The Time has Come to Say Something....

[cramiekske]

Hi all,

After getting this far, I would like to add my comments on this rather strange behaviour of our "trusted" 4 cartel dealers. Since these 4 are all well known on all replica forums RWG, RWI and TRC, a reason more not to have this discussion only on RWG but include the other forums as well (myself I started reading this threat from TRC), since some newbies stick to one forum and not necessarily read the others.

I find their behaviour unacepptable in misleading all kind of members (from noobs to veterans), and trying to gain a much higher and hugher profit in selling crap reps by stating that it contains high quality movements. (There is no excuse in justifying their behaviour, Not even the "Master" did impress me, bacause if they had the power they would sa NO, this is not what we want, change it again.) As for the cartel business, it has been proven (read the email that has been send) and it can only be regretted that this has happend, this is not the open atmosphere that should be on a forum like this where collecting replicas is a hobby for most of us, and not a very nice way in getting more dollars out of our pockert of members by getting this organised.

But the other side of the medal is that they need us as their customers, because without us they will not make any money, Banning them (permanent or even for a short while) as they asked to do with others in order to keep their business going, is not an issue because they will come up under a different form (another alias, another guy, who knows,..). At least for me I have made up my mind. I hate being lied to, I don't mind paying a bit more if the quality represented is what I'm going to get. So from now on these 4 so called "truted dealers" will no longer get my undevided attention and my purchase orders for new replicas. This will now go to those that upkep the spirit of free replica handling.

To my humble experience I hope this is the end, and not the starting of another hunt because we need our dealers, otherwise their would be no need for forums like these.

Thank, Back to sleeping/lurking mode

[r11co]

I'm getting somewhat confused by the varied topics on this thread, so I'd like to ask a specific question. At least two of the four dealers criticized advertise a Breitling Chronomat Evolution with two different movements: an Asian 7750 and a Swiss 7750. The price difference between the two watches is considerable. Is it being maintained here that the Swiss 7750 in these watches is not a genuine Swiss movement but an Asian copy?

In the past the distinction between Asian and Swiss 7750 has pretty much been recognised and accepted. I have never yet read in here of someone paying the extra for a Swiss 7750 and receiving an Asian.

I can understand your uncertainty though. What I will add is that the price differential between Swiss and Asian 7750 chrono reps is no longer reflected in the price of Swiss 7750 movements on the open market - whereas at one time they were scarce and expensive they can now sometimes be obtained for less than $200.

[Richard Tracy]

I just wanted to post that Jay confirmed that he knows about the four dealer gang, as they

have made it difficult for him to obtain certain watches.

Which is one of the reasons he agreed to produce his own line, which he says will sell for less than

what the gang of 4 can afford, and urges patience with the projects he has in the works for us.

He closes with " I truely believe fair and honest dealer behavior will be rewarded."

That's enough for me to agree 100% with Edge,... and thank him for his sleuth work and for

spearheading this positive change for our community !

[COOP]

I like dealing with Jay as well. He has been good me. I am interested to see what he has in the works.

[Torques]

After all the information that has recently been revealed, I think I will avoid Josh and Andrew. After being promised by Joshua to have gold plated replacement links sent to me after the bands I received from him had two seized screws, I have never received anything since February. I had to dremmel the links out to size the band. I have bought three watches from Joshua and am very happy with them.

[FxrAndy]

He closes with " I truely believe fair and honest dealer behavior will be rewarded."

Here here, from my side it will be.

[crystalcranium]

In the past the distinction between Asian and Swiss 7750 has pretty much been recognised and accepted. I have never yet read in here of someone paying the extra for a Swiss 7750 and receiving an Asian.

I can understand your uncertainty though. What I will add is that the price differential between Swiss and Asian 7750 chrono reps is no longer reflected in the price of Swiss 7750 movements on the open market - whereas at one time they were scarce and expensive they can now sometimes be obtained for less than $200.

I don't know of any asian for swiss swaps with this movement but it would be foolish. There are so many physical differences between the two movements visibly obvious to the naked eye that anyone even marginally informed about the two movements could spot the difference.

[johnboy777]

This all strikes me as being very funny, actually.

What a great read!

All of this whining, as if you weren't dealing with vendors that were procuring illicit, illegal, counterfeit goods.

They are all trafficking in illegal goods, committing criminal acts; but they

[bricky]

They are all trafficking in illegal goods, committing criminal acts; but they

[FxrAndy]

This all strikes me as being very funny, actually.

What a great read!

All of this whining, as if you weren't dealing with vendors that were procuring illicit, illegal, counterfeit goods.

They are all trafficking in illegal goods, committing criminal acts; but they

[JWR]

I just wanted to post that Jay confirmed that he knows about the four dealer gang, as they

have made it difficult for him to obtain certain watches.

Which is one of the reasons he agreed to produce his own line, which he says will sell for less than

what the gang of 4 can afford, and urges patience with the projects he has in the works for us.

He closes with " I truely believe fair and honest dealer behavior will be rewarded."

That's enough for me to agree 100% with Edge,... and thank him for his sleuth work and for

spearheading this positive change for our community !

I have also been talking to Jay about this whole thing, starting with the steelfish... he has been working on getting it and was shocked when the initial price of offering was announced... additionally he has worked with me to find random parts and so on in the past... definitely a top notch character!

[Lyndonville]

Yes they should.... after all we're paying them. I wonder what they'd say if all of a sudden nobody would buy from them anymore.....

Probably not much. After all, they do have their Internet sales. And, who is to say that any dealer isn't selling under a different name on the Net? Ever taken a look at www.ioffer.com? Hundreds and hundreds of watches in there. Are they any good? Who knows? Maybe we get Tier 1 here [maybe not] and the ones you see for sale in the Internet are sold by the same people, but, those are Tier 2. Whatever................. Tim

[mumum]

The more I read the more I want to see some resolution one way or the other. Honesty is what I think would make many satisfied. Regardless if we are "dealing in illigal goods ect..." and all that b.s. There still exists honesty among theives (ever heard of that?). I for one am not well versed in movements, and would be [censored] if I did not get what was advertised. Money aint growing on trees and if you want loyalty then stand by your word.

[pabra]

Wna buy a watch off me then

Seadweller, 1/1, perfect, rolex 3135 works, $300????????????

280 here! Hell, I even take paypal.

Mine is a Peedweller though Those damned [wagner]MAKERS[/wagner] didn't listen.

[yodaddynukka]

wow unreal!!!!

An interesting discovery...

uPO Lite not 2824

More blatant misrepresentation.

[COOP]

From my post this morning on RWI:

Not trying to belittle our ability to make change in any way, just trying to figure out how big a piece of the pie we are.

On Joshs site there is a hit counter at the very bottom on the right side. It reads as of right now 3,734,009 since July 05, thats about 4100 hits a day. And that just Josh. If this number is accurate and you add in all the other dealers with sites, and the dealers without sites, it makes us look like a smaller piece. Some one RWG mentioned that the replica industry is WAY bigger then any of us know,

http://www.rwg.cc/members/index.php?showto...3455&st=420

If this is true, the BIG 4 may not give a rats ass about these forums. It would also mean that the dealers are getting links from other places then just our forums.

Is there any way to tell just how big a ball this is?

@manu_72: You have a good point, but since I posted the original number, the hit count has gone up over 500 hits in less than 45min. If they average only 300 hits an hour it would mean around 7200 hits a day. Which would put them on pace for WAY over my intial number. By the way, B9 has a hit counter as well, theirs is at 9,372,539 since April 05. Thats almost 260,400 hits a month, and they have not been with US that long. And would also put them way ahead of josh.

And I was'nt saying our vote wouldnt count, Just that we may not be as big a deal to them as we think.

I know hit counters may not mean anything, Any body here know any solid numbers on the rep business?

Edited March 29, 2007 by COOP

[mumum]

I just wanted to post that Jay confirmed that he knows about the four dealer gang, as they

have made it difficult for him to obtain certain watches.

Which is one of the reasons he agreed to produce his own line, which he says will sell for less than

what the gang of 4 can afford, and urges patience with the projects he has in the works for us.

He closes with " I truely believe fair and honest dealer behavior will be rewarded."

That's enough for me to agree 100% with Edge,... and thank him for his sleuth work and for

spearheading this positive change for our community !

Guys, who is Jay? This is the type of dealer I would like to have business with. pm me if thats better. Thanks.

[By-Tor]

...what makes me sad is that i don't see many old members posting their opinion here...

Only read......................and read...............and read........................and.............read.........

Did this forum lost its directions and purposes or what?

I am thinking ... many things ...

I've stated my opinion already. I don't like to repeat myself and beat the dead horse. Actually, the horse has already been dragged into the glue factory. I come here to have fun and discuss watches, not to seek online drama.

Once again: the issues that have been raised are valid. Scamming can't be tolerated and we have to stop it before it becomes a habit.

If certain dealers ship watches with crap movements (and advertise them as ETAs) there's no excuse... no matter what their previous reputation is. It's still outright lying and scamming. Keeping the erronous and misleading watch descriptions intact in their site despite all the complaints by the community and ignoring this thread shows total disrespect and arrogance. Apparently they don't need this forum. But guess what... we don't need them, either. This community will survive.

Personally, I'm sick and tired of the 20-page threads of the same whining... let's have some fun here for a change. So... let's do what people voted in the poll (by Edge) and move on for Christ's sake!!!

Did my post bring anything new on the table? Nope.

[FxrAndy]

Jay is Silix from Silixprime and watchsilix, i have had good dealing with him.

[TeeJay]

From my post this morning on RWI:

Not trying to belittle our ability to make change in any way, just trying to figure out how big a piece of the pie we are.

On Joshs site there is a hit counter at the very bottom on the right side. It reads as of right now 3,734,009 since July 05, thats about 4100 hits a day. And that just Josh. If this number is accurate and you add in all the other dealers with sites, and the dealers without sites, it makes us look like a smaller piece. Some one RWG mentioned that the replica industry is WAY bigger then any of us know,

http://www.rwg.cc/members/index.php?showto...3455&st=420

If this is true, the BIG 4 may not give a rats ass about these forums. It would also mean that the dealers are getting links from other places then just our forums.

Is there any way to tell just how big a ball this is?

@manu_72: You have a good point, but since I posted the original number, the hit count has gone up over 500 hits in less than 45min. If they average only 300 hits an hour it would mean around 7200 hits a day. Which would put them on pace for WAY over my intial number. By the way, B9 has a hit counter as well, theirs is at 9,372,539 since April 05. Thats almost 260,400 hits a month, and they have not been with US that long. And would also put them way ahead of josh.

And I was'nt saying our vote wouldnt count, Just that we may not be as big a deal to them as we think.

I know hit counters may not mean anything, Any body here know any solid numbers on the rep business?

All the more reason to for the admin to remove links to their sites and IP Ban them. They might not need our custom, we certainly don't need them. Not with the other dealers and other member resources available. As I've said several times, giving them a second chance due to past reputation, is just giving them a second chance to scam people.

[DrmMaster]

A quick word,..I have been checking here,,,daily. I have not recieved any comunication from any staff member neither here, Nor there..I will continue to check..I have publicly expressed my willingness to discuss a unified plan of action regarding this..If deemed needed...

Thanks Tim

[COOP]

Good to see my homeboy is on it!

Thanks Tim!

[Edge]

With regard how big a portion of their business we are:

First of the counter that was alluded to is a VIEW counter so if I look at a page and it doesn't load properly, I refresh it = 2 views, every time I look at a new page = 1 view, every time I look at an image = 1 view, you see where I am going with this.....?

The number of views a single "Hit" makes can be in the hundreds, easily, just have a look at the Pam section and check out the pics and you would easily rattle up views in no time, so that is irrelevant.

I have stated this before:

Check out where these guys are on google, Alexia, Altavista, Yahoo etc etc.....NOWHERE....so they aren't getting internet sales from outside this forum.

Look at ioffer and you tell me if you see Andy or Josh's watermarked pics anywhere???

NOONE can arbitrarily change their URL without heavy consequences if they do a lot of online business, they can because all they have to do is tell us

I have it on good authority how many wathes these guys are selling every week, and trust me it is a lot less than you think, and almost all sales are coming from the fora, if not ALL.

It's simple, without us they wouldn't survive, they don't have a shop, they don't have any other sales venues, they have a guy who packs and sends out watches for them when WE buy them

Simple, so no more of this crap about having 1000's of hits a day and all that pish, if they did they would be proudly sitting on page one of the a google search page based on traffic stats, they aren't they are on page....who knows what cos I can't count that high.

END OF STORY.

A quick word,..I have been checking here,,,daily. I have not recieved any comunication from any staff member neither here, Nor there..I will continue to check..I have publicly expressed my willingness to discuss a unified plan of action regarding this..If deemed needed...

Thanks Tim

VERY GOOD TO KNOW. I look forward to cooperation and a uniform outcome.

[Craytonic]

Guys, who is Jay? This is the type of dealer I would like to have business with. pm me if thats better. Thanks.

As said above, he is talking about jay of silix-prime.

Amazing guy, he sourced a dial for me I needed just last week.

He and sash are both very nice and helpful.

[olivia]

...

I have it on good authority how many wathes these guys are selling every week, and trust me it is a lot less than you think, and almost all sales are coming from the fora, if not ALL.

...

That is an interesting statement... one of the most interesting I have seen on any of the Forums. What puzzles me is why you would make it, but not put it on the line and say how many. As it stands it is simply a gratuitous assertion.

And , yes ,I agree about Jay...he has always been straight forward with me.

Edited March 30, 2007 by olivia