robertk Posted August 16, 2012 Report Share Posted August 16, 2012 The legitimacy of this 'crisis' is the whole point. People have been told that there are delays due to raids, and that would be totally acceptable and understandable. However. For the most part, people are not experiencing any delays at all, from a variety of dealers, so the real issue here is if these raids are truly having an impact, or if this is again, just another 'little white lie'. And yes, I totally agree, for the most part, Andrew and Josh do deliver, I would never deny that, but they have also been proven to lie on various matters on numerous occasions, and that is the crux of this matter. I'm not trying to be confrontational, but consider just how truly accountable to the forum admin and mods are these guys? What can the mods actually do, should they not come through with the goods? Sure, they would lose reputation, but other than that, no real sanctions or enforceable refunds. The site I mentioned, uses an inhouse escrow system and very strict feedback system, which is more stringent than used by eBay. If sellers there don't live up to expectation, they face real sanctions, which even one of our own trusted dealers fell foul of through no fault of their own TJ, I appreciate your comments. Your thoughts are based on "what if's". "Is this really happening or is it BS?". Do we know? NO. I'm for being a bit more tolerant. As for not being able to provide sanctions for bad dealings, we'll, that's another "what if". the fact is, if there were numerous violations or rip offs, this forum and the others would make it known and scare off a lot of customers. If you remember the whole episode about 4-5 years ago about the Cartel artificially increasing prices the forum members got to make their own decisions about whether to buy from them. Fact is, They've been very good. I don't have a "dog in this hunt", other than as I look back, these sellers have been overall excellent over the last 6-7 years. I actually was buying from them well before that, as have many others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted August 16, 2012 Report Share Posted August 16, 2012 TJ, I appreciate your comments. Your thoughts are based on "what if's". "Is this really happening or is it BS?". Do we know? NO. I'm for being a bit more tolerant. As for not being able to provide sanctions for bad dealings, we'll, that's another "what if". the fact is, if there were numerous violations or rip offs, this forum and the others would make it known and scare off a lot of customers. If you remember the whole episode about 4-5 years ago about the Cartel artificially increasing prices the forum members got to make their own decisions about whether to buy from them. Fact is, They've been very good. I don't have a "dog in this hunt", other than as I look back, these sellers have been overall excellent over the last 6-7 years. I actually was buying from them well before that, as have many others. This is very true, without a 'man on the ground', we don't know what is happen in GZ, but, the truth is, these raids do not seem to be impacting on people receiving their stuff (Rolexman seems to be experiencing more 'admin issues' than short supply issues) It's not a "what if" on sanctions though... As mentioned, on CQout, three negative feedbacks for any reason, and a dealer is toast. I've experienced it during a transaction, when someone else put a negative feedback, the seller got booted, and my money was automatically returned to my account. To me, that's belt and braces protection for a buyer, not simply relying on someone's reputation to deliver on goods ordered. As before, I don't dispute Andrew and Josh's ability to deliver, and as I said to Rolexman a page or so back, Josh is widely acknowledged as the best when it comes to resolving aftersales issues. I have no beef with that reputation, but what I don't lke, is when people are seeminly lied to for no reason, and inconsistent stories are coming out, where it should truly be a uniform "No issue whatsoever," or "Yeah, no stuff for a while..." (and then nothing getting through to anyone) I am balancing their past solid results, with the same history of little white lies, so truly waiting to see what else transpires in this situation... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmeister Posted August 16, 2012 Report Share Posted August 16, 2012 This thread has been entertaining and tells me three things: 1.) There has been or continues to be some form of crackdown (we can read that in the Newspaper) 2.) Our dealers will continue to do the best they can to source what their clientelle wants; however we as consumers need to be more careful as to who actually has what to sell. Their clearly have been and may continue to see service disruptions. Our dealers have historically done an excellent job providing the majority of the membership with their "illegal" needs. That is their business. 3.) Those who have been dissatisfied with the dealers continue to be, albeit they form a small "vocal" minority Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archierocks Posted August 16, 2012 Report Share Posted August 16, 2012 josh has never let me down until now i i get the crack downs the fact sales are more important than repairs blah blah blah its just the 3 straight forward lies that [censored] me off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted August 16, 2012 Report Share Posted August 16, 2012 This thread has been entertaining and tells me three things: 1.) There has been or continues to be some form of crackdown (we can read that in the Newspaper) 2.) Our dealers will continue to do the best they can to source what their clientelle wants; however we as consumers need to be more careful as to who actually has what to sell. Their clearly have been and may continue to see service disruptions. Our dealers have historically done an excellent job providing the majority of the membership with their "illegal" needs. That is their business. 3.) Those who have been dissatisfied with the dealers continue to be, albeit they form a small "vocal" minority 1) If this is so, why have there been so few delays in people receiving goods? I'm not denying raids, but I don't think they can be as problematic as portrayed, or none of us would be getting anything. If a guy on CQout can deliver goods within 8 days, things cannot be as severe as they are being made out to be, as he has nowhere near the kind of factory connections as the Cartel, or even WatchEden, yet still came through... It simply does not add up 100% 2) I agree 100% 3) The amount of people inconvenienced isn't the issue, it's a case of ascertaining just how severely these raids are and will impact on our hobby (at the moment, seemingly not much, despite dealers claiming to have issues) in an honest manner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logan Posted August 17, 2012 Report Share Posted August 17, 2012 I have a feeling we're going to discover how over used the name Noob has been.. I'm sure everyone has noticed that every second watch was suddenly from the noob factory.. I suspect the raids were on 'a' noob factory.. not 'the' noob factory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
By-Tor Posted August 17, 2012 Report Share Posted August 17, 2012 Hahaa cheers on the Olympics part. Anyway, Andrew just told me the factory has just reopened and the raids have stopped! Now awaiting qc pics. Hope everything goes smoothly These sound like really effective "raids". Authorities come and "raid" the factory that is producing illegal, counterfeit items. In China that means that they'll be up and running again in 2 weeks like nothing happened. I guess this kind of "shortcuts" have allowed them to be an economic superpower in the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogerthat Posted August 17, 2012 Report Share Posted August 17, 2012 (edited) Dealers are choosing sides with factories or factories are choosing dealers there is no denying that Check out angus's August email blast sent this past week Every watch on the email a "noob" factory watch Compare that to josh's email blast for August also sent this week Every watch on the email a "h-factory" watch Moral of the situation is you can no longer choose your dealer and be loyal to them You must decide if the watch you want is a noob factory, h factory or other and then choose the best dealer for they factory to buy your watch from Edited August 17, 2012 by rogerthat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archierocks Posted August 17, 2012 Report Share Posted August 17, 2012 it would be good if the rwg could make direct contact with the factories buy direct and cut out the middle man i be surprised if no one has ever tried it nd if so why it didnt work Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rek001 Posted August 17, 2012 Report Share Posted August 17, 2012 Are you serious? Why would the RWG admin want to get involved with answering hundreds of sale question e-mails daily not to mention having to get involved with repairs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archierocks Posted August 17, 2012 Report Share Posted August 17, 2012 i would be more than happy to be involved in it coming from a watch sales background the repairs are not difficult say there was a team of 5 members who dealt with he orders etc im pretty sure we all have or know a decent watchmaker or have the skills to repair any problems a movement swap would prob be cheaper than most repairs look at tc and bk they by direct from the factories and add there mods before passing them on i just don't see how if we could get factory contacts we could set up our own private buyers club just think out of every sale a % could be used to develop new products like new dwo or bracelets with the factories Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxman Posted August 17, 2012 Report Share Posted August 17, 2012 Ha Ha...It's no secret that TeaJay has no love for the cartel. Tell us how you really feel T. I do respect how TeaJay feels about the TD. There are some here who just dont have much faith In the cartel. But I can only go by my own personal experence. I dont feel I have ever been ripped off. Paid a bit more that I should have? prehaps and most likely....at times. But I have always checked my watches and they were what they were advertised as... Swiss eta and saphire crystal for example. I also dont have a problem wearing a cheeper rep. I have a quartz Hublot and a 23j UN that I love to wear. No one has ever suggested that were not the real thing. But I also try to avoid situations where such conversations might take place. A jewlery store or watch shop for example. But there's times when I want to wear something more substantial. I just purchased the new Seawolf from Josh. I didn't like paying $378.00 for a rep.. but sometimes there's no other choice If you want the good stuff. Swiss eta 2836....6mm thick saphire crystal....double sided AR....c1 Super lume. If these things are Important to you....then you have to pay for the privilege unfortunately. Again...I dont like paying such prices...but I dont know anyway around it. So far so good on my side. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jkay Posted August 17, 2012 Report Share Posted August 17, 2012 it would be good if the rwg could make direct contact with the factories buy direct and cut out the middle man i be surprised if no one has ever tried it nd if so why it didnt work RWG would become a direct target of law enforcement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted August 17, 2012 Report Share Posted August 17, 2012 Ha Ha...It's no secret that TeaJay has no love for the cartel. Tell us how you really feel T. I do respect how TeaJay feels about the TD. There are some here who just dont have much faith In the cartel. But I can only go by my own personal experence. I dont feel I have ever been ripped off. Paid a bit more that I should have? prehaps and most likely....at times. But I have always checked my watches and they were what they were advertised as... Swiss eta and saphire crystal for example. I also dont have a problem wearing a cheeper rep. I have a quartz Hublot and a 23j UN that I love to wear. No one has ever suggested that were not the real thing. But I also try to avoid situations where such conversations might take place. A jewlery store or watch shop for example. But there's times when I want to wear something more substantial. I just purchased the new Seawolf from Josh. I didn't like paying $378.00 for a rep.. but sometimes there's no other choice If you want the good stuff. Swiss eta 2836....6mm thick saphire crystal....double sided AR....c1 Super lume. If these things are Important to you....then you have to pay for the privilege unfortunately. Again...I dont like paying such prices...but I dont know anyway around it. So far so good on my side. Mike For me, it's not so much a case of feeling ripped off by the prices (which are a very reasonable alternative to the gens ) and I know Andrew and Josh come up with the goods with very few issues, I just don't want to do business with them for other reasons It's like I'm sure everyone knows of someone, who all their friends like, yet for some reason, cannot stand them themselves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxman Posted August 17, 2012 Report Share Posted August 17, 2012 For me, it's not so much a case of feeling ripped off by the prices (which are a very reasonable alternative to the gens ) and I know Andrew and Josh come up with the goods with very few issues, I just don't want to do business with them for other reasons It's like I'm sure everyone knows of someone, who all their friends like, yet for some reason, cannot stand them themselves Indeed T. We all have are reasons...be It personal or otherwise....for feeling the way we do. Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cuong Posted August 17, 2012 Report Share Posted August 17, 2012 I tried to order from Puretime and this document showed up when I clicked Add to Cart :snorkel: . Does anyone have the same problem? http://servingnotice.com/fh/41%20-%20FDJ%20&%20PI.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest zeleni kukuruz Posted August 17, 2012 Report Share Posted August 17, 2012 eight pages about dealers? OMG, isent it up to each of his own whom to buy from??? C'mon guys, they all ripp us off, ALL of them, they make a [censored] load of money from us. And on every watch the sell to us the make at least 35%, this is biz and they are here to make money it's simple! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jkay Posted August 17, 2012 Report Share Posted August 17, 2012 And on every watch the sell to us the make at least 35% cough 100% cough From time to time a newer dealer will accidentally charge fair prices and it becomes obvious how much we're paying to the established dealers. Does no one remember the two years TimesShop sold Noobfactory watches for half the Cartel prices. Noob Sub for $40, anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archierocks Posted August 17, 2012 Report Share Posted August 17, 2012 so could some of the watches on cq etc actually be the same or just as good as the watches dealers would sell how would admin mods and the rest of you guys think about me trying to set up as some sort of fair trade dealer only selling tot he site would put no extra risk to the forum im pretty sure if i put my hand to it i can get rep factory details in a few weeks or months Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted August 17, 2012 Report Share Posted August 17, 2012 Indeed T. We all have are reasons...be It personal or otherwise....for feeling the way we do. Cheers. Absolutely so Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted August 17, 2012 Report Share Posted August 17, 2012 so could some of the watches on cq etc actually be the same or just as good as the watches dealers would sell how would admin mods and the rest of you guys think about me trying to set up as some sort of fair trade dealer only selling tot he site would put no extra risk to the forum im pretty sure if i put my hand to it i can get rep factory details in a few weeks or months Possibly, but also a case of 'yes and no', and very much a matter of case by case basis, rather than an overall level, from what I can tell. The 16610 and GMTII I have recently received, have no serial numbers or case etchings. The 5513 and 5517 I got a few years back do. I really wouldn't like to say for sure... For me, the thing which appeals about the site is the 100% buyer protection, which is bulletproof Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legend Posted August 27, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 27, 2012 It looks like the "raids" are still ongoing.. Toro is one of the dealers who keeps stock for AP ROO sec@12. I have no luck trying to get the Noob stuff from my regular TD King. This tells me that the problem is at dealer level. Switching dealers for a while to see what happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeSentier Posted August 27, 2012 Report Share Posted August 27, 2012 also ordered a noob 243 from Toro, and received QC pics two days ago Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markiemark Posted August 27, 2012 Report Share Posted August 27, 2012 Any news/updates about the raids? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mariano86 Posted August 28, 2012 Report Share Posted August 28, 2012 Anyone have any new info Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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