panerai153 Posted October 27, 2006 Report Share Posted October 27, 2006 In the past I have tried to be very civil and only posted about watches and my feelings about various Reps, etc. I have steered clear of any name calling, or accusing anyone of behavior that is not what we should tolerate. I have a problem however and it needs to be out in the open so all the forum members can decide if this is acceptable behavior or not. Part One: A little over a month back, I purchased a MBW White Letter Sub 1680 from a member of this forum. We made the deal, I sent him the money and the deal went through with just a couple of little glitches. The watch had a broken movement clamp which he had fixed. I will say in this person’s defense, he refunded the money into my paypal account when he discovered the watch was broken. We got that resolved and he sent me the watch. Before the watch arrived, he PM’ed me to tell me that he had received a brand new MBW Red Sub and would I be interested in trading back the White Sub as he liked the white sub better. This was on October 10th . I initially told him that I had not received the white Sub from him, but no I wanted to keep the White dial Sub. He emailed me with and offer of 100 USD plus the “Brand New MBW Red Sub. We had several PM’s back and forth about the watches. I finally PM’ed him back that If he wanted the White dial that bad, I would trade back. All of this was on October 12th . Part Two: He Paypal’ed the 100 dollars on October 13th. I sent the White sub back to him on October 14th USPS Priority Mail. Now bear in mind, he lives in Gainesville Fl, I live in Natchez, MS, so we aren’t sending watches around the world, just across 2 states. In his PM’s he told me that he would overnight the Red Sub to me. Having said that, you would assume that the watch would arrive in Natchez in a couple of days. Unfortunately, that was not the case. I waited and waited, checked with the Post office almost daily, no watch. Didn’t hear from him until October 18th despite several PM’s and Emails. Finally on October 18th he PM’ed me that he would send the watch overnight the next day and I would receive it on the 20th . Again that was not the case. I sent him several Emails and Pm’s, plus left a phone message for him to call me, no response. Part Three: The watch arrives. I got a notice from the Post office today October 26th that I had an overnight package. I picked it up with great expectations of seeing a nice new MBW Red Sub. Boy was I disappointed. First thing I noticed was the bezel insert, it was the old no pearl insert from the White letter Sub. Then I realized that even with handling and movement the watch was not running. I wound it manually, shook it, tapped it in the palm of my hand, nothing. This watch was DOA. Finally, I noticed some scratches around the lug holes. I got a loupe out and examined the case. The lugholes are horrible! It loks lie someone tried to drill out the lugholes and quit before they finished. The outside on some has no chamfer, one has too much and there are scratches and gouges around the holes where it looks like the bit skipped out of the hole. The problems can be repaired , but It will cost a fair amount of money to fix the movement and correct the lugholes. IN conclusion, I would like to add this. This individual is a student, and he is probably pretty busy ,But in my defense, I have a very busy Anesthesia practice, take call every third night and weekend and I’m almost 63 years old! I do a fair amount of watch trading as well as buying and selling a few things on Ebay. One thing that I have learned is that communication and promptness are the most important aspects of a good buyer –seller relationship. Keep the customer informed of what is happening, and If you promise to do something, you darn well better do it. I try to mail out packages on the day after funds receipt. I also email the buyer to let him know that I’m shipping and then after the package is shipped. I email them again to let them know the package is on the way. I would never, unless I was too ill to get out of bed, tell a customer that I was going to send his item overnight and then wait two weeks or more to send it. I really don’t think this is the way forum members should conduct their business. I have always felt that this community is built on trust and faith in other forum members. I feel that this trust has been violated in this instance. Here are some photos of the MBW Red Sub 1680 that I received today. Would you be disappointed if you found this watch in a package addressed to you? Thanks for reading Arthur Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devedander Posted October 27, 2006 Report Share Posted October 27, 2006 First picture was enough for me to say YES I WOULD BE DISSAPOINTED. This is of course assuming that I was expecting a new or very good condition watch. I am guessing he did not detail to you any problems with the watcy. The following pictures are just horrible... I don't know all the details but I think you got ripped off pretty bad unless your final out of pocket is very low... I don't know how this forum works but if it's propper to post reviews of other members with names I would not hesitate to do so for this transaction. Unless some big details were left out I would consider this a very bad transaction both in communication and final outcome and would appreciate knowing who does something like this so I can stay far away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alt.watch.obsessive Posted October 27, 2006 Report Share Posted October 27, 2006 Absolutely. I wish you the best of luck. Steve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
x86uops Posted October 27, 2006 Report Share Posted October 27, 2006 Bummer. Anyone would be very disappointed with this. I hope you get to resolve this with the seller in a timely manner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubiquitous Posted October 27, 2006 Report Share Posted October 27, 2006 Personally, I would find this unacceptable. If the watch was described as 'new' or even in 'like new' condition, I would expect nothing less. This is clearly the furthest thing from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
By-Tor Posted October 27, 2006 Report Share Posted October 27, 2006 You seem to be very, very unlucky with your MBW trades. The default MBW pearl is shite, so I wouldn't personally care about the missing pearl... I'd rather have no pearl at all than the default one... and I guess it's possible to sand and polish the lugholes into more reasonable condition. But sending a dead watch to someone is just unforgiveable. You got lied and ripped off. But then again it could be even worse: At least you received the watch. If this guy isn't replying the emails and PM's it's a sure sign of guilt... and pretty much proves he was aware of the movement problem in this watch. Name the guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panerai153 Posted October 27, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 27, 2006 I can assure you that I didn't leave out any significant facts. The seller told me on two different occasions in his PM's that he had a "Brand New" Red Sub that he wanted to trade for the white sub that he sold me originally. NOw how clear can that be. When someone tells me it's brand new, that's pretty simple. It's never been used, and certainly hasn't been tampered with . If he doesn't come forward to try to make this right, When I name him, I will post all the Pm messages in chronological order so everyone can see for themselves. As to the money out of pocket, it is a considerable amount.I paid 390.00 Dollars for the White Sub, So less the 100 dollars that he paid me as part of the trade, I'm still out 290.00 dollars as well as the shipping. The point is this is NOT the way to conduct business with anyone, much less fellow board members. We all came here to be protected from watch scammers. If people like this are allowed to operate with impunity, soon the replica forums will be just like the scam sites. You will be so afraid of getting scammed that you dare not buy anything. As to naming the fellow, I am going to give him a couple of days to rectify this situation, then I'll reveal who he is. I really can't understand the refusal to communicate. He was on line on this forum a couple of hours back.I PM'ed him while he was active and asked him to respond to my questions, Nothing at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
By-Tor Posted October 27, 2006 Report Share Posted October 27, 2006 I can assure you that I didn't leave out any significant facts. The seller told me on two different occasions in his PM's that he had a "Brand New" Red Sub that he wanted to trade for the white sub that he sold me originally. NOw how clear can that be. When someone tells me it's brand new, that's pretty simple. It's never been used, and certainly hasn't been tampered with . If he doesn't come forward to try to make this right, When I name him, I will post all the Pm messages in chronological order so everyone can see for themselves. As to the money out of pocket, it is a considerable amount.I paid 390.00 Dollars for the White Sub, So less the 100 dollars that he paid me as part of the trade, I'm still out 290.00 dollars as well as the shipping. The point is this is NOT the way to conduct business with anyone, much less fellow board members. We all came here to be protected from watch scammers. If people like this are allowed to operate with impunity, soon the replica forums will be just like the scam sites. You will be so afraid of getting scammed that you dare not buy anything. Agreed 100% I think you're being more than fair to STILL give the guy a chance to make it good. So let's hope he has enough balls and common sense to come forward now and solve this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panerai153 Posted October 27, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 27, 2006 You seem to be very, very unlucky with your MBW trades. The default MBW pearl is [censored], so I wouldn't personally care about the missing pearl... I'd rather have no pearl at all than the default one... and I guess it's possible to sand and polish the lugholes into more reasonable condition. But sending a dead watch to someone is just unforgiveable. You got lied and ripped off. But then again it could be even worse: At least you received the watch. If this guy isn't replying the emails and PM's it's a sure sign of guilt... and pretty much proves he was aware of the movement problem in this watch. Name the guy. By-Tor, You know who he is, the same guy we corresponded about yesterday. If he isn't forthcoming I will certainly name him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazz Posted October 27, 2006 Report Share Posted October 27, 2006 Thats just wrong..... sorry to hear about it, I hate seeing trades on the board go this way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
By-Tor Posted October 27, 2006 Report Share Posted October 27, 2006 By-Tor, You know who he is, the same guy we corresponded about yesterday. If he isn't forthcoming I will certainly name him. Yes I know who he is, but it's your call to make it public or not. Not mine. Giving it a second thought... I sincerely hope you don't have to do it... he has contributed some good stuff here. So let's hope he takes care of the situation now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotoman Posted October 27, 2006 Report Share Posted October 27, 2006 i'd be super [censored] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutchy Posted October 27, 2006 Report Share Posted October 27, 2006 I too know exactly who you are talking about after a little forum research. I hope it works out man. Floris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devedander Posted October 27, 2006 Report Share Posted October 27, 2006 I am super [censored] for you! This is a bell he can't unring (becuase the delay in shipping and contact was pretty bad already) but I hope you at least get your money back or proper value in watch... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMK000 Posted October 27, 2006 Report Share Posted October 27, 2006 @panerai153: Arthur , you are aboselutely correct to be upset. Give him some time (not much ....if he is a student he will have plenty of time ... believe me) ... and if he des not react ... name him. That situation also reminds me that we should apply the same rules of "buying from a dealer" to "buy or trade from and with a member". Dealers get reviews. Members too. Though we sometimes forget to pay attention to the trading / members review section. A member with a high "post number" not necesarrily is a good and trustfull member. I am not saying that this guy belongs to this category (... not yet any way) but we had various cases likes this in the old RWG. Any way ... good luck Arthur. Hope it resolves well for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikellem Posted October 27, 2006 Report Share Posted October 27, 2006 I am sorry! There is absolutely no excuse for this. I do know whom your talking about and it's not hard to figure out... He has had problems before and if you would have asked me...I would have never had any transactions with this person. Anyway, I feel that this is fraud in my eyes! I am sorry you had to go thru with this. I hope the board will do something about this person's trading on here in the future. Hope you can straighten this out! I am truly sorry! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikellem Posted October 27, 2006 Report Share Posted October 27, 2006 You seem to be very, very unlucky with your MBW trades. The default MBW pearl is [censored], so I wouldn't personally care about the missing pearl... I'd rather have no pearl at all than the default one... and I guess it's possible to sand and polish the lugholes into more reasonable condition. But sending a dead watch to someone is just unforgiveable. You got lied and ripped off. But then again it could be even worse: At least you received the watch. If this guy isn't replying the emails and PM's it's a sure sign of guilt... and pretty much proves he was aware of the movement problem in this watch. Name the guy. BT. The seller knows exactly what he is doing! Trust me. There were no mistakes sent. This is honestly unforgiveable! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwoTone Posted October 27, 2006 Report Share Posted October 27, 2006 PM has been sent to the seller requesting a reply to this thread... The Admin Team is watching this topic... TT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KB Posted October 27, 2006 Report Share Posted October 27, 2006 It doesn't take much research to know who we are talking about here, so it will be in his best interest to come forward soon because Arthur doesn't need to tell us. You do seem to be having a very bad run of luck Arthur, so I do hope this can be rectified to your satisfaction. Ken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbj69 Posted October 27, 2006 Report Share Posted October 27, 2006 i only find it hard that he said brand new knowing that it looked like that, r u sure he said brand new? especially if it is who i think it is but at any rate i will say it sucks for u if that is the case at least u emailed him and got his attention here so he has to comment or run joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
True-Stu Posted October 27, 2006 Report Share Posted October 27, 2006 Yep, we all know who it is. It's the guy you posted about a few days ago that you couldn't reach with pm's or email. A young man who apparently lacks maturity and integrity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OiRogers Posted October 27, 2006 Report Share Posted October 27, 2006 Either way this one goes... wow... just wow. The stones on that fellow to ship that destroyed hunk of crap as "New"... wow. And one more name added to the Official OiRogers Brand Fecal Roster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swemoose Posted October 27, 2006 Report Share Posted October 27, 2006 I know I don't contribute that much to this forum; I am mostly a "fly on the wall". These threads are becoming more and more frequent, which is sad to see because I have dealt with some of the members here and I have nothing but good things to say and I hope that they feel the same way when they have dealt with me. But I have become more and more cautious when dealing with members. Is there any way of blocking the scammers? If I received a watch looking like that and I had dished out almost $300 I would be infuriated. I think it's time to start coming down harder on the people that take advantage of these forums. I don't think there should be a second chance for these scammers they should be outed and banished. Just my $0.02 Moose Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody Posted October 27, 2006 Report Share Posted October 27, 2006 Arthur, I am very sorry that this is happening to you. It is a simple matter of having some courtesy. Based on the reply that I have seen with all these members, I have seen that 2 of those members I have done recent trades with. Sure, we are dealing with technically "illegal" goods, but I still think that promises/honors should be exchanged between the members. When I sold my watches, I always try to do my best, because I really do expect the same in return, just courtesy. And this is truly unfortunate. You have a lot of patience than I ever would. If I received the red 1680 after what I was told, I would be furious, and not even going to sound macho, but 2 states is not far away, and I would pay a visit with the member just to get things off my chest. Yes, it is no secret who it is, but I am shocked about all that has happened, and it was right there in front of us, when this member I think, had even said that he was so much looking forward to get another MBW. I am sick of this attitude, it is literally throwing salt on the wound........I am very, very sorry to hear about trades gone bad, but to gone this bad, it is inexcusable. I guess we will have to wait for some explanations again aren't we? this I got to hear, and can't wait, from this student of ours with the Gator logo in his sig........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OiRogers Posted October 27, 2006 Report Share Posted October 27, 2006 Shhhh Woody... that was sooooo very close to putting a flashing neon sign around the neck of the young scammer.... And I totally agree with Woody... this whole system of Forums and Inter/intra-member trading is based in its entirety off trust that buyers and sellers have... A board member doing this to another board member erodes the base of trust that our entire forum is built off of. I've dealt with Woody recently and I must say that I wouldn't hesitate to deal with him again. I've also dealt with other members on this and other forums that have also proven to be stand up individuals... The watch that was shipped as "new" is totally unexcusable and the behaviour surrounding this transaction are beyond my comprehension. I have no idea how you haven't posted directly the young students name and address and such already... either way we pretty much know who it is... and I, for one, will never have dealing with that individual. I'm certain I'm not the only one who feels that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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