Most expensive sub I could find

[busetinha]

My goal today was to find the most expensive two-tone submariner replica that I could find and buy it. This is what I have decided on:

http://www.ttw8488.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=10456

Before I pull the trigger I just wanted to get some last minute feedback from a few members and see what you guys had to say about this particular sub, or possibly point me towards an even better quality two-tone that I failed to find. Thoughts?

[Legend]

Interesting. Do you want the best or just simply the most expensive? If its the latter, there are several non-TD sites you could buy from.. it would be the same watch as above but definitely going to be more expensive. Is this what you really want? 

[508-Fanatic]

^ chortle

[busetinha]

Interesting. Do you want the best or just simply the most expensive? If its the latter, there are several non-TD sites you could buy from.. it would be the same watch as above but definitely going to be more expensive. Is this what you really want? 

Well the price has to justify the specs - I'm not paying $500 for a 2813 that's for sure. The watch I posted seems to have a very good spec sheet, I just wanted to see if anyone had input on the "little details" and perhaps recommend a watch that is closer to genuine in terms of these "little details" while maintaining the strengths of the watch that was listed. Do you know of one Pulverizer?

 

Also, I only buy from TD"s if that helps answer your question

Edited September 7, 2015 by busetinha

[swdivad]

I wonder what what or if the difference in color is between 14k (as this is wrapped) and 18k (as per gen) gold is

I thought I read some time ago that a gold color DLC is available, I would think that would be a much better and more wear resistant finish coating for gold parts.

[panerai153]

I believe that the one you are looking at is pretty nice. However I doubt seriously the movement is a gen SWISS ETA, and if it is, it will be and old movement that has not been serviced and may have a bunch if Chinese clone parts.

If it were me and I wanted to get the best, I would try to find this watch with the cheapest movement possible, then send it to one of our good modders and have them replace the movement with a serviced yuki 3135, a gen date wheel and hands and a gen Crystal if possible. If you wanted to mod it further, a gen dial.now you have one that is about as good as it gets.

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[busetinha]

I believe that the one you are looking at is pretty nice. However I doubt seriously the movement is a gen SWISS ETA, and if it is, it will be and old movement that has not been serviced and may have a bunch if Chinese clone parts.

If it were me and I wanted to get the best, I would try to find this watch with the cheapest movement possible, then send it to one of our good modders and have them replace the movement with a serviced yuki 3135, a gen date wheel and hands and a gen Crystal if possible. If you wanted to mod it further, a gen dial.now you have one that is about as good as it gets.

 

 

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hmm..interesting - do you recommend any modder in particular that can do these things you mention? Also, how can a TD advertise gen Swiss ETA and have it not really be that? Isn't their honesty and transparency what makes them a TD in the first place?

I wonder what what or if the difference in color is between 14k (as this is wrapped) and 18k (as per gen) gold is

I thought I read some time ago that a gold color DLC is available, I would think that would be a much better and more wear resistant finish coating for gold parts.

I had actually started a thread on 14k wrapped vs 18k - I didn't get much response on it lol...but I think there is a slight color difference if I'm not mistaken - probably not one that most people would notice. My knowledge of wrapped vs plated is that wrapped is supposed to be much thicker, which theoretically should make the weight closer to gen.

Edited September 7, 2015 by busetinha

[swdivad]

I had actually started a thread on 14k wrapped vs 18k - I didn't get much response on it lol...but I think there is a slight color difference if I'm not mistaken - probably not one that most people would notice. My knowledge of wrapped vs plated is that wrapped is supposed to be much thicker, which theoretically should make the weight closer to gen.

Too bad, this is useful information for sure...

wrapped vs. plated will not add any discernible weight whatsoever, both are a plating processes... wrapped 'may' be thicker, but the difference in thickness will be in micrometers.

[busetinha]

Too bad, this is useful information for sure...

wrapped vs. plated will not add any discernible weight whatsoever, both are a plating processes... wrapped 'may' be thicker, but the difference in thickness will be in micrometers.

ahh good to know! I wasn't sure how  much thicker it was, just that it was thicker. Do you happen to know how many microns the wrapped gold is on average? I've notice that most TD's advertise the gold plating at 5mils

[Nanuq]

There will be a visible difference between 14k and 18k gold when it's the real stuff. I was a gold miner and my wedding band is 24k purely because of that color. You can't mimic the buttery luster of 24k and to a lesser extent, 18k. 14k looks cheap in comparison.

[swdivad]

ahh good to know! I wasn't sure how  much thicker it was, just that it was thicker. Do you happen to know how many microns the wrapped gold is on average? I've notice that most TD's advertise the gold plating at 5mils

'Average' is a big word... How long is a piece of string, or how big was that fish I caught last summer?

Sorry I can't be of more help, but I really don't know for sure and I'd be really hesitant to take any manufacturer's word for it in this industry from the guys who want to profit from illegal manufacturing of counterfeit items.

I think any numbers would be exaggerated if they suspect the information would be difficult to verify.

In the end, you would probably be able to measure the thickness with a destructive method and using a microscope... it may have even done here before on one of the rep fora.

[Mike on a bike]

Just to chime in regardless of microns of thickness:  wrapped - sides of links also gold, plated - sides not gold stainless. < big tell. There was a big to do over this year or so ago as I remember: guy sold as wrapped but it was was plated sides of links dead give away.  I really always wanted one of these have seen gens like them but I have not, why: well in reps we can do stainless pretty well and a TC w/ a few gen parts is pretty damn close, in gold ain't cutting it we do not do that good enough yet.

[swdivad]

Just to chime in regardless of microns of thickness:  wrapped - sides of links also gold, plated - sides not gold stainless. < big tell.

Huge tell sure! Almost not even worth buying if the sides are masked during the process and bare stainless!

Here's some more info about gold plating thicknesses:

http://artisanplating.com/measuring-layer-thickness-on-gold-plated-surfaces/

[HaydenM]

Don't buy Swiss ETA from a TD. Not worth the worry and given how supply of ETA movements is currently if you were to get one it would be old stock and you'd get the problems that can come along with that. If you really want a Swiss ETA then buy A2836-2 with the watch and then source an ETA 2836-2 and get a watchsmith to do the (simple) swap.

[busetinha]

Just to chime in regardless of microns of thickness:  wrapped - sides of links also gold, plated - sides not gold stainless. < big tell. There was a big to do over this year or so ago as I remember: guy sold as wrapped but it was was plated sides of links dead give away.  I really always wanted one of these have seen gens like them but I have not, why: well in reps we can do stainless pretty well and a TC w/ a few gen parts is pretty damn close, in gold ain't cutting it we do not do that good enough yet.

I'll definitely be checking for that. Thanks.

[Mike on a bike]

Don't buy Swiss ETA from a TD. Not worth the worry and given how supply of ETA movements is currently if you were to get one it would be old stock and you'd get the problems that can come along with that. If you really want a Swiss ETA then buy A2836-2 with the watch and then source an ETA 2836-2 and get a watchsmith to do the (simple) swap.

This also.

[Guest REPPIN]

Thats not the most expensive two tone I could find...this is: 

 

http://www.torobravo2015.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=39_115&product_id=1660

[508-Fanatic]

Don't buy Swiss ETA from a TD. Not worth the worry and given how supply of ETA movements is currently if you were to get one it would be old stock and you'd get the problems that can come along with that. If you really want a Swiss ETA then buy A2836-2 with the watch and then source an ETA 2836-2 and get a watchsmith to do the (simple) swap.

 

+1   buy a Tissot watch with the Powermatic 80 movement. It's COSC and in league with the Rolex 3135. It's close enough to piss off Rolex owners who paid $10k for a watch that keeps similar time and reliability as a $1000 watch...well the 11 people that didn't buy it for the name or bling. Should be able to swap the movements.

Edited September 10, 2015 by 508-Fanatic

[HaydenM]

 

+1   buy a Tissot watch with the Powermatic 80 movement. It's COSC and in league with the Rolex 3135. It's close enough to [censored] off Rolex owners who paid $10k for a watch that keeps similar time and reliability as a $1000 watch...well the 11 people that didn't buy it for the name or bling. Should be able to swap the movements.

Great movement from what I've read. Even just swapping to an ETA 2824-2 or 2836-2 is not a difficult job with a rudimentary knowledge of watches (just don't go asking the first movement I tried working on, can't make a omelette without breaking some eggs I guess  ). If you buy with an A28xx-2 movement then the hands, date wheel, dial etc will all fit with relative ease.  

[tomhorn]

Never buy anything just because it's the most expensive. Price rarely indicates quality.

More directly, do not buy this particular watch, as it's well known that the modified to look like a 3135 version of the 2836 is a problem movement.

If you truly want the best, then try to find one of the old WM9's in a M2M sale, or start with a TC 16610 and buy the necessary parts (gen or rep, it's up to you) to convert it over to a 16613.

[panerai153]

There are tons of great genuine 16610 -16613 parts available, however since the 116610 is a lot newer, I would expect that gen parts are a lot scarcer and a lot more expensive. Mymanmatt can build a fantastic 16613 using a lot of gen parts, don't know if he can find gen parts to build a 116613.

AFA the movements, the Powermatic 80 is a slow beat movement. The gen 3135 is not. If it were me, I would use the yuki 3135, get it serviced and use it. It will also accept a gen DW and hands.

Here is my 16613 that Matt built for me. Gen dial, Crystal, crown insert and an 18k aftermarket bezel. Mine has an ETA movement. You may also notice in the reflection, the sides of the center links are gold, not the tell tale stainless.

.

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[508-Fanatic]

 

 

There are tons of great genuine 16610 -16613 parts available, however since the 116610 is a lot newer, I would expect that gen parts are a lot scarcer and a lot more expensive. Mymanmatt can build a fantastic 16613 using a lot of gen parts, don't know if he can find gen parts to build a 116613.

AFA the movements, the Powermatic 80 is a slow beat movement. The gen 3135 is not. If it were me, I would use the yuki 3135, get it serviced and use it. It will also accept a gen DW and hands.

Here is my 16613 that Matt built for me. Gen dial, Crystal, crown insert and an 18k aftermarket bezel. Mine has an ETA movement. You may also notice in the reflection, the sides of the center links are gold, not the tell tale stainless.

 

 

.

 

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Tom that's probably one of the easiest "tells" thanks for pointing that out - what a beauty!! Expect nothing less from Matt.

[ghost]

As 153 said. Might as well buy a franken if you're looking at splashing the big money out

[porschespeedster]

I would advise the OP to follow the crowd and source a modder.

one can also buy full gold or 18K/ss aftermarket bracelets instead of getting what may be dodgy quality from the dealers.

then install a Rollie clasp on the bracelet, at least then you know you have real 18K on your wrist.

Aftermarket or Gen full 18K + gen dial = cant get much better than that

Edited September 15, 2015 by porschespeedster

[fiveostang]

I would advise the OP to follow the crowd and source a modder.

one can also buy full gold or 18K/ss aftermarket bracelets instead of getting what may be dodgy quality from the dealers.

then install a Rollie clasp on the bracelet, at least then you know you have real 18K on your wrist.

Aftermarket or Gen full 18K + gen dial = cant get much better than that

This is the bet advice given so far. WSO bracelet (solid gold midlinks), WM9 clasp, WSO solid gold bezel, gen crown, and gen dial. This is the formula for the ultimate TT submariner.