Shabber Posted June 8, 2007 Report Share Posted June 8, 2007 With the rep prices rising, I find myself shopping on TimeZone and now am wondering what the state of the reps is going to be???? I look at these sweet gen Breitling Steelfish for $1300 and am wondering if it makes much sense to buy the expensive reps. Sure it's fun to buy a Sub and work on it with mods, buit are we just messing around for the sake of messing around. These gens can be sold for what you buy them for. Anyone else having these thoughts? http://forums.timezone.com/index.php?t=tre...38879&rid=0 Maybe the answer is buy reps of extremely expensive watches only and focus on the $200 ones at that. I want to love my hobby, but am concerned it may be drifting... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deltatahoe Posted June 8, 2007 Report Share Posted June 8, 2007 everyone who has the steelfish seems to think it is a great watch; i haven't heard anyone complaining about it in terms of value either.... with an ETA movement, sapphire crystal with quality AR, from what i've heard this watch has a genuine feel to it at 25% of your used price....we're still talking a $1,000 difference between the rep and your used gen... most of the other so called super reps (big bang, bce, costeau divers, etc) are watches that cost $5k+ for gens.... just my thoughts... deltatahoe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Everythingape Posted June 8, 2007 Report Share Posted June 8, 2007 Yup.. I see what you mean.. I am looking for a genuine Breitling, and I can't see myself buying a $300 rep of one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
viper Posted June 8, 2007 Report Share Posted June 8, 2007 (edited) With the rep prices rising, I find myself shopping on TimeZone and now am wondering what the state of the reps is going to be???? I look at these sweet gen Breitling Steelfish for $1300 and am wondering if it makes much sense to buy the expensive reps. Sure it's fun to buy a Sub and work on it with mods, buit are we just messing around for the sake of messing around. These gens can be sold for what you buy them for. Anyone else having these thoughts? http://forums.timezone.com/index.php?t=tre...38879&rid=0 Maybe the answer is buy reps of extremely expensive watches only and focus on the $200 ones at that. I want to love my hobby, but am concerned it may be drifting... In my humble opinion, I view my Steelfish reps as a 'preview', I wear it for a couple of weeks, if it stays on my wrist for more than a week, I might contemplate acquiring the gen. When I visit ADs, I only have a couple of minutes to put on the watch without it being sized, look at the timepiece on my wrist, and decide whether to buy it or not. Owning reps is a way for me to actually make a decision, somehow or other. Although there are some gens that I can never afford, such as the Hublot BB, or the Pam 127 etc. It is still nice to have 'em handy and say "Oh, that's how it feels to wear a $10k watch". I'll buy that when I strike the lottery. Its the look I go for, not in any way trying to fool the general public that I can strap a $10k watch on my wrist. I learned about tinkering by opening my reps, and this forum and its members has been most helpful. Edited June 8, 2007 by viper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAMman Posted June 8, 2007 Report Share Posted June 8, 2007 I agree that the dearer 'super reps' don't make much sense particularly if based on an Asian chrono movement (or worse still a modified A7750) which can't easily be swapped for a Swiss 7750. The Costeau Divers may look good but it seems that quality control is poor and the movement issue remains. However the rep Steelfish is an excellent piece of kit - very accurate with good AR, a simple ETA movement which is the base movement for the gen Breitling and good quality control. Put this on a gen rubber strap and you will have the full 'Breitling experience'. The handwound PAMs and the earlier Omega SMP are similar examples of good quality reps based on a simple ETA movements at a fraction of the cost of the originals. I share the OP's concern for where this hobby is heading and would urge our collectors to give attention to detail on some of the old classic favourites. For example the recent SMP is not a patch on the earlier version and the Panerai dials could easily be sorted to have accurate fonts etc. The more complex and exotic the model which is repped the less believeable it is for the wearer and more likely it is to have QC issues and an unreliable movement. My Steelfish, PAM 002, 000, UPO and Bond SMP are entirely believeable on my arm as I also have a gen black SMP, a gen Moonwatch a couple of gen PAMs etc. Just my 2 cents worth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piratedzeus Posted June 8, 2007 Report Share Posted June 8, 2007 For 300$ you get a rep with almost no flaws, same AR, same Function, same Movement. I will never spend 1300$ on a Steelfish? Why? Because it only uses a ETA and is nothing spectacular. So Spending 300$ is ok to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coolfire Posted June 8, 2007 Report Share Posted June 8, 2007 For 300$ you get a rep with almost no flaws, same AR, same Function, same Movement. I will never spend 1300$ on a Steelfish? Why? Because it only uses a ETA and is nothing spectacular. So Spending 300$ is ok to me. Now, that's what I call, Perspective... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumbie Posted June 8, 2007 Report Share Posted June 8, 2007 For 300$ you get a rep with almost no flaws, same AR, same Function, same Movement. I will never spend 1300$ on a Steelfish? Why? Because it only uses a ETA and is nothing spectacular. So Spending 300$ is ok to me. Totally agreed. I have no problems with reps so long as they have a good movement that can be serviced. When I graduate, my father was going to buy me a gen something because that's what I want as a gift (well either that or, oddly enough, a Tempurpedic mattress). However, I guess I'm of the more is better mentality because I don't see why I should get just one watch when I can buy 3-4 and have them modded and serviced for the price (not into super reps so talking about those that cost in the $250-350 range) and get the commonly-quoted 90% watch for 10% of the money. That's my take on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seank1 Posted June 8, 2007 Report Share Posted June 8, 2007 @pirate I agree with you. I like mine SFSO so much I've contemplated buying the gen. But it so good I can't make myself plunk down 1,600.00 for it. BTW that is a great price on TZ for that watch. He must have to get rid of it. I haven't seen them for under 1,600.00 usd anywhere. Sean K Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raijor Posted June 8, 2007 Report Share Posted June 8, 2007 I believe your point to be prescient - it may very well be a beginning of changes in the Rep world that we are witnessing with significantly higher prices coming. At some point the cost of certain Reps may not make sense as they approach the cost of some desirerable Gens. Time to enjoy this hobby while it is still affordable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris5264 Posted June 8, 2007 Report Share Posted June 8, 2007 I basically agree with Shabber's point....While 300 for the rep sounds like a great deal, I've had too many experiences where something happens after a few weeks and the very nice, "perfect" rep is laying around on my watch table and I'm trying to find a case tube, or some other part somewhere online that I can find to replace it. In particular I've been tempted by the Steelfish rep, if I knew I could own this trouble free for even a year,,,I would order one right now,,,, as in immediately,,,but I would always be waiting for some mysterious thing to go wrong and for me, that takes the pleasure out of it. Lately, I've been doing used gens around 200-1,000,,,all trouble free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cornerstone Posted June 9, 2007 Report Share Posted June 9, 2007 The gen steelfish on TZ even go for as little as $900 in the less popular colours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seank1 Posted June 9, 2007 Report Share Posted June 9, 2007 The gen steelfish on TZ even go for as little as $900 in the less popular colours. What are the less popular colors? I thought it only came in three. If I found a gen steelfish xl in brown for 900.0 I'd take it. Sean K Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cornerstone Posted June 9, 2007 Report Share Posted June 9, 2007 Yeah, the $900 ones were probably just the plain Superocean, not the Steelfish. My mistake. They come in yellow and orange. The blue Steelfishes have gone for $1100. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shabber Posted June 9, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 9, 2007 Well, I am going to stick to reps in the $200 range now with decent movements. I really love my SMP, PO, Navitimer, and Sub. To me being able to sell the used gen for what I pay for it is attractive. I also like the reps as a preview of what gens to buy, but with used gens being so readily available, why waste the $350 on something that might break, can't be worn to AD's, and lose value quickly? I am not trying to be negative about the hobby, just think we need to make sure we don't get too caught up in buying reps that may be overpriced or of poor quality. I think if someone had put this in perspective for me, I may not have bought my Chrono Evo last month. Anyway, on a seperate note I just bought a new Hamilton Jazzmaster that I love - $650. Does this help make my point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P4GTR Posted June 9, 2007 Report Share Posted June 9, 2007 With all the QC issues, I'm not willing to fork off much more then $300 for a rep due to possible dissappointment and loss of my hard earned money. The reps I look for have straight forward movements with few reliability issues. $1300 for a watch would put a serious hurt on me financially. I have enjoyed the reps I've dealt with so far, and I think I will pick up a few more before they become more expensive or harder to find. SFSO will be my next rep. I'm highly anticipating it as a quality piece that will serve me for hopefully a lifetime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pix Posted June 9, 2007 Report Share Posted June 9, 2007 I saw a SFSO Gen in a Duty Free for 1500 EUR, i.e. almost 2000 dollars... "Cheap" gen, but still 10 times what I paid for my Asian rep:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shabber Posted June 10, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 10, 2007 I saw a SFSO Gen in a Duty Free for 1500 EUR, i.e. almost 2000 dollars... "Cheap" gen, but still 10 times what I paid for my Asian rep:) But it's like putting money in the bank. You can sell a used gen for same amount you paid. Also, it is not going to break and become worthless. I say stick with good movements, buy reps for $100-$200 and have fun. It only takes a couple $300 reps to stop working to make you understand. And don't even get me started on people buying the $330 reps and sending them off for service, AR and a gen bracelet. Maybe I am just [censored] because my Chrono Avenger stopped working, but I think there is a point to be at least thought about when the reps are 25% the price of a nice used gen ($328/$1300). At least consider it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cornerstone Posted June 10, 2007 Report Share Posted June 10, 2007 The second hand gens are definitely worth looking at - no question some are excellent deals. But don't kid yourself that gens never break or have QC issues - and when they do, the price to service it is more than the cost of a rep. They're also only good deals because guys who bought them from an AD have had to swallow the $$ depreciation from new. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deltatahoe Posted June 10, 2007 Report Share Posted June 10, 2007 I say stick with good movements, buy reps for $100-$200 and have fun not sure about others, but i've been having a blast with my $300-400 reps of $5-10k watches but I think there is a point to be at least thought about when the reps are 25% the price of a nice used gen ($328/$1300). At least consider it. when the rep has a quality ETA movement and is barely discernable from the real thing, i just can't reasonably make myself spend an extra $1,000 just so i can rest easy knowing its a genuine breitling. in my mind, what is there really to worry about? we get better (and cheaper) aftermarket service from our collectors than lots of ADs. just my $0.02, deltatahoe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dak244 Posted June 10, 2007 Report Share Posted June 10, 2007 not sure about others, but i've been having a blast with my $300-400 reps of $5-10k watches when the rep has a quality ETA movement and is barely discernable from the real thing, i just can't reasonably make myself spend an extra $1,000 just so i can rest easy knowing its a genuine breitling. in my mind, what is there really to worry about? we get better (and cheaper) aftermarket service from our collectors than lots of ADs. just my $0.02, deltatahoe While I hear this point alot, I have to admit, the extra 1,000 is worth it to me to sleep well at night knowing I have a gen, not wonder if someone is thinking its fake while im wearing it, being able to go to an AD and feel good about myself, etc... But some just say I have issues..... Cant wait for my gen Omega SMP Chrono to get here though!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanerich Posted June 10, 2007 Report Share Posted June 10, 2007 There's nothing wrong with Shabber's point . . . I agree with him completely, although mostly because I don't feel that strongly about it. But I will probably still buy five reps instead of one gen as long as there are reps I want. The gens will be waiting for me whenever I want them, I know that for sure. Great reps, on the other hand . . . who knows what things will be like in 5 or 10 years. I make no excuses about how much practical sense it makes, but I like having a bunch of reps. Same reason why I spend time on this board . . . I could be doing lots of more productive things, but I don't. Oh well. Frankly, I'm too old and too often wrong and nevertheless pretty happy with my life to give a crap about justifying everything I do all the time. So you want to say I should be buying reps, I will agree with you. You say I should be buying gens, I will agree with you. You think I should only buy gens over $3000 and reps under $200 or only reps with simple movements and only vintage gens or only reps of Pams and gens of Sinns and Eternas or whatever else the various people on this board seem to feel, that's all fine with me. And if you pay for what I buy, I am more than happy to let you make me practice what you preach. Otherwise, I'm probably still buying reps. That tendency is probably why I browse TZ and post here, after all. Also, I would note lots of members including myself own both kinds, so the gen vs. rep debate exists only in relative terms to us anyway . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pix Posted June 10, 2007 Report Share Posted June 10, 2007 But it's like putting money in the bank. You can sell a used gen for same amount you paid. Also, it is not going to break and become worthless. I say stick with good movements, buy reps for $100-$200 and have fun. It only takes a couple $300 reps to stop working to make you understand. And don't even get me started on people buying the $330 reps and sending them off for service, AR and a gen bracelet. Hi Shabber, I'm actually sticking to reps also because I do not have to care how to resell them when I'm done or with them... (and also, as most here, because I don't have that much cash to collect gens ! ). Broken ? Needs servicing ? Let's keep the spare parts (who knows, if I ever find someone who has interest for that) and buy the same again, after all it's less than 200 bucks for the majority I own. Look at my watches, I'm not the one modding them : I won't spend twice the price of the watch to have it look better (my only concern are straps, always, as those from reps are most often POS). Although I understand those who do it : that's called passion. You won't behave this way with gens, and I feel that's probably one part of the fun missing. As for good movements, you're right, but I have a funny (unusual) example : amongst my 15 watches, the only one that has (minor for now) issues is my Overseas with a Swiss ETA 2836... Maybe I'm just "lucky" ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warburg Posted June 13, 2007 Report Share Posted June 13, 2007 not sure about others, but i've been having a blast with my $300-400 reps of $5-10k watches when the rep has a quality ETA movement and is barely discernable from the real thing, i just can't reasonably make myself spend an extra $1,000 just so i can rest easy knowing its a genuine breitling. in my mind, what is there really to worry about? we get better (and cheaper) aftermarket service from our collectors than lots of ADs. just my $0.02, deltatahoe I agree. I recently bought a BCE rep with the Swiss 7750 movement for over $600. This is admittedly a great deal of money for a rep, but the genuine would have cost in the neighborhood of $4,000, and that is another league for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shabber Posted June 14, 2007 Author Report Share Posted June 14, 2007 I agree. I recently bought a BCE rep with the Swiss 7750 movement for over $600. This is admittedly a great deal of money for a rep, but the genuine would have cost in the neighborhood of $4,000, and that is another league for me. $2,750 Actually for a used gen in great condition. Used BCE on Timezone for $2750 This illustrates my point I guess. It's not for everyone, I just want people to know the reality of prices are. It was an eye opener for me. Not saying abandon reps, just saying know the facts of the economics. Do you know what this BCE I linked to will sell for in 3 years? About $2750! ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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