EuroTimez bezel vs. Genuine bezel assembly

[stilty]

So I picked up a genuine bezel assembly and figured I would do a quick comparison and show the results here.

Here is a comparison of the crystal retaining ring. Genuine on the left. The ET ring looks pretty good. The only thing you notice right away is the cutout on the ID of the ET ring to hold the gasket.

Here is the back. The ET looks pretty good. The gen is definitely finished better with nice smooth edges. The ET has some sharp edges and does not feel as good to the touch. The gasket cut out on the gen is a bit deeper.

Here are some measurements that I took:

Genuine

2.90mm H

37.55mm OD

30.55mm ID

ET

2.90mm H

37.65mm OD

30.50mm ID

The height measurement really threw me off. Other members, myself included, have had problems installing a genuine insert. It is impossible to install as it appears the retaining ring is too tall, but obviously, that is not the case. It is the same height as the gen. I'll get to why you can't install a genuine insert in the ET bezel in a minute.

Next I look at the bezel. Here is where the ET falls short when compared to the gen.

First, here is the teeth on the gen bezel. Nice deep cutouts.

Here are the teeth on the ET. Not even in the same league.

So here are some measurements I took of the two.

Genuine

2.56mm H

40.00mm OD

ET

2.60mm H

39.90mm OD

Okay, now I'm really confused. I'm thinking to myself. The retaining rings are the same height, so the bezel must be too thin and that is why you cannot properly fit a gen insert in the ET bezel. Wrong! There goes that theory. The ET bezel is actually thicker than the gen.

Now I am really puzzled. I'm thinking why did I just drop $300 on a gen bezel assembly when the ET set up is nearly 1:1?

I now find my answer....

I spend a few minutes trying to figure it out. Why can't a gen insert be seated in the ET bezel without pushing against the retaining ring?

Look at the difference in how deep the rep factory cut up into the bezel as compared to the gen.

Here is the bottom of the gen bezel. Notice how thick the notches are for the click spring.

Now look at the ET bezel. Look how far up they cut into the back of the bezel.

I take a measurement. From the bottom of the bezel to the teeth, the cut out is 1.10mm deep. On the ET bezel, the cut is 1.53mm! They cut too much out so the bezel sits too low on the retaining ring! That is why the back of the gen insert pushes against the retaining ring. I'm also guessing that is why a gen or clarks crystal looks too tall when installed in the case.

The other difference is the washer. The gen is 1.90mm wide and the ET is 1.60mm wide. This may also affect how low the ET bezel sits on the retaining ring. I didn't try it, but you may want to try and replace that part before you go filing down the retaining ring on the ET. Or, maybe it is possible to fit two washers in the ET bezel in order to help it sit higher on the retaining ring.

Now, I'm sure you want to know how the gen set up looks on the ET case. I installed on a V3 case. The case needs some work still. So don't mind the lug holes, the CG's or the nasty lug engravings.

Here is the retaining ring installed

Here is the bezel and click spring installed

Here is a side shot

And another

Everything looks pretty good here... nice recessed insert, proper crystal height

shot of the tritium pearl. gotta buff out those engravings... serious cringe factor

Anyway, I hope you enjoyed the comparison and review and this answers some questions on why you can't fit a gen insert in a Eurotimez sub.

Please don't mind the pictures. I didn't have a lot of time to spend on them.

[rogerthat]

Very informative post.

Thank you very much,

M

[pjussen]

Great job!

-This topic has been driving me crasy for some weeks now

Have a great weekend

/P

[vizsladog]

Nice write up.

Thanks

[RobbieG]

Thank God of people like Stilty around here. That you have the time and inclination to figure all this stuff out baffles me. Thanks to you, the rest of the members who don't have the time can just read stuff like this and adjust purchases accordingly without spending needless time on something that ultimately doesn't work right. Bravo and three cheers for Stilty.

[vizsladog]

you can make the engravings look better on the lugs???

Mine look awful compared to the PT/WM9 (i have a 2008 euromariner)

[alligoat]

Fantastic write-up Stilty! I've been playing with my Euromariner bezel and this is a big help. I swapped out the tension ring for a gen and was thinking that I need a larger washer, now I'm thinking maybe a bezel also. At that point I'd have a gen assembly!

This is a great write-up and I think it should be posted as a sticky at the top of this section.

[vizsladog]

agreed.

I sent my euro to bk for full mods and i know trimming the retaing ring is one mod he does.

[cib0rgman]

So with a lathe this can be fix right. just shave some of the bezel and is good to go.

Am I right?

[stilty]

*** UPDATE ***

Okay, I need to clarify that the ET bezel as pictured in the original post is from a V1 Sub. It seems the factory updated the bezel on the V3 case.

Below is a picture of the V3 bezel. I was assuming that they were the same, but they are NOT! The V3 is an improvement over the V1.

I must remember to never assume because it only makes an ASS out of U and ME!

The machining on the V3 bezel is an improvement over the V1. Also, the click teeth seem thicker, and they did not machine as deep in the bezel. I measured from the bottom of the bezel to the bottom of the teeth and it is 1.40mm deep. The gen is still only 1.10mm, but the V3 is a lot more closer. I have not tried to install a genuine insert in the new set up so I can't comment if it will fit or not.

ET V.3 Bezel

vs

Gen Bezel

[gplracer]

Fantastic write up. I guess now we need to hear from someone who has a version 3 to see how the gen insert fits. Also, on the bay there are many aftermarket party bezel assemblies that say guaranteed to fit a submariner. Has anyone ever tried one of these on a Euromariner?

[TeeJay]

That's a really informative write up, definitely required reading for anyone interested in modding

[gplracer]

Stilty,

Did you have a tough time getting the bezel off? What procedure do you find best?

[Genrep]

For someone with 10 thumbs and a disinclination to fix things himself, it just goes to reinforce the logic that for folks like me, we should leave it to the experts - and thank God for RWG for this. BTW, George at WM9 tells me that they are calculating costs of bezel inserts for both the serial M sub and the SD - and the prices should be ready in the next couple of months. I have put in my pre-order. To make sure nothing goes wrong (in this economic climate), get yours in. Cheers.

[gplracer]

For someone with 10 thumbs and a disinclination to fix things himself, it just goes to reinforce the logic that for folks like me, we should leave it to the experts - and thank God for RWG for this. BTW, George at WM9 tells me that they are calculating costs of bezel inserts for both the serial M sub and the SD - and the prices should be ready in the next couple of months. I have put in my pre-order. To make sure nothing goes wrong (in this economic climate), get yours in. Cheers.

Are you saying inserts and bezels so we can use them on our Euromariner?

[Shundi]

Thanks for taking the time to do such a good write up!!!

[RWG Technical]

Great write up and comparison, pics and measurements tell the complete picture.

Thanks for writing this up.

RG

[stilty]

I can test fit a gen insert into the V.3 bezel. But it is glued in, just like the V.1. So before I even attempt it, I feel I already have my answer.

Anyway, for those of us, myself included, that thought the problem with fitting the gen insert was the retaining ring. I now know that the retaining ring is fine. In fact, it is pretty much 1:1 of the gen. It is the ET bezel that is causing the problem. The gen insert snaps in no problem with a nice fit, but it is that the bezel sits too low on the retaining ring and caused the back of the insert to touch the top of the retaining ring. I don't know if there is a fix for this. Maybe a 0.40mm shim or spacer between the bezel and retaining ring?

Anyway, on a side note, the camera shop called and the D80 is repaired, so I should be able to post some better pics.

[gplracer]

I can test fit a gen insert into the V.3 bezel. But it is glued in, just like the V.1. So before I even attempt it, I feel I already have my answer.

Anyway, for those of us, myself included, that thought the problem with fitting the gen insert was the retaining ring. I now know that the retaining ring is fine. In fact, it is pretty much 1:1 of the gen. It is the ET bezel that is causing the problem. The gen insert snaps in no problem with a nice fit, but it is that the bezel sits too low on the retaining ring and caused the back of the insert to touch the top of the retaining ring. I don't know if there is a fix for this. Maybe a 0.40mm shim or spacer between the bezel and retaining ring?

Anyway, on a side note, the camera shop called and the D80 is repaired, so I should be able to post some better pics.

Glad to hear your camera is ready. We will await the shots. I have a Canon 20D that I like very much.

[bklm1234]

great writeup, stilty. I always knew the bezel sat too low in relation to the top of the retaining ring, just didn't know it's because the click teeth were cut too deep from the bottom. It also means the part of the retaining ring that the bezel fits onto is too thick. Can you confirm this by measureing the retaining ring's bottom thickness, stilty?

I took a look at the wm9 bezel, it's also cut deep. I haven't measured the depth. Maybe it's not as deep because the same insert (tried JO and stock rep insert) can snap in to a wm9 bezel but can't snap in to a Euromariner bezel. It's not recessed enough though. I have to mill the inserts some. I have to tell wm9 George to improve this.

My fix (without going to a gen bezel assembly) is to shave some off the top of the retaining ring and the insert snaps in. Of course with a Clark crystal which is 2.02mm, the crystal looks too high above the insert. But a thinner crystal like wholesaleoutlet's (1.84mm) or the stock crystal won't look so high.

-bk

[gplracer]

BK, Do you have any experience with wholesaleoutlet's bezel? They sell one on the bay. A good solution might be this bezel and the correct size tension ring.

[bertieng]

So a gen bezel, insert, tension spring, sapphire will fit onto the Euromariner retention ring OK to give the most accurate finish. Am I correct?

[chefcook]

BK, Do you have any experience with wholesaleoutlet's bezel? They sell one on the bay. A good solution might be this bezel and the correct size tension ring.

It's rubbish. Wrong in every possible way and far too expensive for it's quality.

[gplracer]

It's rubbish. Wrong in every possible way and far too expensive for it's quality.

Well.... I wanted to know.... It was the answer I was afraid of....

[alligoat]

As BK has indicated, a fairly simple fix for the Euro bezel assembly is to sand down the top of the crystal retention ring. I took a piece of 320 wet dry sandpaper on a flat surface and just turned the retention ring upside down and sanded it until I was happy. Circular motion and vary your hand/finger position to keep the sanding even. I sanded mine down to .5mm or less. The gen insert snapped into the bezel (after cleaning off the glue) and then I was able to snap the bezel onto the retention ring (after installing the click spring and the washer). Sure hope the insert stays put, it has so far, but I may still glue it as a precaution- I'm pretty rough on my watches!