without having to compromise their core values, and those who can't do that, well, there's nothing to stop them leaving the country voluntarily

Just further to what subbie just said about the boat people and illegal immigration.

It is a little know fact that the major political parties are both playing this card to their own benefit.

I believe facts show that over 90% of our illegal immigrants actually fly in.

Ken

Then get cavity searched, sent home, and shown on Border Patrol

[w0lf]

I've seen some shocking riot and looting videos before but this is completely out of control.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0cbVW_QS2eE&feature=player_embedded

[subbiesrock]

Some news:

There is a strong call for those looters arrested and living in public housing to have their rights to housing revoked.

Those responsible need to have the book thrown at them. After this, the clerics that wish to institute Islamic law in western democratic countries are next on the hitlist. There is no place for such lunacy in my opinion.

[maxman]

I've seen some shocking riot and looting videos before but this is completely out of control.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0cbVW_QS2eE&feature=player_embedded

OMG

[TeeJay]

Some news:

There is a strong call for those looters arrested and living in public housing to have their rights to housing revoked.

Those responsible need to have the book thrown at them.

Brilliant idea, they should definitely do that, but what the scum then bleat, is "If you cut my benefits, my child will starve..." so the pussy government lets them keep their benefits

After this, the clerics that wish to institute Islamic law in western democratic countries are next on the hitlist. There is no place for such lunacy in my opinion.

As above, if they don't want to live by the standards of the country which they are living in, they should be 'reminded' that they are always free to leave

[w0lf]

[TeeJay]

[plaifender]

The worst problem with discussions like these is the concrete LACK of economical data to back up arguments like

"immigrants are an economic strain on our society"

According to almost EVERY economic outlook, forecast and immigrant case study in the European union, the burden to the social welfare systems in spain, france, germany and italy is miniscule in comparison to the amount of economic growth that immigration in these countries has produced. Immigrants are on average significantly less likely to use social saftey nets like health care, and social security for fear and lack of knowledge about how these systems work. Yet, when these systems are in crises, immigrants are the first ones to get the blame. In the case of spain, italy, france and the UK, health care systems are under strain from over-extended government ependiture and payrolls. Massive unemployment in spain is causing the government to bleed from within, 21% of people unemployed means that the government is having to shell out unemployment checks (often covering up to 80% of your last job's salary). Immigrants (both legal and illegal combined) receive less than 1% of all ths money spent on healthcare and social security.

The other problem faced by this mentality is that it polarizes immigration into a political hot-topic when it has nothing to do with politics and everything to do with economics. Immigrants don't think about what political party is in power when they go to a developed country, nor whether or not they will be seen as a burden. Even when measuring and analyzing data of immigrants that leave their countries for political assylum, the underlying theme is economics, as the oppurtunities that they were afforded in their countries of origin diminished because of their political stance or the internal conflict within their countries of origin.

The immigration issue is an interesting sociological discussion when it's politicized but the numbers just aren't there to blame immigration on economic problems. All signs and indicators simply point the opposite way. But most people couldn't even say what the average immigrant earns, and what percentage of their earnings are responsible for economic growth. Working people 100% ALWAYS contribute to economic growth.. and if you look at employment numbers for immigrant workers you'd be astounded to find that in the E.U. immigrants are almost NEVER unemployed. The myth of immigrants "taking" jobs has no economic grounds either. Although it makes good politics. Jobs simply don't work that way.

The biggest and most challenging issue that europe will have to face in this century is the increasingly aging population and population decline. At current rates in europe, the population is going to shrink by about 40-50 million people in the next 25-40 years. At that point the problem will be equally as bad as now because we'll have TOO many jobs in europe and not enough people to fill them. Even with the extreme immigrant growth, there is a possibility that immigrant flows will not be enough to meet the demand of the jobs that will be need to be filled in the next few years.

Of course, the eu will have no other option that to welcome immigrants as they have in the past (when economies are booming).Europe has always been a place that has traditionally produced immigrants, but the true test of EU will be whether or not it can play the reverse role in accepting and incorporating immigrants into european society. Europe's immigrants never did a good job of adapting to other cultures.. as they tended to simply Kill the native population or breed them out. In less extreme cases their european identities became STRONGER once they arrived to their destination countries (mainly the americas). Imagine if that were to happen in Europe?

[TeeJay]

I think the issue is that there are so many facets to immigration, it is all to easy for them to become blurred in discussion. I agree, it is mainly a political issue for the parties to bat around, and I quite agree about immigrants not necessarily being a strain on communities. Here in the UK, there are many businesses owned by Indian and Pakistani families, and they are run with a work ethic which puts sections of British society to shame, namely, the benefit scroungers who not only don't work, but are outright unwilling to work. I think the problem there, is when there are families where several generations have not had to work but survived on handouts, there is no incentive for the younger generations [of that same family] to think differently about work, and that is very wrong. However, to say that there is no economic grounds to the claim that immigrants 'take jobs', you really ought to see the area I live in, bro... Plenty of Eastern Europeans working in the factories, produce gathering, bar work etc, all jobs which could be given to the above-mentioned unemployed. Personally, I would love to move to America. I nearly did eight years ago, but circumstances changed and plans fell through, but if the opportunity to move to America to tattoo ever came up where I could also bring my wife, I would jump at the chance I think the issue with the asylum seekers, is that the UK is not getting any from France, Holland, Iceland or Ireland, so all those coming from Arab nations and elsewhere, simply do not meet the criteria of 'asylum seekers', and having to keep them in the UK while their status is determined (Australia would just deport them) is a drain on resources. Overall, the UK is just a mess, and I just wish I was in the situation to be able to not live here anymore... I guess all I can do is keep networking, keep practicing, and make sure that tattooing becomes successful enough for me that I can make some much needed changes in my life

[sempire]

It's not about disallowing immigration, it's about getting the right immigrants and keeping your eye all of them for a period of time.

I remember reading that if you're allowed to immigrate to Australia and you're not high on the list of skilled immigrants that they want, they could tell you where you have to live, and for how long.

In Canada, everyone immigrates to Toronto and then they find it's very expensive and could be hard finding jobs. Meanwhile other places in Canada are dying for immigrates, are cheaper to live, and have jobs.

A lot of people are all about easy money and easy live, they want it the fast way.

When the older generation came try wanted to make something of themselves, the kids now want it all handed to them because they believe they deserve it.

[TeeJay]

It's not about disallowing immigration, it's about getting the right immigrants and keeping your eye all of them for a period of time.

I remember reading that if you're allowed to immigrate to Australia and you're not high on the list of skilled immigrants that they want, they could tell you where you have to live, and for how long.

In Canada, everyone immigrates to Toronto and then they find it's very expensive and could be hard finding jobs. Meanwhile other places in Canada are dying for immigrates, are cheaper to live, and have jobs.

A lot of people are all about easy money and easy live, they want it the fast way.

When the older generation came try wanted to make something of themselves, the kids now want it all handed to them because they believe they deserve it.

And that is precisely the issue we saw with the riots...

[freddy333]

The worst problem with discussions like these is the concrete LACK of economical data to back up arguments like

"immigrants are an economic strain on our society"

According to almost EVERY economic outlook, forecast and immigrant case study in the European union, the burden to the social welfare systems in spain, france, germany and italy is miniscule in comparison to the amount of economic growth that immigration in these countries has produced. Immigrants are on average significantly less likely to use social saftey nets like health care, and social security for fear and lack of knowledge about how these systems work. Yet, when these systems are in crises, immigrants are the first ones to get the blame. In the case of spain, italy, france and the UK, health care systems are under strain from over-extended government ependiture and payrolls. Massive unemployment in spain is causing the government to bleed from within, 21% of people unemployed means that the government is having to shell out unemployment checks (often covering up to 80% of your last job's salary). Immigrants (both legal and illegal combined) receive less than 1% of all ths money spent on healthcare and social security.

The other problem faced by this mentality is that it polarizes immigration into a political hot-topic when it has nothing to do with politics and everything to do with economics. Immigrants don't think about what political party is in power when they go to a developed country, nor whether or not they will be seen as a burden. Even when measuring and analyzing data of immigrants that leave their countries for political assylum, the underlying theme is economics, as the oppurtunities that they were afforded in their countries of origin diminished because of their political stance or the internal conflict within their countries of origin.

The immigration issue is an interesting sociological discussion when it's politicized but the numbers just aren't there to blame immigration on economic problems. All signs and indicators simply point the opposite way. But most people couldn't even say what the average immigrant earns, and what percentage of their earnings are responsible for economic growth. Working people 100% ALWAYS contribute to economic growth.. and if you look at employment numbers for immigrant workers you'd be astounded to find that in the E.U. immigrants are almost NEVER unemployed. The myth of immigrants "taking" jobs has no economic grounds either. Although it makes good politics. Jobs simply don't work that way.

Of course, the eu will have no other option that to welcome immigrants as they have in the past (when economies are booming).Europe has always been a place that has traditionally produced immigrants, but the true test of EU will be whether or not it can play the reverse role in accepting and incorporating immigrants into european society. Europe's immigrants never did a good job of adapting to other cultures.. as they tended to simply Kill the native population or breed them out. In less extreme cases their european identities became STRONGER once they arrived to their destination countries (mainly the americas). Imagine if that were to happen in Europe?

And you are basing your conclusions on what...........EU government sources perhaps?

Overall, the UK is just a mess, and I just wish I was in the situation to be able to not live here anymore... I guess all I can do is keep networking, keep practicing, and make sure that tattooing becomes successful enough for me that I can make some much needed changes in my life

In recent years, indigenous Londoners have been exiting the city in droves due to the decreasing quality of life that accompanied increasing numbers of asylum seekers & those habitually on the dole. The next step, the death knell for any city, is when sections of these takers begin to outnumber their well-intentioned (& willfully ignorant) givers & the takers begin to gain political control. Londoners need only look to Detroit to see what that leads to.

[plaifender]

And you are basing your conclusions on what...........EU government sources perhaps?

What exactly is so funny about my conclusions? Are they surprising to you? Actually, about 1 year of research on my part. Most data and economic outlooks are projected by independent sources such as universities. In my case specifically, the data that I base my conclusions on is gathered and collected by the Lawrence R. Klein Institute at the Universidad Autónoma de Madrid. Immigrant statistics are easily obtained through Eurostat and the Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD). Any information you'd like on the subject i'd be happy to share.

The only pertinent data that the general public usually has knowledge of is the size of immigrant populations and their rate of growth (at best). The most obvious way that people reach conclusions about immigrants is using the information they already know (immigrant population increases) and correlating that information to the current general economic trends. Thus when economies are good.. immigrants are BOOMING (3 to 5 times more immigrants flowing into destination countries) but no one talks about immigration since everyone is doing well. When economies are bad, generally speaking we see abrupt falloffs of immigrant populations even before countries even release quarterly reports on the slowing of economic growth etc. Thus.. immigrants generally realize there are no jobs before the government even knows it. Yet.. once the economy has slowed, heavy attention is placed on immigrant populations even though by the time this has happened, most immigrants waves have already slowed massively.

For example, here in spain, Immigration is a huge issue currently, even though, we're receiving 200% less immigrants per day than we were 7 years ago (when immigration wasn't an "issue" in the media and politics).

[seroberts]

You guys need some of these.