Obama Reelected

[txcollector]

IMHO it is not about one person or party being wrong or right but as much about breaking the gridlock between the two parties.

This. But unfortunately these clowns are already posturing for the mid term elections in 2 yrs. It's hopeless.

[txcollector]

Bush actually won that election entirely on the 5 to 4 vote of the right leaning Supreme Court.

Although I disagree with the role the SCOTUS in that fiasco (which was really caused by voter irregularity, suppression and other issues while Bush's brother was running that state) at the end Gore would have lost anyway. As it was reported after the fact the recount continued as Gore requested the result would be the same (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florida_election_recount). Who knows what a full recount would have done but that's just speculation.

[icoopernicus]

Neither a spelling bee nor a piece of paper gives any man the right to suppose his poltical view is superior. I voted for neither FYI, and will leave the discourse with this pearl of wisedom.

"The moment a person forms a theory, his imagination sees in every object only the traits which favor that theory."

Thomas Jefferson

This is known as Confirmation Bias, it is very natural to fall into this trap and even the most well educated indeed do. If you are aware of this pitfall, it can be avoided and this is a n excellent lesson for anyone who would like to hone their critical thinking skills.

[KB]

Fact of the matter in a 2 party system like we have Romney was actually right. He said it wrong, and added some unfavorable commentary, but he was right. On both sides, roughly 90% of the people are going to vote for one party or the other NO MATTER WHO IS RUNNING. The candidates can say whatever they want and be whomever they want to be, and those 90% of the people are going to vote for them. They would vote for a trained monkey as long as it was teh Party's representative.

This is basically what I hate about elections, not just America but all over the world.

A very large section of the demographic will form the same political affiliation that their parents had and simply vote for the same party for the rest of their lives, very much the same mentality as 'Rah Team'

Sorry but popular vote means nothing in elections the only defining figure is seats won and that shows Obama won by well over 100 seats more than Romney, even to say they lost the house is misleading because the repub's only held out there due to their gerrymandering redivision of electoral boundaries.

Ken

[Mike on a bike]

kbh just had to come back for this one "I'm not making this up guys. Sorry if it offends a few people. Just google "education by state ranking". There are plenty more sources to choose from."

You are confusing a liberal arts degree from MY Daddy Paid & I Got Drunk College with intelligence, forget critical thinking we try to weed that out in the early years of public education. Be nice little drones for your goverment now they will provide all.

[kbh]

kbh just had to come back for this one "I'm not making this up guys. Sorry if it offends a few people. Just google "education by state ranking". There are plenty more sources to choose from."

You are confusing a liberal arts degree from MY Daddy Paid & I Got Drunk College with intelligence, forget critical thinking we try to weed that out in the early years of public education. Be nice little drones for your goverment now they will provide all.

Hmmm. I guess you and I just look at education from two different perspectives. It sounds like you believe in one's life experiences as being the one and only measure of intelligence and not the amount of formal education that a person receives. You do seem to have a disdain for both public education and for higher education.

And how "the little drones for your govement(sic) now they will provide all" fits in to the discussion is beyond me.

I thought we were discussing the difference in education in the Red States vs. Blue States. You don't believe in statistics either, I guess, since that's all my post was referring to.

Hey that's fine. You believe what you want. I realize I'm not going to change any minds and particularly not yours. Let's move on.

[Noel Fleischer]

This whole idea that Obama is a Socialist and wants to take over everything from Medicine & business is a bit ridiculous IMO.

Notice how fast Chris Christie was praising Obama when NJ got wrecked by Sandy. He ditched Romney like a hot potato, when it came time for disaster $$.

He knows that individuals AND states can only do so much.

We do need a strong Central Government sometimes

[vafarmer70]

This whole idea that Obama is a Socialist and wants to take over everything from Medicine & business is a bit ridiculous IMO.

What part of "I am a fan of re-distribution" leans non socialist?

[Mike on a bike]

kbh red vs blue OK.

Remember in my prior post I said don't call the troops, you like stats well here is one. Looks like the blue states are not well represented among America's bravest, maybe busy at the frat house party. They pay for there political rights with blood, service and sacrifice you propose education as the metric for an informed electorate. Your so called educated blues rights and freedoms are being guarded by the very people you degrade, all the more does it show their strength of character. I prefer my metric, you can have the college boys I'll take the vets, there invested in the country not themselves.

The red states keep this nation safe. “New Jersey comes in 50th of the 50 states; just 1 percent of current residents have served in the military since Vietnam.”

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/12/14/AR2008121401815.html

In 1969, the 10 states with the highest percentage of veterans were, in order: Wyoming, Pennsylvania, West Virginia, California, Oregon, New Jersey, Massachusetts, Ohio, Connecticut and Illinois.

In 2007, the 10 states with the highest percentage of post-Vietnam-era veterans were, in order: Alaska, Virginia, Hawaii, Washington, Wyoming, Maine, South Carolina, Montana, Maryland and Georgia.

Over the past four decades, which states have disappeared from the top 10? California, New Jersey, Massachusetts and Illinois, all big blue states that have voted Democratic in the past five presidential elections. These states and another blue state, New York, which ranked 12th in 1969, are among the 10 states with the lowest number of post-Vietnam vets per capita. New Jersey comes in 50th of the 50 states; just 1 percent of current residents have served in the military since Vietnam.

This is not simply an issue of people retiring to warm states such as Florida, Georgia and Texas. A 2005 Heritage Foundation analysis of Defense Department and census data on enlistments found that Montana, Alaska, Florida, Wyoming, Maine and Texas send the most young people per capita to the military. The states with the lowest contribution rates? Rhode Island, Massachusetts, Connecticut, New Jersey and New York.

[KB]

It seems to me that this is getting personal, yes there are stats for both sides that wont look great in the cold light of the day.

However the only salient point about this whole thread is that a election was held in what only one of 2 parties could win...and one did.

It's not the end of the world people talking about leaving the country or signing petitions to secede must be looked upon with a certain amount of derision.

Ken

[By-Tor]

I've been on the Internet since 1992... from the old Usenet newsgroup days.

And I've never seen a politics/religion thread that didn't "get personal".

Actually it's against our forum rules to have this kind of threads because the outcome is always the same: Friends turn to enemies.

I thought about closing it when I saw it. But then again it was such a big issue for the Americans and I thought it'd remain civil (for once). But it never happens. Never ever.

[KB]

yes as BT says if it strays it will get locked down.

Ken

[Mike on a bike]

KB not personal just a good lively debate. We obviously have two diametrically opposed view points on the quality and composition of the present electorate. Just serve and foley so to speak, I have debated good friends vehemently and then gone out for a beer. I hold no ill will just like the challenge. You know like building a franken rather than buying gen it's all in the doing. Maybe best I go on to another build I am knee deep on another forum in debate. In fairness it is about such topics so I will leave it be here fair enough.

[By-Tor]

I have nothing against heated debates. But it's always disappointing to see a lot of good members turning against eachother. Because of politics. That's why we originally forced this rule. Guns is another topic that's a no-no.

PS: Our posts were not directed at you Mike. Not at all. Just a general observation about these threads... at some point... at page 3 or 4 they always get this same "turn". It's amazing how that always happens, regardless of the forum.

PS: Did anyone check that Farage vid I posted in the previous page? It's hilarious. You guys are lucky that you can actually vote for the prez. We don't have that luxury in the European Union. We have to accept an unelected talking head like Van Rompuy... or whatever the deeply corrupted EU bureucrats, Rotschilds, Goldman & Sachs bankers and the Euro Parlament choose to decide.

This is not a controversial statement because nobody really gives a shit about this guy. But he's actually the "prez" of 500 million people. I bet you haven't even heard of him.

[Mike on a bike]

By-tor you should see the exchanges on places where this is the topic, we are civil and genteel in comparison. That being said best we stick to our bread and butter, watches.

[vafarmer70]

By-tor you should see the exchanges on places where this is the topic, we are civil and genteel in comparison. That being said best we stick to our bread and butter, watches.

Speaking of bread and butter, this sourdough right out of the oven is quite good

[Mike on a bike]

shark yum sounds good! Lots of butter to h*ll with cholesterol.

[vafarmer70]

I am a pretty fit guy, work out a lot, 6'4 205 lbs, I figure a piece of bread here and there won't kill me

[kbh]

On the other RWG, Luthier and I used to go at it like cats and dogs about politics and immigration. But we still had civil conversations about the things that really mattered like watches, guitars and women and I always looked at him as a friend and would love to go out for a beer with him if I was ever in Los Angeles. I hope and think that he feels the same.

I think this election has made us all a little crazy.

[freddy333]

You guys are lucky that you can actually vote for the prez. We have to accept an unelected talking head like Van Rompuy... or whatever the deeply corrupted EU bureucrats, Rotschilds, Goldman & Sachs bankers and the Euro Parlament choose to decide.

The only difference between the way leaders are chosen in the US & EU is that, in the US, this happens behind the scenes, in the EU, it is out in the open.

[By-Tor]

Yes indeed Freddy. EU or the US... doesn't make any difference. It's mostly just theatrics. Dirty bankers have taken the powers and there's little we can do. But this EU/US debt problem have to be solved somehow. Now they're just printing more money and push the problems forward. It's kinda funny that our problems were caused by greedy capitalists... and now that their system has failed they're trying to save it with communism and make the taxpayers pay. This current EU bailout politics is crazy... it hasn't solved any problems, just made them worse.

Marc Faber puts it nicely.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vr3oO9oUDkY

About heated debates... when I was 20, I had really, really hot conversations about politics with my dad. It usually ended up in a verbal fight. Now 20 years later we still disagree about everything and sometimes those discussions still get heated... but in the end we just smile and forget about it. It's nothing personal.

[txcollector]

He has some valid points but I'm sorry but this Marc Faber is speaking non sense when he says you can use Dollars in Latin America. That just doesn't happen.

The minute you remove the common currency you end up with exchange rates, currency fluctuation that changes the flow of goods across borders.

He's right politicians and even some companies have a tendency to mask reality with financial games.

[By-Tor]

I was mainly referring his comments about the Eurozone. Countries like Greece and Spain are trapped in an economical prison. If they exit and devaluate their own currency, they'll probably have a chance to recover in 30-40 years.

This bailout/austerity crap will only take them back to the stoneage. And Germany, Finland, Netherlands and other northern countries don't feel like paying even 10% higher total tax rate... and on top of that becoming their ATM for the next 40 years.

But our problem is that the Eurozone is a political union... common sense has little to do with it... the bureucrats are only afraid of their own salaries and benefits. EU has made a lot of them millionaires.

[txcollector]

agree, the Eurozone was a good idea on paper but the execution fell short.

The burden on the weaker countries will just drag everyone else down. It should be time for a restructuring. However the Eurozone bureaucrats are not elected directly so it will take some drastic measures in countries like Germany to change the status quo. Very complicated situation.

[freddy333]

Dirty bankers have taken the powers and there's little we can do. But this EU/US debt problem have to be solved somehow. Now they're just printing more money and push the problems forward.

I have not heard much about this from most economists, but I believe the real problem is going to occur (next year) when interest rates begin inching back up towards their natural/default levels (4-5%). Then, every government economy that is heavily leveraged will be in the same position as many US home owners were in '08 when they overbought homes with (artificially) low interest rate loans that began to reset. And it does not take a Ph.D in economics to figure out what happens then.