imajedi Posted November 7, 2012 Report Share Posted November 7, 2012 It's sad that people can't talk politics without getting upset. When talking about politics you are really discussing social and economic policies, among other things, which are some of the most interesting in the world. Neither side can prove with uncertainty that their theory is correct which makes the debate so interesting, yet many people can't discuss it rationally. Can I prove that unregulated capitalism would have prevented the housing bubble? Nope, but I can suggest that without [censored] Mae and Freddy Mac buying up all those loans the banks would have been forced to keep those loans on their balance sheets and they never would of made a single crappy loan in the first place. However it's just a talking point not an absolute. At the end of the day, America will go on and Obama will do a fine job. Say what you want about him, he's an incredibly intelligent man and many of the decisions he makes in foreign affairs and social issues I will likely agree with. I happen not to believe in his economic policies. I think those policies are what has made this country so great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbutlerman Posted November 7, 2012 Report Share Posted November 7, 2012 Not arguing his intelligence. His economic policies (and social policies - because of the monetary cost to society) will put a huge halt to economic growth. When you limit the motivation of hard working (read high income) individuals (Yes, that is what taxing high income earners will do), the economy will slow. That is what is being reflected in the stock market drop today... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted November 7, 2012 Report Share Posted November 7, 2012 Different country than I grew up in. Regardless of your political persuasion, sadly, that is what happens when you leave your back door open (either to gain votes or to get cheap labor) & rely on the government to guard the doorway. I believe it was this understanding that the government is not a reliable protector of life or liberty that led the authors of the US Constitution to incorporate the citizens' right to keep & bear arms. I also believe, with this election, that the proverbial horse has now left the barn as far as the country goes. If everyone read - with an open mind - Barack Hussein Obama's 2 books, I think many opinions about our president would change. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxman Posted November 7, 2012 Report Share Posted November 7, 2012 I'm actually one of those silly Independents that care more about the man or women who represents the party than the party Itself. I voted for Obamma In 08 and I have not been Impreseed to say the least. But I won't blame him for the eight years of the Bush administration. I don't usally like to engage In these types of threads. People are going to disagree and things can and do get quite nasty. Michelle Obamma In 08 said that "This was the first time In her adult life that she has been proud of America". I guess those 200 plus years that came before can't compare to the election of your husband. It was one of the most disgusting things I have ever heard. But are first lady wasn't done with her anti American [censored] talking. There was this Veterans ceremony where the vets were folding a flag over a caset In honor of the many Americans who faught and died to keep this country free. There were bagpipes playing In the background. It was trully a beautiful occasion for Americans to take pride In their country and those who gave so much to keep her free. This video has been examined by some of the best lip readers and forensic speech pathologist In the world. As far as I know all these people agreed with the vile garbage that came out of her mouth. Now thats one classy first lady. She said..:all this for a dam flag" while her husband the president smiled In agreement. Watch the video and draw your own conclusions. These are the people that Americans have chosen to run the country. Sounds good to me. I don't think Michille understands that if not for these brave people there might not be a United States Of America. Or she dosen't give a [censored]. You can clearly see the hate and disgust on her face It was either Obamma or Romney. This was the very best this country had to offer It's people. We are trully [censored] as a nation. Have fun. Mike 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBOGH Posted November 7, 2012 Report Share Posted November 7, 2012 Michael Obamma Who's that? . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miagi Posted November 7, 2012 Report Share Posted November 7, 2012 well i won't venture deep into this discussion, but from an economic point of view theres an old saying "Everyone knows what needs to be done, but no one knows how to get re-elected once we do it". Obama doesnt have to take that into consideration anymore:P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panerai153 Posted November 7, 2012 Report Share Posted November 7, 2012 I believe that we are in for a really rough. next few years. If we cannot reach some consensus in Congress, and address the debt problem, I'm afraid the USA will be in the same shape that Greece is in, and there will not be a EU to bail us out.No matter what each side claims, many of the problems we face today can be laid directly on the back of the "do nothing" Congress that has wasted time and space in Washington for the past few years. The president, whomever he might be cannot be held totally responsible in the face of our lawmakers inability to get anything done to move the USA forward. Obviously the financial markets were not happy with the election results. Look at the DOW this morning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HauteHippie Posted November 7, 2012 Report Share Posted November 7, 2012 Had Gingrich been elected president, the Dow would have skyrocketed the next day & the economy would have followed suit. By the way, I am a life-long (JFK) democrat. Possibly over time. I have no doubt Gingrich would have started to pursue fiscal and monetary responsibility which, over time, would bear fruit. However everything that Bush and Obama have done over the last 8-10 years couldn't be undone so rapidly under any new president. The next crash is coming soon, and in fact is necessary at this point. The new president can only control, to a certain degree, what we do next... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobra Posted November 7, 2012 Report Share Posted November 7, 2012 (edited) I sincerely hope your doom and gloom scenario is just a personal frustration. I'm not sure where do you see the signs for such pessimistic outlook. Perhaps by not having his head in the sand and actually LOOKING at reality through educated eyes. The US is so screwed it's not even funny. Edited November 7, 2012 by Cobra Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxman Posted November 7, 2012 Report Share Posted November 7, 2012 Who's that? . Yo Bamma Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tabularasa415 Posted November 7, 2012 Report Share Posted November 7, 2012 Had Gingrich been elected president, the Dow would have skyrocketed the next day & the economy would have followed suit. By the way, I am a life-long (JFK) democrat. My family's from Boston, and I'm a life-long TED democrat. Had Gingrich been elected president, the Dow would have skyrocketed the next day & the economy would have followed suit. By the way, I am a life-long (JFK) democrat. My family's from Boston, and I'm a life-long TED democrat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanuq Posted November 7, 2012 Report Share Posted November 7, 2012 I received this many years ago from a fine gentleman here. It's worth watching. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CpT_8dDu4Hg&feature=share&list=UUAAAZLOT6zRB9WEo_LEp1aA 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbh Posted November 7, 2012 Report Share Posted November 7, 2012 As a student of the stock market and a very long time investor, I can say unequivocally that the election had little or nothing to do with the drop this morning. I happened to be following the market last night, AFTER the election had been called for Obama and the Dow futures were up over 100 points. The drop came instantaneously early this morning, when Mario Draghi, the head of the ECB, was speaking about the slow down in Europe being worse than expected, particularly in Germany (The only country holding things together at the moment). So, you Republicans can blame Obama if it makes you feel good about your loss, but it wont make it true. By the way, life will pretty much go on as it has for the past 200 years. The end of civilization isn't coming in the next 4 years. In case you haven't heard the BLS has already stated that the economy will add 12 million new jobs regardless of who won the election. Mr. Romney has promised to create 12 million jobs over the next four years if he is elected president. That is actually about as many jobs as the economy is already expected to create, according to some economic forecasters. [The New York Times, 10/16/12] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted November 7, 2012 Report Share Posted November 7, 2012 Clever video, but human nature has not changed in thousands of years. No matter how much legislation is passed, you CANNOT change human nature; you can only deal with it. That is the REAL truth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted November 7, 2012 Report Share Posted November 7, 2012 I happened to be following the market last night, AFTER the election had been called for Obama and the Dow futures were up over 100 points. Odd. Minutes before Obama took the stage last night, the Dow futures were down 30 points & dropping. The EU news only exasperated an already forgone conclusion. In fact, the goings on in Greece may themselves have been fueled, in part, by the election results last night. But keep a happy thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbh Posted November 7, 2012 Report Share Posted November 7, 2012 (edited) You are correct. They were down slightly before the election was called. The market hates uncertainty. That's why I specified AFTER the election in bold. They swung around a bit during the night but the point is still strong that the election was not the cause of the huge drop, At best it was a very small mitigating factor, although it didn't appear to me that there was any correlation. Keeping the happy thoughts although it's been a rather painful day. Edited November 7, 2012 by kbh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxman Posted November 7, 2012 Report Share Posted November 7, 2012 I received this many years ago from a fine gentleman here. It's worth watching. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CpT_8dDu4Hg&feature=share&list=UUAAAZLOT6zRB9WEo_LEp1aA Very nice Nanuq....here's another one worth watching. The speech Is by Charlie Chaplin from 1940 . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronin Posted November 9, 2012 Report Share Posted November 9, 2012 Had Gingrich been elected president, the Dow would have skyrocketed the next day & the economy would have followed suit. By the way, I am a life-long (JFK) democrat. ... and we would have Moon Colonies! (Which honestly would be kick ass, sign me up) The space race of the 60's was perhaps this countries greatest acheivement. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePcJhoF4ATM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbh Posted November 9, 2012 Report Share Posted November 9, 2012 With the field of Republicans chosen for the primaries it's no wonder they lost convincingly. They were so busy kowtowing to the far right that they all were committing political suicide. It was like a circular firing squad. The only "reasonable man" that they fielded was Jon Huntsman and he was immediately dismissed as too moderate. Jeb Bush could have easily won this election as could Chris Christie. Gingrich.....Not a chance. He's got more baggage than Greyhound bus. Cut back on health care and education for moon colonies? Definitely not part of the Republican small government mantra. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronin Posted November 9, 2012 Report Share Posted November 9, 2012 2016 will be another Clinton -vs- Bush contest. Hillary -vs- Jeb. I am not a fan of Political Royal Families. At this rate we could have Hillary 2016, Jeb 2020, Chelsea Clinton 2024. I am sure there are some more Bush's out there too. Decades of the same people going all the way back to 1980 Regan/"Bush". At least Obama is not part of that lineage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave123 Posted November 9, 2012 Report Share Posted November 9, 2012 All i know is its another great year to be a Canadian. 50 grand on the wrist,160 at the pedal and im off for a month long cruise again,next month. Let you guys discuss the doom and gloom of yankee life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave123 Posted November 9, 2012 Report Share Posted November 9, 2012 By the way, Donald Trump mentioned there is no better time to buy an american home than now. Before i hop on a plane,i might toss one on a credit card. Maybe two,paid in full for the same as a deposit on a home here. Good advice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxman Posted November 9, 2012 Report Share Posted November 9, 2012 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted November 9, 2012 Report Share Posted November 9, 2012 ... and we would have Moon Colonies! (Which honestly would be kick ass, sign me up) The space race of the 60's was perhaps this countries greatest acheivement. Yes, I saw all the debates, but watch this with an open mind & think again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmeister Posted November 9, 2012 Report Share Posted November 9, 2012 You guys are all pessimists. Not a fan of Obama but IMHO he couldn't kill the economy if he wanted to. Take five minutes. Study the Great Depression, how bad it got, actions taken, amount of time to really recover and timing and you are looking at a mini-version here. Of course it doesn't feel like it to all those who are suffering but I truly don't believe you could kill the economy, irrespective of who is President. With a split house and no supermajority in the Senate no one is getting anything done other than emergency type measures and that is IMHO all it takes. Not looking for a debate. Simply my 2 cents. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion but I am happy to wager a reasonable amount with folks that we are in better shape economically four years from now then today - no thanks to Obama (or Romney if he had won). And one last note, if the Republican party doesn't start ignoring the far right I don't think you will see a Republican President for decades. Both sides are idiots but the idiot portion of the Democrats is growing far faster than that portion with the Republicans. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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