pubus Posted January 25, 2007 Report Share Posted January 25, 2007 just my two words.. ive read all the pges, but i could really missed the thing so my word could be a seconding someone. Nontheless personally i think that this rep sell game, that dealers run isnt much more anything else than a simple marketing games. Whever we try to buy something, no matter where, seller tries to sell things to us at mainly all cost. I have found myslef dozens of times in situations like seller declared about something and when things came up, the declared statements were far from truth. But mostly I was happy with the thing anyway so I said myself "f**k it" and stayed without any complainments. And much do with reps I think. A dealer thinks "why should many of them bother a lie about "real syntetic shapire" if theyve spend 150usd which they been collection for quite some time, waited 2-3 weekes since theyve ordered their precious new watch and finally got it? They will have to wait another period of time to send it back, got another one". Theres where those little lies makes sense for them. If we have two advertisements about same rep, same priced, but one with real shapire, ETA mvt and other watch bling blings which one will you choose? And thoesnt that come suspicuos that two different dealers offers crap rep and "ultimate" rep at the same price? I do really expect dealers to colorize a bit whatever they try to sell, just to sell better. Remember, 10% of rep buyers ro less, more, whatever, is here on RWG, RWI, DS, WC and we could notice the difference. Keeping us informed trully, would make them to inform the whole world the truth that equals lower sales stats in the future. Or they could tell truth on our rep community sites while still lying to ohters on their sites, photobuckets. But on that case they would addmit to us, that this dusiness is full of missunderstanding. But about the lies themselves? At least dealers send watches they show on pictures on their sites and photobuckets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Usil Posted January 25, 2007 Report Share Posted January 25, 2007 Has anyone noticed any changes in claims or descriptions by our trusted dealers? Is it our expectations that they should do so? Usil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fitmic Posted January 25, 2007 Report Share Posted January 25, 2007 No changes what so ever! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted January 25, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2007 Has anyone noticed any changes in claims or descriptions by our trusted dealers? Is it our expectations that they should do so? Expectation? No. Hope? Yes. No, there is no evidence that dealers have changed any policies on anything because of this thread. Not yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r11co Posted January 25, 2007 Report Share Posted January 25, 2007 For what it's worth.... My first experience of Trustywatchguy was about 18 months ago when he was a 'photobucket' seller on "Photogallery 2" back on old RWG. He posted a face-on picture of a Breitling Chrono Avenger Ti with 7750 subdial spacing, advertised with 'Swiss movement'. The watch looked top class. It carried a pricetag of $150 - 'one only left'. I couldn't believe the deal, made contact and PayPal'd. Then something niggled at me and I asked what movement was in the watch and could he confirm the subdial spacing was 'as genuine' as one would expect with a 7750. Andrew replied it was a 'Swiss quartz' and sent back a picture of a completely different watch (one that looked not unlike Silix BRE102), and apologised that he'd originally posted the wrong picture. I asked if I could cancel the purchase, and I received a PayPal refund. It was not long after that when the 'Asian Unitas' appeared. Guess who advertised it as 'Swiss'?! Then I made the mistake of buying from Andrew (my rusty PO with the non-fitting strap). When the ultimate PO came out, of course - I wanted one - BADLY. I didn't buy it from the 'exclusive' holders - partly because of my experiences, and partly because the 'exclusive' hook (ie. the idea that I wouldn't get it from anywhere else) smelled of more Trusty [censored]. How many others jumped because of that one word, I wonder, thinking if they didn't then they would miss out ?! How many people paid $90 more than I did for this watch? I think 'white lies' sums up what they are up to perfectly. I do wonder if the irony of 'Trusty' in the name is not lost on the person using it?! Anyway, at Christmas time I wanted to buy my wife a watch that only Trustytime listed in stock. Rather than take the easy option and order from their site I enquired with Jay if he could source the same watch, which he did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
namor Posted January 25, 2007 Report Share Posted January 25, 2007 I agree.. but then we must assume that the current situation is not only due to abusing of drop shipping by our dealers... is also due to not doing one of their most important tasks: ensuring (however) that what they advertise is what they are really selling. If they make half of the money we guess (following deductions from an early post) they have the resources to see each of the watches they sell at least once. And ask for a random sample time to time. Is it so difficult? The lack of QC in these countries must be not only a matter of reducing prices but also a way of living Yes, you're right of course - and even if there's something wrong, the Dealers should work with us to resolve it. The Dealer whom I bought from the Bell&Ross first tried to convince me with these words: "It's 28'800 BPH and 21 Jewels, you can check that !" Maybe, but it's no ETA-2892 and no 2892-Copy-Movement, so as long it has the same BPH and number of Jewels you can call a movement ANYHOW you want to ! That's ridiculous ! @Namor - Thanks for pointing out the B&R, I really thought it had gotten good enough to get. The superlume and ETA were selling it to me big style. I held off due to other cash commitments, glad I did and I hope you get some resolution. If a dealer is being mislead by a factory then they should be able to respond to the customer when they complain, just keeping silent or bullshitting is not the way forward. Once again, as has been mentioned, where are the dealers with their thoughts? Even if it is one of them saying, yeah, air point, we will try and be a bit more aware and open with our dealings. We are not quite at the levels of goreplicas or one of those other total scam sites but we should stop this trend before it goes in the same direction. We all came here because we were all fed up of getting ripped by bad site, lets not let it happen here. Really really, stay away from this ! I have no clue what the big difference should be between the cheaper Asian and the "2892"-Version... It shouldn't matter. You're buying from the dealer, not the factory. Words like "my dealer lied to me" should only be heard in the email confirming that the correct replacement has arrived. Besides, they've read this thread, they've seen the reaction and the B&R is still advertised as Superlume and ETA2892. Yeah, I checked both sites too - still the same Description... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted January 25, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2007 Yeah, I checked both sites too - still the same Description... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TTK Posted January 25, 2007 Report Share Posted January 25, 2007 (edited) Having read this whole thread....there's a vein running thru' it that causes me some concern....and that is that it is giving the appearance that ALL dealers are liars.....this is most definitley NOT the case.....there are a goodly number of dealers who have not lied to their customers or members here....I regard myself as one of them and would take strong exception to any inference that I have lied to customers......I invested considerably in tools in order to present as accurately as possible the item that I offer....from digital calipers to digital scales and lately a diamond tester to confirm that sapphire crystal is used in the watch that my supplier tells me has sapphire......I show photographs of the watches I sell...showing the sapphire tester......if I say it's sapphire....IT IS sapphire......whilst in the past I used the term ...synthetic sapphire......that wasn't advertising puffery to disguise mineral glass......it was industry standard term for genuine sapphire.....if it was mineral glass.....I said it was mineral glass.....now in any of my posts....I use the term GENUINE sapphire.....and if it's mineral...it will say MINERAL....! I've invested a lot of time also in trying to source the best items I can find......and as I said in my 10 reasons statement....I do cherrypick all of my items.....spending a lot of time in making sure they are up to the standard I expect......! I've always been at the forefront when it came to transparency in the description of these items....from pricing to the accurate description of each and every item for sale......I was first to start using the familiar format that I use today.....which has been copied widely by many other dealers...........I don't recall ever using the terms..."Ultimate"....1:1.....or "Best Ever".......I tend to use terms such as 3rd generation.....etc etc.....Eddie Lee was the first to start using these terms.....I don't hold Eddie as a liar because of it.....it was just the way Eddie advertises.....kind of like..'new Colgate.....now even whiter teeth than before "......that's just marketing.....but saying a watch is fitted with an ETA when it so OBVIOUSLY isn't......is downright lying.......! It's the same when I photograph a watch....I always strive to give the best images I can....people like to see what they are getting......when you see an item from me.....that's what you get......because I don't drop ship.....so the selection of the watch is down to me.....I reject a lot of watches...simply because I wouldn't accept them myself.....some I let thru'.....because any fault it may have...is only discerned by using a 10x loupe.....and I son't sell watches so that members can run about with a 10x loupe saying to all and sundry ....look at this fault....dya think it's acceptable.......if it can't be seen with the naked eye....then it's fine...as far as I'm concerned....! What I don't approve of is deliberate lying........describing a movement as such and such when it isn't...such as the latest ETA's...( ? )......which aren't.....especially when your attention is drawn to it.......as has been done here with the dealers concerned.....I get a lot of stick on here for being slow....but one criticism that is very rarely ever levelled at me is that the quality of my items are not as described and shown......! A few comments have been made about watches being 'checked' etc etc........I was the first to post 10 good reasons why you should buy from me......it didn't take long for certain dealers to jump on my coat-tails......by claiming that they 'checked' their watches also......which I know is patently untrue.....they are and remain 'drop shippers' for factory supplied items.....which are never given the kind of scrutiny that I give them............the only other dealer that I know who checks personally all his own stock is Narikaa....how do I know....because we use the same suppliers......visit them at the same time...reject the same items as each other.....he personally checks his own stock......and doesn't drop ship......neither does he lie about the product........! I could publish dozens of e-mails that I have received from members who have expressed disappointment at the quality of items thay received from certain dealers......asking if I could supply the same items and offer a personal inspection service.....simply because they were fed up receiving wrong colour dials....poorly printed dials......watches that did not have mechanical issues....that's something that can happen to any dealer...DOA watches...are just part of the equation when dealing with these items......but poor quality watches are another aspect....and that's what most were complaining to me about......getting it wrong.....! So .....if anyone is labouring under the impression or feels that I am on the same level as the dealers here who have lied.....and still have made no effort to clarify the situation to you......please remove it from your mind......I am not of that ilk......! Edited January 25, 2007 by TTK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Usil Posted January 25, 2007 Report Share Posted January 25, 2007 Some people have painted with a broad brush in their comments but I think that most of the ones that have been here a while understand what you have said and agree that the comments do not apply to all the dealers. Your comments and participation has been greatly appreciated. Usil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted January 25, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2007 So .....if anyone is labouring under the impression or feels that I am on the same level as the dealers here who have lied.....and still have made no effort to clarify the situation to you......please remove it from your mind......I am not of that ilk......! Indeed. We applaud you and Silix for being the only two dealers willing to step up to the plate. Page two, you were mentioned as one of the dealers I used and your lack of lying was indeed mentioned. We all know who we're all really waiting for to defend themselves, however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r11co Posted January 25, 2007 Report Share Posted January 25, 2007 Don't expect it to change any time soon. We are a [censored] in the ocean for these guys' sales. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KB Posted January 25, 2007 Report Share Posted January 25, 2007 Don't expect it to change any time soon. Never say never Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niloc Posted January 25, 2007 Report Share Posted January 25, 2007 TTK needs to be applauded for his candour. IMHO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r11co Posted January 25, 2007 Report Share Posted January 25, 2007 The point of my post recounting my experiences with one of our conspicuous dealers is that this is not a new phenomenon. Leopards and spots come to mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crystalcranium Posted January 25, 2007 Report Share Posted January 25, 2007 I have an image of several dealers keeping their heads down waiting for the storm to blow over. This one wont until the false claims about this particular watch are corrected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bansenshukai Posted January 25, 2007 Report Share Posted January 25, 2007 BTW, Josh told me yesterday on e-mail that the movement for the "Perfect" Sub he sells is a genuine Swiss ETA movement and not a Chinese copy. Is this the case? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hiker01 Posted January 25, 2007 Report Share Posted January 25, 2007 BTW, Josh told me yesterday on e-mail that the movement for the "Perfect" Sub he sells is a genuine Swiss ETA movement and not a Chinese copy. Is this the case? Now I'm worried about this watch that I was planning to get, Now I'm not sure if this is just hype!!!: ROLSUB0014 - Rolex LV Green SS Submariner "PERFECT" - Swiss ETA http://www.ttwristwatch.com/index.php?main...products_id=797 and this: ROLYM006 - "Perfect" YachtMaster Rolesium Men's - Swiss ETA http://www.ttwristwatch.com/index.php?main...products_id=852 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted January 25, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2007 Now I'm worried about this watch that I was planning to get, Now I'm not sure if this is just hype!!!: Dealers, see what happens if you try to defraud us? You make us doubt everything. Hike: I'm pretty sure you're looking at two ETA-powered watches, but these days, who knows? It's not my job to clarify things on behalf of the dealers, and they themselves are being mighty quiet... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chronus Posted January 25, 2007 Report Share Posted January 25, 2007 they are honest guys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r11co Posted January 25, 2007 Report Share Posted January 25, 2007 I've always considered the 'Perfect Sub' with full service [censored] to be the equivalent of a car salesman boosting the profits by overpricing the addition of 'Supaguard' waxing, underbody treatment, mats, etc. etc. etc. Do some people still get taken in by such rubbish? SPECIAL MODIFICATIONS DONE - *The Additional USD120 Difference Explained* This "PERFECT" Submariner is specially sent for FULL SERVICE whereby the entire movement is completely overhauled, reassembled, serviced and re-lubricated with Swiss imported lubricants and the timing calibration adjusted to +/- 5 seconds per day (COSC Standards) Additional Seals and gaskets are added and watch is pressure tested to 5 bars and tested to 45m waterproof All of the above works are carried out by Swiss Trained Technicians" Those'll be the same Swiss lubricants and Swiss trained technicians that came along with the Swiss Asian movements?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chronus Posted January 25, 2007 Report Share Posted January 25, 2007 I hear much about synthetic sapphire, but I don't see anyone pointing to a specific ad, nor do I see anyone saying they were misled, or ultimately cheated. EXACTLY which watch is Joshua advertising as synthetic sapphire? If he is still advertising mineral glass as synthetic sapphire, that's one thing, but if he is not, someone should acknowledge that he made a mistake and corrected it. http://watchwindersworld.com/pn21204-1950-...7750-p-977.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gran Posted January 25, 2007 Report Share Posted January 25, 2007 I have an image of several dealers keeping their heads down waiting for the storm to blow over. This one wont until the false claims about this particular watch are corrected. Well said and obviously we dont think that all dealers are crooks. Note: any phtographic likeness with know dealers is not intended Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falco Posted January 25, 2007 Report Share Posted January 25, 2007 (edited) Peace and love and keep your thumbs crossed Edited January 25, 2007 by Falco Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddhead Posted January 25, 2007 Report Share Posted January 25, 2007 Expectation? No. Hope? Yes. No, there is no evidence that dealers have changed any policies on anything because of this thread. Not yet. I think that is what really galls me.. .that and the lack of input from most of our major dealers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddhead Posted January 25, 2007 Report Share Posted January 25, 2007 It shouldn't matter. You're buying from the dealer, not the factory. Words like "my dealer lied to me" should only be heard in the email confirming that the correct replacement has arrived. Besides, they've read this thread, they've seen the reaction and the B&R is still advertised as Superlume and ETA2892. there goes that *ponk* sound again! sound Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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