Guest TTK Posted February 2, 2007 Report Share Posted February 2, 2007 (edited) History.....ancient history....Chamberlain and appeasement....! BTW....who the [censored] is Kevin....? Edited February 2, 2007 by TTK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonthebhoy Posted February 2, 2007 Report Share Posted February 2, 2007 BTW....who the [censored] is Kevin....? http://www.rwg.cc/members/index.php?s=&...st&p=194691 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmeister Posted February 2, 2007 Report Share Posted February 2, 2007 jonthebhoy- I am listening. And I understand that no one is looking to resolve this prematurely. My simple premise is people can make up their own minds as to whether someone buys from someone else. The Admin and mods absolutely make the final decision as to what goes on here (although the number of dealer pieces being offered is declining here ergo your only penalty can be to throw them off the forum) and I am trying to provide you with real (action-oriented) feedback. IMHO, the issue isn't "people shouldn't lie". I don't think there is anyone who would disagree with that. The question is what do you want to do about it. I find that people on these forums often "talk smack", to use a euphemism from my teenage son, until they have to make a real decision which impacts them. The mods will make their own decision but the forum member input really boils down to keep the dealers on the forum, toss them on the forum or allow them to remain on the forum with reasonable conditions. Am I missing something? Oh I guess you could ban for some period of time or until their descriptions satisfy whoever is the description police. But as I said at the beginning of this post there is no reason to rush. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
narikaa Posted February 3, 2007 Report Share Posted February 3, 2007 ..... but this brings to mind another COMPLETELY [censored]ING IRRELEVANT little fact ....... Irrelevancies, (copulating or otherwise) in this thread? Surely not! . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andreww Posted February 3, 2007 Report Share Posted February 3, 2007 (edited) TTK posted - a subsequently largely overlooked or dissmissed - post which lucidly outlined the minimum immediate action that I would expect any forum dealer to carry out. Certainly I would not need it drawn out for me if I found myself in such lamentable circumstances. An old proverb says; "The best time to keep your mouth shut is when you find yourself in deep water" Edited April 12, 2007 by andreww Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
narikaa Posted February 3, 2007 Report Share Posted February 3, 2007 An old proverb says; "The best time to keep your mouth shut is when you find yourself in deep water" Duality..... my mouth shut? or the collective silence of many shut mouths???? As the actions of the subjects of this thread have ABSOLUTELY NO bearing on myself (if they collectively sell 10,000 watches today, rip off any or all their customers, or dissappear in a cloud of oriental smoke, it will fortunately not impact on me one iota), and there are at the last check no 'skeletons in my cupboard' I surely cant be in any 'deep water'. So this must by a process of elimination be a reference to the collective silence over Neil's post. Although the sublety seems to have been lost I really thought the 'Drug Deal' scenario wholly germaine. You see as with most criminal trades, strength is the only arbiter (as by nature the business operates outside the influence of legalities). And theres the rub, when strength equals or exceeds that of another the unbridled nature of the game is that you then take liberties with the weaker party. Here on the forum the buyers 'strength' with the dealers is the threat of ostracism & consumer power (wallet voting & public denouncing), all fine and dandy, but , now you have the situation that anothers strength has brought about the (inevitable) liberty take, and the soul searching question 'whatya gonna do now?' is laid at your door. You see there you have it - the guantlet is at your collective feet - (I myself am a fortunate spectator in this scenario) I wonder if the exponents of the "he's only put it in a little bit, and he's always been so nice he surely won't push it in any further" school o thought will get there wish . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertk Posted February 3, 2007 Report Share Posted February 3, 2007 Duality..... my mouth shut? or the collective silence of many shut mouths???? As the actions of the subjects of this thread have ABSOLUTELY NO bearing on myself (if they collectively sell 10,000 watches today, rip off any or all their customers, or dissappear in a cloud of oriental smoke, it will fortunately not impact on me one iota), and there are at the last check no 'skeletons in my cupboard' I surely cant be in any 'deep water'. So this must by a process of elimination be a reference to the collective silence over Neil's post. Although the sublety seems to have been lost I really thought the 'Drug Deal' scenario wholly germaine. You see as with most criminal trades, strength is the only arbiter (as by nature the business operates outside the influence of legalities). And theres the rub, when strength equals or exceeds that of another the unbridled nature of the game is that you then take liberties with the weaker party. Here on the forum the buyers 'strength' with the dealers is the threat of ostracism & consumer power (wallet voting & public denouncing), all fine and dandy, but , now you have the situation that anothers strength has brought about the (inevitable) liberty take, and the soul searching question 'whatya gonna do now?' is laid at your door. You see there you have it - the guantlet is at your collective feet - (I myself am a fortunate spectator in this scenario) I wonder if the exponents of the "he's only put it in a little bit, and he's always been so nice he surely won't push it in any further" school o thought will get there wish . Or from the customer point of view "no,no,no", to "Oh my god", "Yes,Yes,Yes"! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Posted February 3, 2007 Report Share Posted February 3, 2007 As it has been written here, I've been communicating with the dealers in the background here. Because of certain events, Joshua and Andrew are currently busy. Because of this I am posting this reply on behalf of them; Andrew and Joshua will honor all returns and refunds on this watch if you are not satisfied with it. Just direct any queries to Joshua or Andrew and they will take care of it. They are sorry for the way this matter has been handled, and as soon as they have time available they will correct the descriptions on their websites. They also expect other dealers to be scrutinized the same way they have been in this matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crystalcranium Posted February 3, 2007 Report Share Posted February 3, 2007 As it has been written here, I've been communicating with the dealers in the background here. Because of certain events, Joshua and Andrew are currently busy. Because of this I am posting this reply on behalf of them; Andrew and Joshua will honor all returns and refunds on this watch if you are not satisfied with it. Just direct any queries to Joshua or Andrew and they will take care of it. They are sorry for the way this matter has been handled, and as soon as they have time available they will correct the descriptions on their websites. They also expect other dealers to be scrutinized the same way they have been in this matter. Bravo....now that should finish it yes????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andreww Posted February 3, 2007 Report Share Posted February 3, 2007 Thats just great! Kudos to Andrew and Josh for doing the right thing. Not sure how many B&Rs they will get back though, they are sweet looking pieces, eta or not! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cornerstone Posted February 3, 2007 Report Share Posted February 3, 2007 they are sweet looking pieces, eta or not! Exactly! And that's why there's nothing to fear by being straight-up with the specs from here on going forward. On the issues that really matter, this is a good result. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmeister Posted February 3, 2007 Report Share Posted February 3, 2007 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwoTone Posted February 3, 2007 Report Share Posted February 3, 2007 Case Closed! Now we will return to our regular scheduled programming... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddhead Posted February 3, 2007 Report Share Posted February 3, 2007 Irrelevancies, (copulating or otherwise) in this thread? Surely not! . please don't encourage him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craytonic Posted February 3, 2007 Report Share Posted February 3, 2007 Good to hear this was wrapped up! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TTK Posted February 3, 2007 Report Share Posted February 3, 2007 (edited) They also expect other dealers to be scrutinized the same way they have been in this matter. I think that's always been a given......and I think what they really mean is that if at some future date....another dealer gets caught with his pants at his ankles.....then THEY expect him to get his ass paddled just as they did......! I remember my son was out playing football in the garden with one of his friends.....he broke a neighbours window.......I asked him if he had broken the window.....he replied ...'no Dad it wasn't me...."....so I asked his little friend who broke the window....'he sang like a canary'...."it was him"...pointing to my son........I explained to my son later why he got his ass paddled....with no sweets or comics that week.....not for breaking the window.....but...for lying......! Edited February 3, 2007 by TTK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotoman Posted February 3, 2007 Report Share Posted February 3, 2007 I think that's always been a given......and I think what they really mean is that if at some future date....another dealer gets caught with his pants at his ankles.....then THEY expect him to get his ass paddled just as they did......! I remember my son was out playing football in the garden with one of his friends.....he broke a neighbours window.......I asked him if he had broken the window.....he replied ...'no Dad it wasn't me...."....so I asked his little friend who broke the window....'he sang like a canary'...."it was him"...pointing to my son........I explained to my son later why he got his ass paddled....with no sweets or comics that week.....not for breaking the window.....but...for lying......! its never the crime but the cover up that gets ya Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmeister Posted February 3, 2007 Report Share Posted February 3, 2007 Neil- What would you have done if he had immediately fessed up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TTK Posted February 3, 2007 Report Share Posted February 3, 2007 Paddled his ass.....and no comics nor sweets for a week.....! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmeister Posted February 4, 2007 Report Share Posted February 4, 2007 Yeah, me too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stang Posted February 5, 2007 Report Share Posted February 5, 2007 A quick thought. (I apologize if this has been mentioned already & I missed it) Sometimes a dealer can actually do us a favor by slightly embellishing the descriptions or listing creative terms (i.e superlume) for their watches. This is particularly true for inexperienced buyers like myself. Truly unscrupulous dealers (or outright crooks who won't send you anything) have no compunctions about blatantly misleading consumers. Displaying pictures of watches they don't possess, sending inferior replacements, making outrageous claims, etc., can dupe unsuspecting buyers into buying a product which "seems" better. After all, how will a replica newbie differentiate between honest dealers (like at this site) from scam artists w/ only web-site descriptions to go by? I know, I know ... buyer beware ... but it's not always easy. I would much rather get a very good quality replica than a crummy fake (or nothing at all), even if the description was slightly exaggerated. I may be a newbie, but even I don't expect to get a genuine ETA 7750, real superluminova, etc for $2-300. Some common sense must prevail. I seems like the replicas offered by Josh (et al) are excellent values and very accurate reproductions of the originals. Great buys, regardless of any descriptive inaccuracies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devedander Posted February 5, 2007 Report Share Posted February 5, 2007 Stang - your logic sounds good but it's flawed... it leans the wrong way to solve the problem. What is to keep people from buying from scam sites? Our forum. What are we not here to support? Leaning towards the practices of scam sites, because that's just a slippery slope. Harmless little fibs get more and more substantial until they become outright lies and the problem is they are only a step worse than the previous step so they can't be that bad right? Look up the slippery slope argument, it's a well known logical falacy. Essentially your argument amounts to: Rather than stop man A from slightly beating his girlfriend, we should be happy he is not like man B who throttles his girlfriend on a daily baises. We are very lucky to have our excellent dealers here, and they do indeed treat us to some oustanding service in many categories. But they are peopel and are fallable as are all people... we all push and test boundaries on a regular basis, and that's why it's always important to remind each other where the line is and when toeing it becomes a full foot over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TTK Posted February 5, 2007 Report Share Posted February 5, 2007 What do you say to a woman with two black eyes....? "I won't tell you a third time"....! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devedander Posted February 5, 2007 Report Share Posted February 5, 2007 (edited) What do you say to a woman with two black eyes....? Nothing... I already told her twice. Edited February 5, 2007 by Devedander Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted February 5, 2007 Report Share Posted February 5, 2007 Sometimes a dealer can actually do us a favor by slightly embellishing the descriptions or listing creative terms (i.e superlume) for their watches. This is particularly true for inexperienced buyers like myself. More of a favour than being 100% accurate in their descriptions? I don't get your logic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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