By-Tor Posted November 14, 2012 Report Share Posted November 14, 2012 I have not heard much about this from most economists, but I believe the real problem is going to occur (next year) when interest rates begin inching back up towards their natural/default levels (4-5%). Then, every government economy that is heavily leveraged will be in the same position as many US home owners were in '08 when they overbought homes with (artificially) low interest rate loans that began to reset. And it does not take a Ph.D in economics to figure out what happens then. Yes. This will happen. The low interest rate has caused this debt problem in the Eurozone. Even the wealthy northern countries are in deep shit if the interest rates skyrocket. And that's a high possibility if the money printing gets out of hand. Germany is an exception... they don't have a housing bubble. If printing would solve any long-term financial problems, Zimbabwe would be one of the richest countries in the world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted November 14, 2012 Report Share Posted November 14, 2012 Even the wealthy northern countries are in deep shit if the interest rates skyrocket. Interest rates do not need to skyrocket to create havoc for economies that are over-leveraged. If the rates inch up from 0% to 2% or from 1.5% to 3%, I think we have serious problems. And that's a high possibility if the money printing gets out of hand. Germany is an exception... they don't have a housing bubble. Over the next several months, I think you will begin to see Germany's economy sag as well. If printing would solve any long-term financial problems, Zimbabwe would be one of the richest countries in the world. Exactly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KB Posted November 14, 2012 Report Share Posted November 14, 2012 Um....just before we go any further...sorry guys Australia's all full up Ken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noel Fleischer Posted November 15, 2012 Report Share Posted November 15, 2012 What part of "I am a fan of re-distribution" leans non socialist? Touche, then maybe I'm one also. The Military-Industrial Complex has been 're-destributing' wealth upwards for a long time. Time to even up for the 'working people'. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
txcollector Posted November 15, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 15, 2012 I find it funny when people bring re-distribution like it's a real thing happening in this country. I wonder what kind of evidence they think exists other than gut feeling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vafarmer70 Posted November 15, 2012 Report Share Posted November 15, 2012 (edited) Wow, just wow. Were you one of those people "occupying" ? That was directed at the posting above you P. Edited November 15, 2012 by unixshrk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike on a bike Posted November 15, 2012 Report Share Posted November 15, 2012 Military industrial complex, re-distribution or lack there of, two sides of the same coin my friends. Our government has become a self perpetuating machine unto itself bought by different interest groups each with their own agenda. We are cannon fodder as we are pitted against each other. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noel Fleischer Posted November 15, 2012 Report Share Posted November 15, 2012 There's no question re-distribution is going on. Look at wages for the working people over past 3 decades (flat or lower) vs. income of the top 1% (tremendous increase) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akira Posted November 16, 2012 Report Share Posted November 16, 2012 I'm not getting sucked into this debate, since I made my experiences with discussing US politics before. It's never civil and never ends in a good way It's caused by the different education and upbringing in those various countries. However, I want to make a quick statement to those following posts. agree, the Eurozone was a good idea on paper but the execution fell short. The burden on the weaker countries will just drag everyone else down. It should be time for a restructuring. However the Eurozone bureaucrats are not elected directly so it will take some drastic measures in countries like Germany to change the status quo. Very complicated situation. The EU zone succeeded in many ways and should not be reduced to the recent financial crisis, when a main aspect was the US housing market and financial crisis. Anyways, if you know a bit about the reasons why Greece, Spain and Italy are in the situation they are in now, you'll see, it has little to do with the EU. It has lots to do with the 2nd WW and 40 years of local politics before joining the EU. Joining the EU didn't make those countries poor. I'm sure you didn't mean to say that, however declaring the EU to have failed because of it might be a bit to early. Over the next several months, I think you will begin to see Germany's economy sag as well. You're thinking wrong my friend. Germany's economical growth will be around 1.6% in 2013 according to the DIW and a few other economic research institutes. The GDP in the second quarter grew by 0.5% and 0.3% in the third this year. It's a question of how many more depth Germany is willing to on to stabilize the EU zone. Btw: The current leading parties in Germany are planning to have a balanced national budget without any new debt by 2014. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxman Posted November 16, 2012 Report Share Posted November 16, 2012 Nice to see that they have put there differences behind them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KB Posted November 17, 2012 Report Share Posted November 17, 2012 see what did I tell you, Obama has his eyes closed, he's putting his heart into it. Ken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxman Posted November 17, 2012 Report Share Posted November 17, 2012 It's so nice to see someome paying attention....props to you Ken. I just don't like seeeing Romney sneeking that tongue In.. Not fair during a political debate.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KB Posted November 17, 2012 Report Share Posted November 17, 2012 well you know politicians just can't keep their tongues to themselves.... Ken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redwatch Posted November 17, 2012 Report Share Posted November 17, 2012 This is my favorite quote from the outcome of the election: "Someone asked me, Why did Mitt Romney lose? And I said because he got less votes than Barack Obama, that's why." New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie ® 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmeister Posted November 17, 2012 Report Share Posted November 17, 2012 This is my favorite quote from the outcome of the election: "Someone asked me, Why did Mitt Romney lose? And I said because he got less votes than Barack Obama, that's why." New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie ® True this time. But not always. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vafarmer70 Posted November 17, 2012 Report Share Posted November 17, 2012 True this time. But not always. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxman Posted November 17, 2012 Report Share Posted November 17, 2012 well you know politicians just can't keep their tongues to themselves.... Ken A little tongue and cheek humor Ken? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hambone Posted November 17, 2012 Report Share Posted November 17, 2012 One thing I never realized, is the in the USA, the Federal Reserve Bank is a private institution, set up in the early 20th century by the Mellon's, Carnegie's Rockefeller's, JP Morgan, and Guggenheim's. It is this cabal of unknown corporate robbers and banks that control out money, not the government. The largest American banks are driving the money flow, and you cannot find out the names of the Men who hold our nations purse strings. It is no wonder we are all being given the high hard one in the bottom! Google Federal Reserve Bank ownership and see what I mean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KB Posted November 17, 2012 Report Share Posted November 17, 2012 This is diametrically opposed to the Australian system where the reserve bank is in fact owned and controlled by the government......our 4 big banks just choose to ignore the interest rates set by the reserve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raywj Posted November 17, 2012 Report Share Posted November 17, 2012 One thing I never realized, is the in the USA, the Federal Reserve Bank is a private institution, set up in the early 20th century by the Mellon's, Carnegie's Rockefeller's, JP Morgan, and Guggenheim's. It is this cabal of unknown corporate robbers and banks that control out money, not the government. The largest American banks are driving the money flow, and you cannot find out the names of the Men who hold our nations purse strings. It is no wonder we are all being given the high hard one in the bottom! Google Federal Reserve Bank ownership and see what I mean. "Let me issue and control a nation's money and I care not who writes the laws" - Amshall Rothschild Sent from outside your window......Hi! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmeister Posted November 18, 2012 Report Share Posted November 18, 2012 Oh how quickly people forgot. In the Great Depression JP Morgan bailed out the U.S. and not vice versa. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raywj Posted November 18, 2012 Report Share Posted November 18, 2012 (edited) Oh how quickly people forgot. In the Great Depression JP Morgan bailed out the U.S. and not vice versa. That's a fairly general statement. They helped out in 1907 when Roosevelt threatened to take over all trusts unless they got there act together after they backed some goof ball trying to corner the cooper market. They also threw their fellow brethren a life line a few times in the late 1800's. Perhaps you could give some facts about the JP Morgan bail out during the Great Depression. This may help compare to the bail out the banks received in 2008. Sent from outside your window......Hi! Edited November 18, 2012 by raywj Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmeister Posted November 18, 2012 Report Share Posted November 18, 2012 That's a fairly general statement. They helped out in 1907 when Roosevelt threatened to take over all trusts unless they got there act together after they backed some goof ball trying to corner the cooper market. They also threw their fellow brethren a life line a few times in the late 1800's. Perhaps you could give some facts about the JP Morgan bail out during the Great Depression. This may help compare to the bail out the banks received in 2008. Sent from outside your window......Hi! I wasn't trying to compare one bail out to the other. In the Great Depression (or really the predecessor Panic) there was no other effective predecessor organization so Morgan had to step up....simply because there was no one else. The government had no organization, capability or even the credibility to deal with a crisis. This bailout was the opposite. The government had the capability and folks can debate until the cows come home whether the right measures were (or are still being) taken. What I do find laughable are the conspiracy theories about the Fed and it's being run by the banks. The bank conspiracy story emanates from that period. Today it is about as independent an organization as is possible. And although you can disagree with a Fed Chief's philosophies or methods I still feel strongly that its being a reasonably autonomous organization (and not at the whim of politicians whose only concern is re-election) has been of paramount importance to the U.S. and global economy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike on a bike Posted November 18, 2012 Report Share Posted November 18, 2012 WM "And although you can disagree with a Fed Chief's philosophies or methods I still feel strongly that its being a reasonably autonomous organization (and not at the whim of politicians whose only concern is re-election) has been of paramount importance to the U.S. and global economy." I agree for the most part , but would have liked it if Ron Paul's audit in depth had happened. And this is key (and not at the whim of politicians whose only concern is re-election), those guys are a bunch of *&*&*&, for sure. (insert derogatory adjective of choice) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmeister Posted November 18, 2012 Report Share Posted November 18, 2012 WM "And although you can disagree with a Fed Chief's philosophies or methods I still feel strongly that its being a reasonably autonomous organization (and not at the whim of politicians whose only concern is re-election) has been of paramount importance to the U.S. and global economy." I agree for the most part , but would have liked it if Ron Paul's audit in depth had happened. And this is key (and not at the whim of politicians whose only concern is re-election), those guys are a bunch of *&*&*&, for sure. (insert derogatory adjective of choice) I am not familiar with the audit issue but if it is designed to have congress mucking around with the Fed system I am not in favor of it. It is going through a interesting transition at the moment. Until Bernanke took it over it was a completely secret process run by folks like Burns, Greenspan, Volcker, etc. IMHO it is a better version of the Supreme Court. People have finite but longer terms and as a result it is never purely liberal or conservative. IMHO, no one deserves a tenured life long position dictating serious policy - whether legal or economic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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