lanikai Posted August 25, 2007 Report Share Posted August 25, 2007 THIS is your choice to make for yourself... we all need to make the same decisions for ourselves ... your right as a consumer and also mine.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rxus Posted August 25, 2007 Report Share Posted August 25, 2007 Sometimes people have to learn things the hard way. I'm glad I found RWG before making a mistake with a scam site. But others have ahd to make that mistake. Luckily for us the internet is possibly the last place on this earth were you truthfully have the right to do as you please. Lets keep it that way. I applaud those fighting the rising prices, but we are insignificant in this grey market hobby of ours, let us enjoy what we can from whom ever it is we get our thrills. Instead of all these heated debates, why not spend the time on more constructive input..maybe some reviews, stories, anything is better than this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwoTone Posted August 25, 2007 Report Share Posted August 25, 2007 Instead of all these heated debates, why not spend the time on more constructive input..maybe some reviews, stories, anything is better than this. Agreed... http://www.rwg.cc/members/index.php?showtopic=46319&hl= TT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victoria Posted August 25, 2007 Report Share Posted August 25, 2007 and yes .. point taken about my 300 post versus more ... i understand how you feel... not speaking for Madame V. I'm sure she meant no one harm .... emotions were high at the time.... i dunno maybe better to vent here than in traffic Yes? Lanikai, don't worry about it. Things won't change with people who have a personality conflict with another member. No matter what that object of irritation says, they will find it a way to turn things around, and get you, because it's not about what you say, it's who you are that gets to them. I've found that people with big personalities have to put up with this, but I won't entertain conversations about myself on this or any other forum. It brings down the tone of the entire place, and leaves people numb. If you wish this forum well, don't do it. If you continue, just be aware that I will come out smelling like roses, because my first and last instinct is to ignore this behaviour by taking the High Road, whereas that person comes out looking like an obsessive schmuck. Now, back to the cartel talk...UHH. NOT! and you must admit Miss V's vocabulary is intense so if she were to pay me a compliment ... using a million $ word I may get offended ...LOL ... The only thing I'd call you is "Muscles", and I believe they're charging a buck forty for that word these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victoria Posted August 25, 2007 Report Share Posted August 25, 2007 Agreed... http://www.rwg.cc/members/index.php?showtopic=46319&hl= TT OMG! WTF! CIA! ...sorry, I ran out of catchy 3-letter acronyms. P.S.: EWWWWWWW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Febus Posted August 25, 2007 Report Share Posted August 25, 2007 So they lied a bit? That's the problem for me. As I said on the other thread I've had exceptional service from Josh and never been lied to myself. However I can't accept the fact such bare faced lies have been told to other members of this community and as a result I'm voting with my business as should everyone else according to their point of view. For me this business is based on trust and I don't have any in the 'cartel' dealers. Game over. I'd rather buy secondhand genuines if this is the way the rep game pans out. Thankfully there are other people out there who can feed my rep habit without telling me lies........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllergyDoc Posted August 25, 2007 Report Share Posted August 25, 2007 If Trustytime could get quality issues straight and reduce their prices back where they should be, I might buy from him again. Till then, I'm shopping elsewhere. Well put. We express our opinions with our wallets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LastDiplomat Posted August 25, 2007 Report Share Posted August 25, 2007 I don't understand why many of those who disagree with TeeJay feel he should stop discussing what he feels are poor business practices from several dealers. At least he's willing to collect/share important information about these sellers that first-time buyers should be aware of. For example, if you were going to take out a loan with a bank for the first time and several people began telling you how poorly the bank handled their loans, would you still want to get a loan from that particular bank? Further, would you be grateful that those people told you about their problems or would you insist they might their own business and let you do what you like? Personally, I think TeeJay is looking out for the community and the points he raises can only help strengthen it. These kinds of discussions help improve business practices and weed out dealers who are less than honest with customers. Why settle for what we have now when we can have better? If we stay quiet about it then things will never change and never improve; but if we raise a little ruckus, dealers will have to respond or fear losing their customer base. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sam_tgg Posted August 25, 2007 Report Share Posted August 25, 2007 First of all, I would like to know where do you want to go: bann Joshua and Andrew (why just these two of the four "cartel"?)?. If it is what you whant and you are asking I think it is very difficult to justify the bann of two collectors that has at least a 90% of pleased buyers. Second. In my office I have three collegues that has buyed from Andrew (I give the link). So I think this polit of "no buying from.... and the prices will go down", it is not realistic at all. We are not a revolucionary punch: we are some guys triying to buy counterfits of luxus watches. Third, and conected with two. We can try to "controll" a bit the information that goes though the forums, but, even if they are working like a cartel, they are not selling water in Sudan. They are selling luxus watches. If you do not want to buy, you do not need to buy. I (personally) in the forums looking for: Info and Know-How - People like By-Thor, The Zigmeister or Pugwash, for example, give this info Friends & people with the same hobby like me - Most of people here But I do not think the forums is to controll of the price. In my idea, the forums work is to give me the information about the quality of the watch, and I decide if it is good or not to pay the money. My two cents! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted August 25, 2007 Report Share Posted August 25, 2007 TeeJay, First of all - respect due for having some b*lls and standing up and shouting for what you believe in ...I mean that sincerely. I think your personal price increase caveat does not factor in the marketing phenonmenon known as "premium postitioning" I love vodka...Grey Goose is a personal favourite but at Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FxrAndy Posted August 25, 2007 Report Share Posted August 25, 2007 It is also an open forum for us to pass information on our dealing with collectors, the same as if this was a loan or mortgage forum (i know analogy was used before) and if one firm was not straight with is advertisements or dealing you would be happy to receive that information that may save you a lot of heartache and money years down the line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FxrAndy Posted August 25, 2007 Report Share Posted August 25, 2007 but if we raise a little ruckus, dealers will have to respond or fear losing their customer base. The other two threads were about as much rucus as you could cause on the internet and the dealers just kept quiet in the main and dug in, the storm blew over, back to normal, ales klar, ok lets put up the postage next then, we can ride that one out no problem! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted August 25, 2007 Report Share Posted August 25, 2007 The other two threads were about as much rucus as you could cause on the internet and the dealers just kept quiet in the main and dug in, the storm blew over, back to normal, ales klar, ok lets put up the postage next then, we can ride that one out no problem! Exactly. They did nothing whatsoever to actually adress the concerns or change their behaviours, they just waited till people stopped discussing it, which personally, I find intollerable, and can't understand why Admin indeed continues to tollerate it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victoria Posted August 25, 2007 Report Share Posted August 25, 2007 Just my own personal opinion, people are free to take it or leave it as they wish, but, I personally feel, that if someone cannot be trusted to tell the 100% truth, 100% of the time, then they are liars, and should be acknowledged and treated as such. But see, this is a kind of attitude that is either seen as noble, or crankish in life. I'm not saying you are either, TeeJay. I value your opinion, and have seen the person you are in the few months I have been on. That's not it, at all. This whole thread, however, is about what we as individuals can tolerate from collectors, trusted or not. We make compromises with them about their fudges, their mistakes, their claims. E.g.: If they drop-ship or not, which one collector ASSURES me he doesn't, but do I believe him? I don't know. I would like to though. And that's it right there. I WANT to believe him because he's been an exceptional merchant to me, trusting me as a client. The ball bounces both ways, you know. How many times, never mentioned by people here out of embarrassment maybe because they didn't buy the tracking, did a watch we send them not arrive in their destination? The collectors ate that cost. And you don't hear them whining about scammer-buyers, as I am sure they get ALL the time. No, they stay silent, perhaps out of simply not having time to post anymore, or it just not looking professional to out these people on boards, whereas WE have a medium like rep forums to complain about them all the time. Boy do we, too. Just look at what I have said about Paul, whereas he's never once presented his side of the story (there are ALWAYS two sides of the story, as we recently rediscovered, right?). So, there it is. I think the thread is dying a death -- famous last words! -- but the crux of the matter is that either you are comfortable dealing with increased profit-margins by businessmen, and can tolerate a few squiggles of truths now and again, so long as the collectors are reputable in general, and offer good customer service. Doesn't mean you can't out them, and in fact, should when they are wrong, TeeJay. But just know that it's almost a losing battle because they feed us our addictions... You're like the Don Quixote of the rep world, my darling. It must not be pleasant to be in that position, how ever noble, but I respect your efforts and convictions nonetheless, without sharing them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deepsea Posted August 25, 2007 Report Share Posted August 25, 2007 (edited) I'm a fellow customer of Josh and will continue buying from him... anyway; 1. who else give fast/polite/meaningful replies to your emails? 2. who else accept fast/secure cc payment? 3. who else ships fast? If you offer a guy who does the above. I'm ready to buy from there also... Prices... OK they are a little higher but I don't mind... US Dollar is at its weakest nowadays... I'm also selling products to USA (nothing about watches, I have tailorship company, we export raw and pre-worked fabrics to abroad), I have no choice to raise my prices in USD range... no option. My production cost remains same, but my income gets lower since it is USD... so I have no choice to raise my prices even that makes US dollar payers unhappy... So I don't blame any seller who is raising their prices in US dollar fund type... Lie about BR? I don't care, that's the problem of who bought those BR's without seeing the photo of the movement... I didn't... I never buy a watch without seeing the photo of the movement. even from my father... And on the other hand I've bought several times from Josh, some of the deals went sour. but Josh didn't down me even a single time, he accepted any product that is with problems, refunded or compansated... So I'm happy with his service... my .02 Edited August 25, 2007 by deepsea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sssurfer Posted August 25, 2007 Report Share Posted August 25, 2007 A specifying about a Little White Lie: http://www.rwg.cc/members/index.php?showto...st&p=306245 I plaud to collectors who don't have to resort to LWL (but they don't usually have a website too, so it's really much about a collectors' thing). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pabra Posted August 25, 2007 Report Share Posted August 25, 2007 Lie about BR? I don't care, that's the problem of who bought those BR's without seeing the photo of the movement... I didn't... I never buy a watch without seeing the photo of the movement. even from my father... my .02 I love this part of the post. It truly is the essence of the available divisions. Thank You! Shame on those who merely trust(ed). What the hell did they think with. Where the hell did they get the idea from that these people were trustworthy? Shame I say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pix Posted August 25, 2007 Report Share Posted August 25, 2007 (...) If you back up your statements with a source, or some kind of reference, people would begin to meet you half-way, TeeJay. Until then, it's speculation, not to say something else. Hi Mademoiselle V It seems that there is no source (although Pug's post are a clear source for me) but a consensus which was more or less admitted some time ago (at least that's what I understood), probably before you joined the boards, I can't remember when exactly, sorry (march ?). The fact that only 4 dealers are able to source some specific reps and the fact that some other dealers confirm in their correspondance that they do not have access to this ot that model (SFSO as far as I'm concerned, I mean, before everyone carried it) are not evidences of a cartel, but a strong "beam of doubts" that the Fantastic 4 have some very close connection. Their very same pricing too... I am not a paranoid, but I don't want to believe there's no price fixing. I really started wondering and reconsidering my faith in Andrew (my first and repeated for monthes dealer) when I saw Ruby and her SFSO at 135 dollars shipped and the relative strap for 15 dollars, against 198 + 45 from the *cough* Cartel For sure, there are scammers out there and much higher prices (have a look on cqout or iOffer), but who said "the one-eyed is a king in the blind people's Kingdom"... I want to see with my two eyes, as long as possible (sorry for the bad translation, I trust it reflects my opinion however) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lanikai Posted August 25, 2007 Report Share Posted August 25, 2007 The Cartel as everyone speaks of .... with direct "ties" to the makers or if you want,..... factories .... are expected to move a certain amount of product .. they seem to take their marching orders at times from the powers that be (the makers?) (and since this is an illegal business what factions are behind the factories .. are the dealers sworn to secrecy?)... do we know who is behind the "factories" where the real capital needs to be invested? do the dealers invest their own capital into this ... is it venture capital that started this? they can advise the makers on what will sell ... and in turn the makers would say ...OK, I want 1000 units of this watch sold or commited to by the dealers...my fantasy watch .. a Ti 199 ... but I am sure it is not made because of the small amount of units it would sell ... (that's just my opinion) The huge auto makers fix their prices .. don't they? ... you ever see a dealership that was 100% honest?.. or that did not overcharge...? whenever I buy a "rep" i have a mind set that I will have to have it modded for it to be 99% accurate .. or close to that number...ie. crown, date wheel, lume colour and glow,.. etc. etc. ... not just what the horologist can do with the lume.. so i am really nicely surprise to see some watches look the way they do out of the box .... i figure i have to spend about the same as i did for the watch with a quality modder .. or a Horologist .. Ziggy falls into this catalog for me.... Now I maybe need to ammend my statement that I am alway's 100% happy with the watches i receive ... no i am not alway's .... but I am realizing which makers are better than others ..and i don't fault the dealers for my unhappiness with the watches .... these are Replicas.. iknow and as i have stated to both dealers in question.... I am not buying a Rep. ... I am buying a watch .. for these prices .. so i do not expect parts to fall off when i receive it. ..... that's my expectations to them.. Yes, Joshua has said they are not perfect .. mistakes are made ... he tries his best to correct mine.... it is a give and take .. In the future .. may i suggest the members creating a fact finding team... 1. a member who is disatisfied with his or her purchase(not because of estetics), faulty movt.no lug holes etc. and has exhausted every avenue of communication with the dealer .. contact this commitee. 2. If the committee deems that the member has a legitimate grip .... this cannot be after the fact.. ie. i threw the watch away.. cause i was pi___ I sold it for XXX... and most important.. proof of purchase from the dealer in question ...... 3.the committee would then contact the dealer ... the rest is self explanitory.. If the members of the RWG are here to protect scams .. rip offs etc. then let's do something constructive about it ... trying to convince everyone not to buy or to buy from someone else ... well that's sort of conflict of interest .... etc. TeeJay.... I commend you on your presentation of your posts .... you have presented it in an educated way .. and kept control .. thank you ... this topic is emotion driven and many times can get out of hand .. we're all here for the same thing......BUYING and finding way's to share our experiences.... who can we do this with except each other ... we are like the ... excuse my terminology ... bastard children getting together..when we cannot hang with the Genuine crowd... we could but may not feel like sharing what we do here... then we cannot be ourselves..because I do not buy REPS to try and FOOL anyone ... but we have all found a place that we can talk freely about them and get help improving them. So ... I think a group of verteran members would do well with this...... we have sssurfer Tech..... Kruzer= veteran tech expert ... kinda everything.... Teejay .... Pug ..... ET ALL .... the list goes on and on... Just my 1 cent Lanikai Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Febus Posted August 25, 2007 Report Share Posted August 25, 2007 If any of the 'cartel' supporters want their watches waterproofing or servicing I can offer the exact same service at half the price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pabra Posted August 25, 2007 Report Share Posted August 25, 2007 If any of the 'cartel' supporters want their watches waterproofing or servicing I can offer the exact same service at half the price. Nonsense, I can offer it at 28% more than your price! I use the most secure checkout system there is (ps. grimmy's been swiss trained) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victoria Posted August 25, 2007 Report Share Posted August 25, 2007 TeeJay.... I commend you on your presentation of your posts .... you have presented it in an educated way .. and kept control .. thank you ... This cannot be stated enough. TeeJay is a man of passion about this topic, but didn't, that I saw or interpreted, ONCE stoop to insulting those he disagreed with. And may I say, it is he alone that has had to defend his position, given the the title header. Sure, others are in agreement and also expressed similar opinions about LWL (to use SSsurfer's acronym). But it is TeeJay who is front and centre in this debate, and I'd say his demeanour remains the same -- on point. Just my 1 cent Keep the change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pabra Posted August 25, 2007 Report Share Posted August 25, 2007 The market principals behind cartels are no different than those behind a boycott. Both seek to force favourable market conditions for one or more parties So, IMHO, certain self-righteous users should step down from their horse. Lets get back to what this board is for. I remember when i first joined, I was given the following advice: -It is easy to get screwed over when buying a rep. -Read as much as you can. -Form your own opinions. -Pick your dealer. -Then pick your watch. -Enjoy. ...by the way[, we] should all be in contempt of each other. I mean we actually try to control a market here. We do! We only let a few chosen in. On certain grounds; we have rules for dealers. ... I don't like horses. At all. They scare the [censored] out of me. The only thing with hoofs that's allowed close to me is my mother in law. And I don't mind people buying from A/J. -I do however want them to know that they can be f*cked over. Needless to say, they will also find out that things can turn out good if they buy from them. -People read as much as they could. Or some perhaps didn't care to read. Because there was nothing to be found about a crappy movement represented as something else. And there was trust involved (this is my biggest concern). About a movement labeled as 2892 when it has about as much to do with that movement as, well, let's leave it at that. Technicians that most likely don't exist, or let's suppose they do, how are the dealers sure they perform their part? -Indeed, form your own opinions, but they are formed from other people who have formed their opinions. Which in turn are formed by different schools, professions etc. -Pick your dealer. -Then pick your watch. -Enjoy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted August 25, 2007 Report Share Posted August 25, 2007 (edited) But see, this is a kind of attitude that is either seen as noble, or crankish in life. I'm not saying you are either, TeeJay. I value your opinion, and have seen the person you are in the few months I have been on. That's not it, at all. This whole thread, however, is about what we as individuals can tolerate from collectors, trusted or not. We make compromises with them about their fudges, their mistakes, their claims. E.g.: If they drop-ship or not, which one collector ASSURES me he doesn't, but do I believe him? I don't know. I would like to though. And that's it right there. I WANT to believe him because he's been an exceptional merchant to me, trusting me as a client. The ball bounces both ways, you know. How many times, never mentioned by people here out of embarrassment maybe because they didn't buy the tracking, did a watch we send them not arrive in their destination? The collectors ate that cost. And you don't hear them whining about scammer-buyers, as I am sure they get ALL the time. No, they stay silent, perhaps out of simply not having time to post anymore, or it just not looking professional to out these people on boards, whereas WE have a medium like rep forums to complain about them all the time. Boy do we, too. Just look at what I have said about Paul, whereas he's never once presented his side of the story (there are ALWAYS two sides of the story, as we recently rediscovered, right?). So, there it is. I think the thread is dying a death -- famous last words! -- but the crux of the matter is that either you are comfortable dealing with increased profit-margins by businessmen, and can tolerate a few squiggles of truths now and again, so long as the collectors are reputable in general, and offer good customer service. Doesn't mean you can't out them, and in fact, should when they are wrong, TeeJay. But just know that it's almost a losing battle because they feed us our addictions... You're like the Don Quixote of the rep world, my darling. It must not be pleasant to be in that position, how ever noble, but I respect your efforts and convictions nonetheless, without sharing them. Hi V, I totally appreciate what you're saying. As 'experienced watch buyers' (I'm not saying we know everything about everything, but, we do know enough not to 'get our pants pulled down' over the price') we have enough product knowledge to make an informed choice, and gauge the risk on what we buy. For example, the Vintage Rolex I ordered from Silix a month back. I am by no means happy with the bezel which is fitted as standard on all the models, with regards to the specific model I've bought, but, I know enough that I know where I can get an accurate replacement bezel and know enough about watch maintenance to install it myself, so I was happy to take the risk buying it. I would not though, recommend it as a purchase for someone who wants a 6200, has never dismantled a watch, and has never modded a watch. My 'outing' of the Cartel is not aimed at members who know what's what, but for the n00bs who join because they want a 'f/\ke R0lex' to impress their friends, type up "Who has the best Submariner?" then contribute nothing further to the forum. These are the people who are going to think "Hmmm, lots of recommendations for A&J, I'll buy from them!" when infact, they are the people most likely (as proven with Joshua's conduct) to get sent a less than perfect product, because they are viewed as a soft target, and easy money. Those are the ones who need to see these less than positive reviews (like Predfans) before they make their decisions to buy. Those are the people who the 'squiggles in the truth' affect, and they are the ones who need most protecting from those practices. I'm a fellow customer of Josh and will continue buying from him... anyway; 1. who else give fast/polite/meaningful replies to your emails? The dealer I use does that... 2. who else accept fast/secure cc payment? The dealer I use does that too... 3. who else ships fast? Holy cr/\p, the dealer I use does that as well!!!1 Sure, I know Americans like their 'next day delivery services' and what not, but seriously, that is like taking a cr/\p and having someone wipe your ass for you... Seven days from purchase to receipt is plenty fast enough for me. Prices... OK they are a little higher but I don't mind... US Dollar is at its weakest nowadays... I'm also selling products to USA (nothing about watches, I have tailorship company, we export raw and pre-worked fabrics to abroad), I have no choice to raise my prices in USD range... no option. My production cost remains same, but my income gets lower since it is USD... so I have no choice to raise my prices even that makes US dollar payers unhappy... So I don't blame any seller who is raising their prices in US dollar fund type... Inflation of prices to compensate for fluctuations in the dollar, that's cool, but artificially inflating the prices above identical product sold by other dealers, where's the justification for that, other than claiming a profit? To give an example in your line of business, I recently had a custom-tailored replica made of the jacket Tom Cruise wore in Minority Report. The same jacket is available frmo some companies (sold as a 'sci-fi replicas') for nearly three times what my tailor charged me for making it from scratch... I've always held the belief with product that "it costs what it costs", but, I temper that with the logic that there must be reasonable justification for said cost other than just pure profit/brand name. Lie about BR? I don't care, that's the problem of who bought those BR's without seeing the photo of the movement... I didn't... I never buy a watch without seeing the photo of the movement. even from my father...This is the pooint being made, including by former 'happy customers'. Just because YOU don't care about their lies, don't expect OTHERS to tollerate them... This about thinking about everyone as a community, not just saying "I got good service, so, screw you guys, I'm going home..." That's the kind of attitude that only helps buyer and seller, but does nothing for the community we all belong to. All the time people are prepared to accept those lies, they [the Cartel] have no reason to change their behaviour. I love this part of the post. It truly is the essence of the available divisions. Thank You! Shame on those who merely trust(ed). What the hell did they think with. Where the hell did they get the idea from that these people were trustworthy? Shame I say. Probably something to do with Andrew's forum handle being 'Trusty Watch Guy', and his site being Trusty Time... Shame on anyone for taking him at his word? Shame on him for giving people the impression that they should... The Cartel as everyone speaks of .... with direct "ties" to the makers or if you want,..... factories .... are expected to move a certain amount of product .. Sorry, but I should care about that why? It's like any job, you have quotas/requirements, and you fullfill them and do the job anyway. You certainly don't complain about those expectations to a customer to make them feel sorry for you and close a sale... If some telemarketer told you they had to meet X amount of sales a day, would you seriously care enough to buy their product, or, would you just tell them to jog on? Let's for one second assume you feel sorry for them and buy their product. How many people will they then use that line on just so they can fill their job quota plus bonusses, even when that specific sale will have no relevence on their job security? This is the thing with liars. If someone lies at all, you can't trust them to tell the truth about anything. All you can do, is trust them to act in accordance with their character and deal with them accordingly. In the future .. may i suggest the members creating a fact finding team... 1. a member who is disatisfied with his or her purchase(not because of estetics), faulty movt.no lug holes etc. and has exhausted every avenue of communication with the dealer .. contact this commitee. 2. If the committee deems that the member has a legitimate grip .... this cannot be after the fact.. ie. i threw the watch away.. cause i was pi___ I sold it for XXX... and most important.. proof of purchase from the dealer in question ...... 3.the committee would then contact the dealer ... the rest is self explanitory.. That is an absolutely fantastic idea. I for one, would support such an idea in every way. TeeJay.... I commend you on your presentation of your posts .... you have presented it in an educated way .. and kept control .. thank you No problem, I strive to be as objective and impersonal in my views on this issue as possible, after all, I have not personally bought anything fromA&J, but, I have been someone Joshua tried to lie to and manipulate over an extremely trivial matter, so, although I'm not too fussed about that issue, for me, it reinforced a pattern of behaviour which, for the reason I pointed out to V above, good conscience for what could happen to 'ultra n00bs' prevents me from keeping silent and leaving the issue solely to those who have bought product from them. This cannot be stated enough. TeeJay is a man of passion about this topic, but didn't, that I saw or interpreted, ONCE stoop to insulting those he disagreed with. And may I say, it is he alone that has had to defend his position, given the the title header. Sure, others are in agreement and also expressed similar opinions about LWL (to use SSsurfer's acronym). But it is TeeJay who is front and centre in this debate, and I'd say his demeanour remains the same -- on point. Thanks, V. I certainly try not to resort to insulting others, even if I might throw in the odd colorfull expression or humorious jpg along the way Edited August 25, 2007 by TeeJay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay Posted August 25, 2007 Report Share Posted August 25, 2007 Shamelessly and completely OT. You know what's driving me nuts right now? I'm watching a movie on TV with the old format. Fine, looks not great on my plasma. Then it cuts to commercials and the commercials are recorded in 1080P. So the ads are stunning but the actual program is unimpressive. I can't wait until 1080P becomes standard. Dude, that's not 'unimpressive' (for not being as good as the new material) that's vintage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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