Reps with serial numbers...

[ubiquitous]

I was thinking about this the other day- There are a good number of reps out there with some pretty convincing features and characteristics, such as realistic serial numbers that actually fall within a genuine serial or milesimation range. While this is a very nice detail for those of us interested in reps, I feel a bit badly for the owners of the actual genuines with that particular number that coincides with the replication. Especially when that particular number is mass produced on the reps; I can see how that would contribute to devaluation of that particular genuine in terms of legitimacy and integrity.

However, I do think the unique milesimation numbers on pieces like the 2893-2 PAM GMTs etc. was a very nice touch. I recall the surprise that I, along with many others had when this model first came out (roughly a yer ago) and caseback numbers were first compared. I have to imagine that such a feature was specifically for us, the enthusiasts on the boards who pay attention to such details. If such is the case, then I think that's proof that we are all actively helping to shape the direction of our hobby, and the manufacturers are taking note of what we want

But, I digress just a bit... Back on topic...

So, my question is this- Does the serial or milesimation stamping on your rep watch matter to you? And, how do you feel about having a realistic number? Important, or no? And, my final hypothetical question... If you[/] were the owner of the genuine that had a serial or prod number that was widely known to be used in reps; would that change the way you thought or felt about your watch?

Just some curiosity from me on the subject. Not trying to stir any pots of ruffle any feathers. Rather... I'm just a bit bored on a Weds morning, and wanted to get some general discussion going...

Best regards,

Randy

[slay]

it would probably not bother me, if my serial was used in reps if i own a genuine with that serial on it, but it would really [censored] me of, if i try to sell it and ppl would tell me its fake because of that :/

and i dont really care about the serial on my reps, its not like i'm hardly trying to convince someone by showing him the serial numbers ("look, here, you see, serial between lugs, my Rolex is genuine!!! in your FACE!").

[Sherrington]

Serial numbers don't really bother me as you have to remove the bracelets (on Rolex's) to see the number anyhow. If someone goes to the trouble to remove the bracelet then they would also remove the back and see FAKE.

I think a number in the ball park would be OK for me although I would be more bothered about numbers which are visual such as bracelet numbers and end link numbers. Or is that just me being picky!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[sssurfer]

So, my question is this-

Does the serial or milesimation stamping on your rep watch matter to you?

Yes.

And, how do you feel about having a realistic number?

Better.

Important, or no?

Important.

And, my final hypothetical question... If you were the owner of the genuine that had a serial or prod number that was widely known to be used in reps; would that change the way you thought or felt about your watch?

Yes. It would make me even more proud about my watch.

HEY FOLKS, THIS IS THE ONE BEING REPPED WORLDWIDE!

[speedy1]

I wear My "vintage" 1680 white sub on a nato strap, so the serial numbers can be seen because of this. Seeing them adds the next level of authenticy to me.

On Rollies, as long as the letter or first two #'s correspond with the year or era the watch is supposed to come from I could care less about the rest of the serial numbers.

No idea on how it works with Pams though.

[Richard Tracy]

Generally, It doesn't really matter to me,.. though on watches like the old model Comex

for instance all stamped with that same large sized number on the back,.. it made me pause.

[frankt]

Yes.

Better.

Important.

Yes. It would make me even more proud about my watch.

HEY FOLKS, THIS IS THE ONE BEING REPPED WORLDWIDE!

WHAT HE SAID!!!....

Besides, hopefully, nobody who hangs around here would ever attempt to pass a rep off as genuine in a larcenous fashion!!

[Polynomial]

Hmm, this is interesting, I cannot recall anybody pointing out to the serial when looking at various ebay scam-candidates; would be a nice observation to say, "hey guys, this wach has a typical rep serial, hence likely a fake"; otherwise no real issue with the serials

[slay]

@Polynomial it has happened a while ago! someone matched his serial on his fiddy to a fiddy on ebay and said its fake maybe it was, we dont know!

[V]

I personally don't really care about serial numbers... Too many other details to think about

[Dirk Pitt]

I'm more worried about the front than the back...

[gran]

I like to see serial numbers and other numbers and symbols on the back of replicas in fact I would like more variation in the numbering.

What I do not like is when a rep say No.0001 or the like on the back....

g.

[asands]

No doubt, everything on the front takes priority for me.

But I see the point in having an authentic serial number, if someone looks who knows anything about reps, a mass produced serial number would be as much of a giveaway as having an incorrect movement.

And slay, you're right I've seen a few reps that have been spotted on the paneristi forum by some of the more common serial numbers, mind you, the times I saw them being spotted was when someone was trying to pass the watch off as a gen on ebay or the like.

Edited April 27, 2006 by asands

[archibald]

It depends. I do feel sorry for the unlucky SOB who has #2052 PAM 111F. And i don't really mind the #117 inside joke which tells buyers of gens, if they're smart, to look extra close when they're offered a watch w/ that serial number while nobody you show your watch to will "get it" unless they collect reps or high end gens too. I think it's not too cool when rep makers do 001, or 888, or 0123, or 666, or the other dumb [censored] they do--they can make it obvious without making it dopey, IMO.

But to make a long story short, I wish the makers would agree on a couple "rep" serial numbers--the only person who could call you out is a fellow collector, and the rep-as-real-selling assholes would have to find their own backs.

[ubiquitous]

Fascinating posts gentlemen. I myself have no real preference on the matter... I don't bother paying much attention to the s/n myself, and as long as it's in the correct general range for the proper year/era that it should be, that's all that matters to me.

While the above is my general opinion on the subject, I do think it's rather neat when the factories decide to do random numbers for the maltriculation.

[TJGladeRaider]

I have a serious problem with it - but I've been a criminal investigator for almost thiry years so what would you expect.

I can justify rep collecting because it is legal (at least here and now) and it fascinates me. However, I am deeply concerned when I see the rep market make the leap from replicating a look, to laying the foundation for fraud.

That serial number belongs to somebody - some one particular individual bought that particular serial numbered piece and it belongs to them.

Manufacturers and seller/distributors don't care because they are committing a crime already - but buyers and collectors better be careful. I think you are begging for an indictment by merely possessing these pieces - screwing around with serial numbers is a completely different thing.

For example, wearing a fake Rolex is legal in the State of Georgia, but don't get caught with a legit watch from some place like Ashford.com that removes the serial numbers. Possession of a watch with altered or removed serial numbers is a crime.

I feel pretty sure that a rep withfake serial numbers could be prosecuted under that statute as well.

Be careful Boys and Girls - if you have a watch with bogus serial numbers, I'd get a different case back and get rid of the one with the numbers. It's a chance I wouldn't take.

I think reputable dealers should be mindful of this and give their Clients the choice.

Bill

[Chronus]

Fascinating posts gentlemen. I myself have no real preference on the matter... I don't bother paying much attention to the s/n myself, and as long as it's in the correct general range for the proper year/era that it should be, that's all that matters to me.

While the above is my general opinion on the subject, I do think it's rather neat when the factories decide to do random numbers for the maltriculation.

Agreed.

Something like 001 or 007 (on a James Bond Omega rep) or 123 etc are obviously dodgy.

A random number is nice as long as no one is trying to pass it off as a genuine sale. And that's the problem.

[shimside11]

I have to agree w/ tjgladeraider.

Getting all bothered about .5mm on cgs or whether the crystal is sapphire, or exact subdial placement is all good fun, and makes this pursuit all the more exciting, but when you get into counterfeiting serial numbers, it goes from novel to sinister.

There is only one reason a manufacturer would put a real serial number on a piece. I think that placing a coloured gear in a rep rolex movement is also very suspect. (I've seen some of those lately). The intent for most of us here is to get as accurate as possible, but it is not the intent to resell as genuine.

Nobody will ever call anyone out on a watch because of a serial number...unless they are considering buying it for a gen price, and inspecting it for authenticity.

There is such a fine line that separates the various forms of larceny. Steal the stock in trade of a company that has spent years building a brand identity, but don't scam some poor greedy schmuck that thinks he's getting an unreal deal on a Rolex day-date or red sub. There are so many arguments as to why one degree of theft is almost ethical and another is totally unacceptable.

Is it OK to counterfeit a paper note for purely artistic reasons (to the point that no one could ever tell) as long as you don't try to pass it? How about copying the old masters to learn the craft of painting?

Everyone has their own ethic. Makes for interesting discussion.