freddy333 Posted November 8, 2007 Report Share Posted November 8, 2007 Manual-wind Asian 7760 movement with asymmetrical pushers and a fully-functional tri-compax chronograph. Case dimensions similar to DW & gen Daytona 62xx series, so it will accept many gen parts. Note that the watch in the picture has been fitted with a DW caseback (which is shallower (similar to the gen 62xx caseback) than the caseback that would come with the watch) & a gen Triplock crown/tube, but these parts would NOT come standard on the rep watch you purchase - I installed them just to demonstrate that the case will accept some gen parts - you would need to purchase/install these yourself or have your modder perform the work for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
llsteve80 Posted November 8, 2007 Report Share Posted November 8, 2007 800 for a rep is usually high, but that is one of the Holy Grails of watches, so I might, Under certain circumstances. It would depend on the accuracy compared to the gen, and how much it would save in comparison to building one. If you think about it, $800 could a fair price for this particular model, as the cases from NTDtrading cost $1150, then a aftermarket dial about $100, more for a gen refinish and around a thousand for a NOS gen dial. Then the movement will probably run around 400 for a Val 72, then another $100 or so for a quality band and rep buckle. That adds up to at least $1750. Add an engraved bridge for the movement for $200 and now you're into some decent used gen prices. Now I might lose a few people here, but I'm responding to 2 threads at the same time: When I was quoting those prices before, I was stating that for $800 I would want a watch that was assembled, not just a case kit that included only a case, bezel, crystal, and caseback. I am not familiar with the specifics of the DW kit, so I don't know if the V72 series is compatable with that case or not. The die hards insist on a V72 for a vintage daytona rep, but I'm not one of them. Overall, and I apoligize for typing and thinking at the same time, I probably could have saved you some reading time if I did the former 1st, but thats not what I was saying back there. For me, $800 is too much to spend on 1 aftermarket part, so they better throw in a dial, hands, band and clasp and movement for that price. Then I would have a watch. For $800 I'd think about it. With a V72 I'd ask how fast I could get it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest avitt Posted November 8, 2007 Report Share Posted November 8, 2007 @llsteve80, I think the going price for a VJ72 movement alone is now over $1000, and will continue to rise. I don't know if this will change your analysis... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
llsteve80 Posted November 8, 2007 Report Share Posted November 8, 2007 @llsteve80, I think the going price for a VJ72 movement alone is now over $1000, and will continue to rise. I don't know if this will change your analysis... It changes it and makes me feel retarded. But I'm used to that. I thought they were 500? In that case, for 800, I'd pick it up before the person changed their mind. When I get a chance I'll have to look at my bookmarks and ebay watched items page and see what I was really thinking about. That brings a V72 powered rep with ntd trading case at least into the upper 2,000's, maybe more. Now I'm thinking that I would pay 800 for Freddy's watch, he went through alot of trouble on it and its is truly and handcrafted watch, so the other ones, if exactly like his would be the same deal, I just wish I could spend 800 on one right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmg Posted November 8, 2007 Report Share Posted November 8, 2007 Not a bad price, I would. It's certainly less than a DW with VJ72, come to think of it that's less than my all I've dropped into my DW with a VJ23 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted November 8, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 8, 2007 The watches at the ends are V72-powered DWs. The watch in the middle is the watch under consideration -- essentially a DW, but powered by an Asian 7760 (manual-wind version of the Asian 7750 chronograph movement) instead of a Valjoux 72. For reference, DW recently sold a pair of fully-assembled V72-powered watches for a bit less than $2k each (if your membership level permits access, you can still find the post in the Supporter For Sale section). So my question is -- Is there a market for a less expensive DW-style Daytona rep? The Daytona equivalent to an MBW SeaDweller - a very accurate rep that will accept many gen parts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
llsteve80 Posted November 8, 2007 Report Share Posted November 8, 2007 so who is DW? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephane Posted November 8, 2007 Report Share Posted November 8, 2007 So my question is -- Is there is a market for a less expensive DW-style Daytona rep? The Daytona equivalent to an MBW SeaDweller - a very accurate rep that will accept many gen parts. There is a market I think. I'm no Daytona fan but I really want a vintage badly. I wouldn't go for a 2K though. And of course I would want a reliable mvt (I think Asian 77xx are) and some gen parts if necessary. So, if your question is : 800$ for a already modded (partialy or completely) 62xx, would you buy it ? My answer is YES. Cheers Stephane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alt.watch.obsessive Posted November 8, 2007 Report Share Posted November 8, 2007 I think there would be a market. Is the subdial spacing correct? I assume the "jog" for the assymetric pusher is in the case somehow? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tribal Posted November 8, 2007 Report Share Posted November 8, 2007 Yepp, Freddy, I think there is a market for a DW Vintage daytona with full working Chronos and tricompax function.. Is it a 7760 or a 7750 with killed automatic winding ? I think 800$ is not a bad price for this when there are some gen parts on the watch... It's a hancrafted time peace with a lot of work on it,so the prictag is it worth.... Only my opinion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alligoat Posted November 8, 2007 Report Share Posted November 8, 2007 I think there is a market at $800, but I'd rather see it at $600, because w/ an asian 7760, you're still ultimately looking at having to service it at some point and that's another couple hundred dollars (which will probably be going up soon since the US dollar is getting so beat up). Another consideration is changing out the crown and tube to gen since it's manual wind- how long would a rep crown and tube hold up to that kind of constant use? Nevertheless, it's an interesting development. I also noted that Josh has come out with a 37mm 6263 w/ a Lemania whatever movement and the hand on the 12 hour subdial fixed. I would assume it has symmetrical pushers, but at least the case size is closer to original. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
section8 Posted November 8, 2007 Report Share Posted November 8, 2007 Nope. I like the watch but not that much. I'd rather put that money towards my next gen purchase. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted November 8, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 8, 2007 Yepp, Freddy, I think there is a market for a DW Vintage daytona with full working Chronos and tricompax function.. Is it a 7760 or a 7750 with killed automatic winding ? I think 800$ is not a bad price for this when there are some gen parts on the watch... It's a hancrafted time peace with a lot of work on it,so the prictag is it worth.... Only my opinion The $800 price tag would include an Asian 7760 (manual-wind version of the ubiquitous and reliable (when properly serviced) 7750). Such a watch would be essentially a factory-assembled DW-style Daytona using similar quality parts, but powered by the Asian 7760 instead of the Valjoux. That is, a very accurate rep (containing no gen Rolex parts) that is functionally the same as the Valjoux-powered DW or gen (a tri-compax chronograph with all working subdials), but which can be fitted with many gen parts (crown, tube, pushers, etc.). Again, it would look similar to this (The watch in the picture has been fitted with a gen Triplock crown/tube, which is slightly narrower than the rep Triplock crown that the watch would normally come with from the factory) It seems to me that for ever one of us who has the time, money & skills to gather the parts to construct a home-brewed V72 DW, there are probably 100 times as many people who would be willing to pay a premium for a functionally similar & already assembled watch. But I would like to find out if I am right about the number of potential (real) buyers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youpmelone Posted November 8, 2007 Report Share Posted November 8, 2007 Serviced, by someone good. No huge flaws, accepting all gen parts and i am in Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted November 8, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 8, 2007 I think there is a market at $800, but I'd rather see it at $600, because w/ an asian 7760, you're still ultimately looking at having to service it at some point and that's another couple hundred dollars (which will probably be going up soon since the US dollar is getting so beat up). Another consideration is changing out the crown and tube to gen since it's manual wind- how long would a rep crown and tube hold up to that kind of constant use? Nevertheless, it's an interesting development. I would love to see a DW-quality 7760-powered Daytona for $600, or even $500, but I think the higher cost of the 7760 would make it unprofitable for the seller. And while I do think $800 is a stretch, when you consider that the only other game in town (DW) starts at about $2,000 (if you are lucky enough to catch him when he has an assembled watch for sale.....and I have only seen him sell 2 of those) and would differ only in the type of movement that lurks inside a closed case, $800 starts to look like a bargain to me. I just want to know if there are enough other people who feel the same. I also noted that Josh has come out with a 37mm 6263 w/ a Lemania whatever movement and the hand on the 12 hour subdial fixed. I would assume it has symmetrical pushers, but at least the case size is closer to original. Josh's Lemania/Venus-powered Daytona has symmetrical pushers. I believe it is the same watch that I got several years ago These are outstanding watches and other than the usual problems with the rep crown tubes stripping, it has been an excellent watch. Trouble is that it is a bi-compax movement (with the bottom subdial 'frozen' by me), the lug width is larger at 20mm (and the rest of the case dimensions are larger as well) & the pusher arrangement is wrong (symmetrical), which easily marks it as a rep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted November 8, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 8, 2007 Serviced, by someone good. No huge flaws, accepting all gen parts and i am in Gen on left, rep on right Certainly, not an exact match (no rep ever is), but do you see any 'huge' flaws? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest avitt Posted November 8, 2007 Report Share Posted November 8, 2007 Once the rotor is removed, and a thinner caseback is installed, the only issue that I see with this watch is the subdial spacing. It's not that significant, but it does mean that your choice of dials is limited - you can't just use aftermarket VJ72 dial that you find on eBay, for instance. When these first came on the scene a few years ago (the ExtraExtra, or EE, version, before DW) they were limited in quantity, and sold for over $1000...It was quite the scandal at the time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dieselpower Posted November 8, 2007 Report Share Posted November 8, 2007 The gen on the left is not zeroing properly, piece of sh*t, I wouldn't have it if it were given to me . Just for the record if I hadn't already got an EE myself I would definitely be interested, it is what I had been loking for for ages, then I got my EE and I am happy . For the time being ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted November 8, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 8, 2007 The gen on the left is not zeroing properly, piece of sh*t, I wouldn't have it if it were given to me . Just for the record if I hadn't already got an EE myself I would definitely be interested, it is what I had been loking for for ages, then I got my EE and I am happy . For the time being ! Diesel, you are like me (before I bit the bullet and went the DW V72-kit route) and we are exactly the type of buyers I am thinking of for such a watch. I can tell you that after getting my hands on this 7750-powered watch, the outside/visible differences between it and my DWs are minimal, at best (obviously, these are different models, but I think you know what I mean). And like I said before, those asymmetrical pushers trump all the little inaccuracies in my book. If I were to see one of these in the wild, even up close, I would have to assume it was just one of those gens that came out of Rolex with an odd (rare) dial. And I should know better. Having asymmetrical pushers gives a watch alot of credibility that it would not otherwise have, since just about everyone knows that the main thing to look for when spotting a vintage Daytona is whether it has UNevenly-spaced pushers or not (which denotes a rep or fake). p.s. The chrono hand on alot of gen Daytonas is slightly off. There have been many posts on TZ from owners asking if they are being neurotic because the slight misalignment of the hand bothers them (the answer is usually 'Yes, you are being neurotic. The watch is a beautiful antique.......live with it'). And the slight misalignment of the hour totalizer hand in the photo of my 6263 above has been fixed. It was due to the DW caseback's thicker sidewalls pressing on the pusher lever. I thinned/dremeled about 1/4 of the sidewall & the hand is back at its proper null point (12). This theoretically should not be a problem with the thinner 7760 movement. Remember, the watch in the photo has a 7750. I removed the rotor to make it function as a pseudo manual-wind watch and so the DW caseback would fit it. With the DW caseback installed on the 7750, the overall case dimensions & side profiles of all 3 watches in the photo are the same (excepting the differences for the different bezels). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dieselpower Posted November 8, 2007 Report Share Posted November 8, 2007 You have fired up my love of the Daytona again and I have just taken off my 1665 and put my EE on. I'm looking at it and am beginning to hanker after a silver dial with black subs (mine is black with silver subs) and so I have to say that if what you are proposing was produced I don't think I could resist one! Oh hell I'm in trouble again......will it ever end??? Bye bye $$$$ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted November 8, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 8, 2007 Once the rotor is removed, and a thinner caseback is installed, the only issue that I see with this watch is the subdial spacing. It's not that significant, but it does mean that your choice of dials is limited - you can't just use aftermarket VJ72 dial that you find on eBay, for instance. The only real problems with this watch are related to the dial -- crown is positioned slightly too high (I remember we had conversations about crown placement when you were comparing 62xx dials several months ago & I have been sensitized to this issue ever since) & the index markers around the circumference of the dial are a bit too far inward so they are coming into contact with the edge of the subdials around 3 & 9. I think the subdials themselves are correctly sized & placed on the dial, but the location of the index markers makes the subdials appear a bit 'off'. If you look at the subdial positions compared with the hour index markers on either side of the subdial you will see that they are about the same size & in the same location on the dial as on the gen. At least, that is the way it looks to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddy333 Posted November 8, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 8, 2007 You have fired up my love of the Daytona again and I have just taken off my 1665 and put my EE on. I'm looking at it and am beginning to hanker after a silver dial with black subs (mine is black with silver subs) and so I have to say that if what you are proposing was produced I don't think I could resist one! Oh hell I'm in trouble again......will it ever end??? Bye bye $$$$ I just wanted to say Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eunomians Posted November 8, 2007 Report Share Posted November 8, 2007 Interesting idea, but IMHO this goes back to 3-4 years ago when there were some pretty accurate 7750 62xx series watches available for the same price. And aftermarket parts were made from unobtanium, dals were flawed, etc... All in the same way as a 'new' 7750 version. I think that the vintage Daytona is for the connoisseur, and as such, extreme perfection is a prerequisite. In other words, I think that if you are willing to step up and pay $800 for a close rep, you probably would opt instead to buck up and buy a real V72 62xx instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youpmelone Posted November 8, 2007 Report Share Posted November 8, 2007 Gen on left, rep on right Certainly, not an exact match (no rep ever is), but do you see any 'huge' flaws? Positioning of the crown to the "units per hour" font of Rolex positioning of T swiss T looks all relatively minor, but am a noob we need ubi's opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eunomians Posted November 8, 2007 Report Share Posted November 8, 2007 How about me, Avitt and F333's opinons! Ok seriously... You will not get a perfect watch for $800. This is the issue at hand here. The only perfect watch you can get costs over $20k. For $800, what can you accept? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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