Today's best 6542, the "Pussy Galore"

[Ronin]

11 hours ago, RickFlorida said:

How does one even get a hold of Phong?  I asked him a simple question a month or two ago and never heard back. 

Are you contacting him on WhatsApp or email?  Did you email a bunch of questions?  
 

From my experience, he prefers WhatsApp and “few” questions. Either you know exactly what you want and are ready to pull the trigger -or you will not be a priority. HTH. 

[Nanuq]

Exactly right. There is ONE Phong, like there used to be ONE Maria and he wouldn’t make time to educate you. “HI I need a 6538 case engraved with this serial number and a faded no hash marks red triangle insert, lightly aged.” He’d reply with a price and when you sent payment your were in his work queue. No chit chat.

He’s actually a pretty good watchmaker and I needed something tricky done that had stumped 3 other guys. I took the chance and said “I have this problem, 3 other people said it can’t be done” and he said “send it to me” and he did it.

Compared to Minh Quy this is kid gloves treatment.

[curiousbunny]

4 hours ago, Nanuq said:

Exactly right. There is ONE Phong, like there used to be ONE Maria and he wouldn’t make time to educate you. “HI I need a 6538 case engraved with this serial number and a faded no hash marks red triangle insert, lightly aged.” He’d reply with a price and when you sent payment your were in his work queue. No chit chat.

He’s actually a pretty good watchmaker and I needed something tricky done that had stumped 3 other guys. I took the chance and said “I have this problem, 3 other people said it can’t be done” and he said “send it to me” and he did it.

Compared to Minh Quy this is kid gloves treatment.

How would Minh Quy reply? Based on your experience.

 

He sell 18k gold cases, i think he might be few or the only vertically integrated factory. MQ is likely manufactured in vietnam from 0% to 100%. Some vietnam cases look refinished from a unfinished chinese rep.

Edited May 24, 2021 by curiousbunny

[Ronin]

I don’t want to speak for Nanuq. But, I think what he is saying is if you think Phong is tough to work with, MQ is is tough and of lessor quality. 
 

If you have high expectations, or expect customer service, on par with Amazon/Wal-Mart or eBay you may need to recalibrate your expectations. 
 

These guys don’t chit chat, educate, or answer more than one question.  You take the risk / GAMBLE that you will get what you want.

 

If you want a 6542, that still won’t fool a VRF/TRF or RWG guru, that is the closest to Genuine, 10x5 powered,be prepared to gamble $7000 with Phong. Simple as that.  
 

If you want something turn-key, and done right, I doubt you will find it or be satisfied. That is why most of here have taken the DIY approach and/or learned enough watchmaking to correct/finish/fix the final details.  
 

...again the last thing you want to do is send these guys paragraphs of txt., or a large list of questions.  Give them simple marching orders, cross your fingers, hope for the best, and be prepared to fix something on your own. 

[RickFlorida]

I wan to share some helpful information while we are talking about dealing with MQ, Rubywatch, etc.    Because I consider you all my friends here for how generous you have been with information and help. Especially people like Automatico, JackFlash, and others (forgive me if I didn't name others who help me a lot).  Here is my way of paying it forward....

 

When making purchases with Vietnam dealers, I had a lot of problems with how to pay. Most of them will not take Pay Pal. In fact, none of the ones here we mentioned will take Pay Pal, at least for purchases over 400 or 600 bucks. When you wire money to them, be absolutely sure you have their complete First, Last, and middle names.  In Vietname, even if you have the SWIFT code perfect as well as the Bank codes, etc... if you write their name different in any way, the banks in Vietname will do a "soft reject" of the money.  MQ, RubyWatch, or whoever you are sending money to in Vietnam will not be able to get the money.   In most countries, if you accidently put the last name as first name correct, the banks will still transfer the money to the recipient. But Vietnamese Banks never release the money unless you get every part of their name perfectly, regardless of having perfect SWIFT and BIC codes.   You will get your money back but your bank that sent the wire transfer will charge you another 80 dollar fee or so.  This happened to me once.   MQ was actually easy to do deal with for me.  I sent MQ Western Union and it's easier for Vietnamese merchants to pick up their money from Western Union. But if you don't make your wire transfers perfectly, it will get rejected and cost you 80 dollars or so on top of the initial fee you paid to wire money.  American banks are scumbags so our wire transfer fees are much higher than in Europe so maybe this is not a big deal for a lot of you.   This is why I'm so [censored] that NDTrading no longer exists.  She is in California and used to sell the Vietnamese made Rolex cases and dials. I don't know if she accepted Pay Pal or Credit Cards but I'm 100% sure it was easier to pay her that the merchants who are physically in Vietnam like now.

[Nanuq]

How would Minh Quy reply? Based on your experience.

I had a pretty nice, very expensive 6538 case from MQ and wanted the lug tips more canoe shaped so I asked if he could weld metal on and machine it, and sent a pic.

He replied “Case is junk, is not my case”.

Ok scratch MQ, hello Phong.

[curiousbunny]

2 hours ago, Nanuq said:

 

I had a pretty nice, very expensive 6538 case from MQ and wanted the lug tips more canoe shaped so I asked if he could weld metal on and machine it, and sent a pic.

He replied “Case is junk, is not my case”.

Ok scratch MQ, hello Phong.

 

Is genuine 6538 same case as 6542? How much did you pay MQ? Welding metal on is doable for most machinists, but machining it to look flush and one piece, magic is needed. I'm almost sure it'll look worse after machining.

Edited May 24, 2021 by curiousbunny

[Nanuq]

No the 6538 is far different from a 6542.  A 6536 is much closer.  

 

In the end I told him to pound sand and didn't do the case mod.

[curiousbunny]

Phong is 5k and thats diificult to concieve. Over at RWI, someone installed gen bridge and free sprung wheel ($400) on VSF Sub, a few were livid considering it insane expense...

 

This probably the closest 1:1 submariner in history.

 

1. ROLEXROLEXROLEX written surrounding the dial needs gentle hand polishing, machine polishing is quick but often remove too much metal. 2. A gen crystal. 3. A few proper size screws inside movement. 4. Balance bridge and free sprung system.

 

You'll fool a professional watchmaker.

 

To be honest, I wouldnt mind a solid gold two-tone root beer GMT by VSF.

Edited May 24, 2021 by curiousbunny

[curiousbunny]

Freddy? How much is your 6542? Does it accept gen movement? 

[curiousbunny]

A question for everyone, are rep cases made casted or forged? Many say they're made from solid block but what does that mean?

 

 

Forged is always prefered as metals are uniformly in one direction, unseen by the naked eye.

 

Bracelet are probably casted. There are cryogenic treatment services locally, i could probably strengthen my watch stronger than gen... Now if chinese rep follow japanese Kizen, they would consistently improve to outcompete the genuine, as Honda did with 1990s NSX beating the Ferrari it meant to imitate.

 

As you know, steel is alloy of many metal and gas elements. On periodic table, higher atomic number is a larger piece of element.. Over 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 atoms exist in 100 grams of element Fe (iron).

 

In alloys, getting large and small elements together to mix evenly isn't easy. Scientists are still struggling to fully understand the mechanics in metallurgy. Chrome, iron, silicon, nickel, copper, nitrogen - all varies in size.

 

Current high end method is, nano powered metal > forged > cut into final product > cryogenic treatment. In comparison of standard industry forged, the new method cost more, almost never done except for race car engines, military armor and spaceships... It is vastly superior in hardness without being brittle, scratch resistance, corrosion resistance and rust resistance.  

[Sogeha]

6 hours ago, curiousbunny said:

Phong is 5k and thats diificult to concieve. Over at RWI, someone installed gen bridge and free sprung wheel ($400) on VSF Sub, a few were livid considering it insane expense...

 

This probably the closest 1:1 submariner in history.

 

1. ROLEXROLEXROLEX written surrounding the dial needs gentle hand polishing, machine polishing is quick but often remove too much metal. 2. A gen crystal. 3. A few proper size screws inside movement. 4. Balance bridge and free sprung system.

 

You'll fool a professional watchmaker.

 

To be honest, I wouldnt mind a solid gold two-tone root beer GMT by VSF.

 

Looking to fool people isn't what this hobby is about and if you think any watchmaker who has worked on genuine Rolex movements is going to be fooled by any clone movement, you are deceiving yourself 

[curiousbunny]

10 hours ago, Sogeha said:

 

Looking to fool people isn't what this hobby is about and if you think any watchmaker who has worked on genuine Rolex movements is going to be fooled by any clone movement, you are deceiving yourself 

Never claimed that's the goal.. Watchmakers would charge GEN repair prices if they thought it was gen.. $100 for full service at local mall, $300 if they believe it's gen..... Occam's razor..

 

People buy close to gen as possible cause it makes them happy, OTHER WISE YOU'LL GET SOMETHING FROM DHGATE for $7....! By the logic by some on RWG/RWI are same as youtube and facebook comments.. I already sensed people accusing me of trying to sell fake as gen.

 

I highly doubt genuine Rolex made in 2021 are nano-powdered steel after cryogenic treatment, otherwise they wouldn't scratch easily. High nitrogen content replace carbon percentage improve hardness and further reduce corrosion

 

I've been suggested techniques to make it BETTER than GEN from many post such as metallurgy and modern superluminova lume on vintage watches, sapphire crystal replacement on vintage watches with double AR cyclops.. That might displease one crowd, fine.

 

 

When suggestion techniques to make close to gen as possible, I get accused of trying to sell as genuine.. I certainly rather pay $100 for service than $300 after watchmaker suspect it's real..

 

I'M OUT!

Edited May 25, 2021 by curiousbunny

[Sogeha]

1 hour ago, curiousbunny said:

Never claimed that's the goal.. Watchmakers would charge GEN repair prices if they thought it was gen.. $100 for full service at local mall, $300 if they believe it's gen..... Occam's razor..

 

People buy close to gen as possible cause it makes them happy, OTHER WISE YOU'LL GET SOMETHING FROM DHGATE for $7....! By the logic by some on RWG/RWI are same as youtube and facebook comments.. I already sensed people accusing me of trying to sell fake as gen.

 

I've been suggestion techniques to make it BETTER than GEN from many post such as metallurgy and modern superluminova lume on vintage watches, sapphire crystal replacement on vintage watches.. That displease one crowd, fine.

 

I highly doubt genuine Rolex made in 2021 are nano-powdered steel after cryogenic treatment, otherwise they wouldn't scratch easily.

 

When suggestion techniques to make close to gen as possible, I get accused...

 

I'M OUT!

If by people you mean senior Admin, crew and long standing members, and if by accusations you mean concerns, then you are probably correct 

 

There is far less wrong with buying a $7 rep on DHGate than in trying to fool others or yourself that a rep is genuine 

[curiousbunny]

I have a previous generation balance bridge and a free-sprung balance wheel for a Sub/GMT, there's a 3D printing company near by, where I can produce 1:1 replica.. Forget that too.

[Nanuq]

Curious,

Adding sapphire and Luminova to a vintage watch would ruin it. Would you replace the carburetors with fuel injection on a 60s Pontiac “Six Pack”? Would you put an automatic transmission in a 60s Shelby Cobra? Would you drop an electric motor in a Model A Ford?

These old things are appreciated as throwbacks to earlier years precisely of their anachronistic parts and quirks. That’s why people search for years to find the right plastic crystal for their watch and happily pay hundreds of dollars for it.

Newer is not always better.

[freddy333]

On 5/24/2021 at 12:19 PM, Ronin said:

I don’t want to speak for Nanuq. But, I think what he is saying is if you think Phong is tough to work with, MQ is is tough and of lessor quality. 

My experience has been exactly the opposite, assuming you know what you want & are able to articulate it, MQ generally follows through. Remember, also, that English is not the 1st language for these guys. So you need to thread the needle between detail--getting your point across & confusion--not overwhelming them with too much info that can lead to misunderstandings.
Further, Ziggy used to send me (& post publicly) pics of the nightmarish mess he often found inside most of Phong's expensive 'new' builds.

[RickFlorida]

1 hour ago, curiousbunny said:

there's a 3D printing company near by, where I can produce 1:1 replica.. Forget that too.

I was hoping we could 3d print cases and then finish machining them or something but I kept hitting brick walls.

 

I think the best way to get an accurate replica case is to have a genuine midcase and the caseback accurately 3d Scanned with high resolution scanning tools that are designed to take in details from the inside of the case as well as the outside (there are only like 2 scanning tools for internal accuracy), and then have the point-cloud turned into an actual CNC file that has the intructions on the finished thread cuttings and hole diameters.   Then we can simply upload our file to an online CNC service.  The issue of course is that we probably have to have the midcase and caseback sterile (no engravings), or you will never be able to send the file to be CNC's out of steel due to trademarks.

[automatico]

"A question for everyone, are rep cases made casted or forged? Many say they're made from solid block but what does that mean?

Forged is always prefered as metals are uniformly in one direction, unseen by the naked eye."

 

The majority of rolex style cases are made by stamping.

Stamping = 'case blanks' are punched out of flat stock just like flat washers.  The small vertical lines on the mid case and between the lugs are from when the stamping die punched the part out and/or the next step...die forging.  The blanks are precision die forged next to shape the lug tops etc.  All precision areas are machined...case neck, case back threads, inside of the case, reflector aka 'rehaut' etc. 

Flat stock = sheet metal.

'Solid block' = advertising BS, it sounds better than sheet metal. 

 

Evolution of a rolex case, the image is from a post by 'Jocke' (Sweden):

http://www.watchwallpapers.com/tocb3.jpg

 

My guess is many of the rolex replica cases are made basically the same way the genuine cases are...with a bit less precision.

Quite a bit in some cases.  (pun!) 

 

"Bracelet are probably casted."

 

The links are made from sawed off or stamped pieces of rods, flat stock, or tubing.  The raw rods etc are formed by drawing steel or gold through a die.

 

PMP (powdered metal process) is another method of making parts, hand wrenches for example because it eliminates most of the machining.  

 

Ka-wham!  Here's your wrench...  

 

Seiko made some of the early 'Arctura' cases by this method.

 

                    

 

 

Powdered Metal Process for Metalworking (zioninduction.com)

 

Vol.1 | by Seiko watch design (seiko-design.com)

[freddy333]

On 5/24/2021 at 8:10 PM, curiousbunny said:

Freddy? How much is your 6542? Does it accept gen movement? 

 

I have 2 & to answer my previous question -- the black 6542 contains a modified (to add GMT functions) ETA slow-beat, and excepting the insert (from JoeyB) & the dial (repainted by Kirk Rich--Rolex's official US dial refinisher) the white 6542 is all gen (mostly NOS as of when I assembled the parts). There are numerous threads detailing the stories of these watches that you should be able to find via the search.