Hong Kong is amazing for Watches...Met up with ANGUS in Guangzhou.

[promotersf]

Just got back from another biz trip in Hong Kong and it's always a pleasant surprise. Great dining, feels like NY on speed since everyone walks fast, talks fast, eats fast, shops fast, maybe F%#s fast...BUT fun nonetheless. There's basically a fine watch store, sometimes several on every block which makes us watchaholics salivate..and on many wrists. Many gens but also many fakes. I was shopping for a gen AP ROO rubberclad w/black dial, but I wasn't getting the deals I was hoping for...but there's an interesting wrinkle on that.

ROLEX is king in HK, but all the brands are represented. I probably hit dozens of watch stores, the highlight being the Panerai boutique in Central, and comparing several HBBs at the Tourneau in Macau in the Venetian(the SF and Vegas Tourneaus don't carry Hublot so it was a pleasant surprise). Also almost pulled the trigger on a IWC Big Pilot, but decided that I shouldn't be pressured since i was on a long biz trip and shouldn't make an impulsive buying decision just because they had it in stock. All dealers will ship to US no tax, but I think you would still be hit with the US customs tax at a later date.

Several people have commented on HK trip reports so I wasn't gonna even post anything BUT I had a chance to meet Angus and he shed some light on things. I emailed Angus about possibly hooking up for a dim sum lunch, or dinner or just drinks. He had a Cartier Santos 100 swiss 7753 which got "snagged" so he offered to meet in person to meet and also avoid another "shipping issue". I was busy in meetings, but was able to meet on the evening of my last night in Guangzhou. I was hoping to grab dinner, but it was late and my GF was having "tummy issues" do to the adventurous eating adventures we were going on in Guangzhou...so we met at a local Starbucks. Angus showed up with his sweet GF and we enjoyed some refreshing frappacinos.

First off, Angus is young but I like that...reminds me of me when I started my first biz @ 23. He had recently graduated from the university and is now focusing 100% on his business. I've only worked with angus on a handful of watches, under a dozen but he has become my go to guy since Eddie Lee is now "retired". Angus has always shown excellent customer service, has always been honest with me like EL used to be, and isn't part of the Cartel. Angus broke down the rep game so I now have a better picture, let's just say that I believe in free trade and competition, and don't like price fixing so Angus will always be my dealer going forward. The Cartel is more interested in price fixing and without pushing the envelope with making the best. There are 2 schools of thought here, making something the best from the beginning(like the HBB) which Angus pushes for, or coming out with something good, then improve upon allowing the dealers to sell generation after generation and lots and lots of reps(cartel). I prefer doing it right from the beginning.

The best reps come from 2-3 factories, and we have more exceptional ones coming...one being the AP ROO secs at 12:00. 2 gens were purchased to go off of, and we can expect this in the next 3 months...hearing this, I decided to hold off on the Gen purchase. it's supposed to be amazing. there are several other watches coming out that I had agreed not to disclose on...i think the coming reps will be BETTER but fewer, which i'm okay with. i always prefer something close to gen as opposed to having more models to choose from. So for all of you who are waiting for the ROO seconds @ 12:00, it is DEFINITELY coming.

If you're ever in Guangzhou, hit up angus...his plan in the future is to open a billiards parlor in a couple of years and I not only know it will happen, but I'll be throwing back a couple pints there one day. Thanks for taking the time to hook up Angus.

dave

[watcher]

Sounds fantastice! and I agree 100% with you about Angus. He will always be my first port of call should I need a good smooth deal. It is nice to be able to put a face to the dealer I'm sure and will give more here confidence to deal with him if it was really needed anyway!

I would like to know what you think about your Santos 7753 as it is high on my current wants list?

You will have now caused Angus to receive many, many AP ROO '12' emails! including me!!!

great post and thankyou.

[Chronus]

sounds like everyone had a great time, and some interesting info there too

MBW already has the AP ROO with secs at 12 but it is the expensive ETA with DD Chrono module.

MBK will have the modified Asian 7750 movement with secs at 12, so that will probably be the one to go for unless the Chinese improve their cases and dials etc. MBW uses the MBK as the base for their secs at 12 though, just modifying the case.

Interesting times ahead... and I agree.. fewer top quality reps is better news... that way everyone can hopefully get them instead of having to pick and choose

[alligoat]

Cool story! I'm certainly envious of the guys that can get over to Hong Kong and Guangzhou. My watchmaker just got a deal to fly Delta to Shanghi for like $750 round trip and jumped on it. Don't know if I could talk the wife into it or not.

Angus has had some ups and downs in the last few years, but it sounds like he's doing better now.

[MAHLER]

The Cartel is more interested in price fixing and without pushing the envelope with making the best.

this sound like prove of what many suspected ...

[LordRasta]

One of my favorite dealers even though he didn't answer my last email! I'm glad to hear he is well and still striving to provide us with better reps.

[Triodus]

Did he shed any light on when the new Ceramic GMT Master might be released?

"SOF"

[promotersf]

Yes, I was actually prepared to drop $17.5k on gen AP ROO or a IWC Big Pilot, but leaning more toward the AP ROO. It's one of those watches that "calls to me" and trust me, i've tried it on several times. Angus has convinced me to wait...the fact that the factory spent the money on TWO gens to replicate makes it all the more interesting.

I'm not one to bad mouth any of our dealers(I think they all are offer a redeeming service), I've made 1 purchase through the cartel awhile ago and never paid much mind to all this talk about the cartel...but the reality of the situation is that they are not looking out for our interests. there have been many situations where angus has been "penalized" due to the cartel's dislike for angus pushing the envelope and not agreeing to price fixing. More importantly, I appreciate a dealer like Angus who is making the effort to get the factories to make a better product.

Sorry Angus if you are getting more emails my friend

Ceramic bezel on HBB...definitely coming from the same factory as the real deal holyfield.

Several new offerings coming soon...I need new projects after clearing out 20+ of my best reps.

He's a 2 man show with his partner, an older gentleman that is friends with River and Eddie Lee. Angus was hoping his new website would mean fewer emails since all the info is on the site, but he's actually getting more emails...the night we met, he was answering emails for 14 hours much to the chagrin of his girlfriend.

He's a great fellow, I may try to get his ass drunk when I head back to China later this year. I was gonna take a pic of us both with my iphone, but I thought it would be better for him to stay anonymous.

dave

P.S. awesome dining in Hong Kong and Macau. so many great meals from top of the line fine dining to hole in the wall noodle houses, great brunch at the Intercontinental as usual and Peninsula.

P.S.S. casinos in Macau kinda suck...biased since I've been going to vegas since I was 18(20+years) 6+ times a year. Venetian is nice, rooms equivalent to vegas, the Wynn in Macau is pretentious as hell, did not really enjoy my few hours playing BJ there. people gamble different in Asia, ALOT of surrendering, and total disregard for BJ strategy...case in point, if you're betting $5000, dealer has a queen showing, you do not split 2 Tens...this kind of comedy happened all weekend.

P.S.S.S. hey watcher, the Santos 100 chrono swiss 7753 is very good, i was at the Cartier boutique next to the Panerai boutique in Central and tried it on again...off white cream dial looked close, crown looked good with proper dark blue, the movement is like gen with functioning datechanger @ 10:00 position, the only thing that might be off was the date font...the cartier gen looked thin and weaker, where the date font isn't really bold, but clean on the rep...the rep date font looks better. its an impressive watch that looks and feels solid. my first one that got "snagged" had a replacement gen black gator from HKtan which also got snagged, so i'll be swapping out the rep strap(which isn't bad) with the HKtan after I order it. i would rate it as excellent, one I will be keeping in my collection. i'm tempted to buy a gen for a day to compare, then return but I hate the hassles of the return process.

thanks

dave

[Chronus]

P.S.S. casinos in Macau kinda suck...biased since I've been going to vegas since I was 18(20+years) 6+ times a year. Venetian is nice, rooms equivalent to vegas, the Wynn in Macau is pretentious as hell, did not really enjoy my few hours playing BJ there. people gamble different in Asia, ALOT of surrendering, and total disregard for BJ strategy...case in point, if you're betting $5000, dealer has a queen showing, you do not split 2 Tens...this kind of comedy happened all weekend.

That is too funny.... they are crazy...

I saw some London casinos hosting Thai games now as well... guess lots of rich Thais around.

[Watchmeister]

D-

Huge thanks for the update. And I am glad to hear Angus is doing well. I wish him great success as he launches his new website. Obviously, none of the big watch wearers can wait for that AP - and I clearly fall into that camp.

[promotersf]

Thanks Warren,

it's awesome traveling but I LOVE COMING HOME! and even though i've been keeping up with some emails, I have around 900 to wade through, my first stop once i opened my Macbook was RWG...I guess this is my home that I missed while I was out.

dave

p.s. excited about the AP ROO secs @ 12:00 too...i've been spending way to much time looking at the trading corner on Timezone for one and I think I'll hold off for now and wait for Angus to offer this!

[JohnG]

I am kind of new but I have read a lot about the "cartel" and fixed pricing. But when I was shopping my first purchase - an SSD - Angus's price is IDENTICAL to Josh/Andrew. It looks cheaper at first, but when you add the $90 ETA option so that it is the SSD offered everywhere else, it is the exact same price TO THE DOLLAR.

I ended buying from Ruby because though it was $10 more than from Angus or Josh or Andrew, the EMS was only $5 to Spain (instead of $30 from Angus or 45 Fedex from Josh/Andrew - they don't even offer EMS to Spain.) And she offers six months warranty. If Josh or Angus even offer warranty I cannot find it anywhere on their sites - though I understand they are very good about taking care of problems regardless). And Andrew offers 3 months...

I researched a TON of sellers. I would love to find one that offers good service, stands behind their product, AND who offers a price significantly lower than the "cartel" but to date I have not.

Could it be the watch I was looking for? Perhaps if I were buying a different watch my experience would be different - but I have researched some others that interest me and have found pretty much the same thing. Where is the great below-cartel pricing everyone is talking about???

JuanG

[promotersf]

For me it isn't about the lower price, Angus' price might be identical...for me it's about customer service and who I like to direct my purchasing to.

My issue is when a couple dealers get together to tell a factory NOT to sell to other dealers, only to them so that they can set the price. When a couple dealers decide for everyone that the quality is sufficient, when it could be better from the beginning. Also when a group gets together knowing that they can sell an inferior product now, make improvements along the way and get everyone that bough generation 1 version 2, then upgrade to version 3 from version 2, etc. I know there have been countless threads that I really never paid much attention to, but when i hear that the cartel tells the factories not to sell to another dealer, they're [censored]ing with competition and free trade to the detriment and liabilities of the customer which is...all of us.

But that is why we have choices and where we decide to put our spending dollars, euros, etc towards. We all have choice who to buy from, I prefer to buy from someone who offers excellent customer service and is always trying to provide a great service and better products. I run my own business and know that my clients have options when they do business with me. It's not price, it's the quality product and service you extend. I received this from my first and favorite dealer Eddie Lee, now that he's retired, Angus is filling in quite nicely.

dave

P.S. To answer questions about reps in China...YES, they are everywhere. You can't walk around TST without someone whispering "copywatch, copywatch...". i spent many days on a previous trip looking at rep watches in hong kong, in the markets, in Shenzhen(Lowu complex), Beijing...but the truth is you are just going to come across garbage. i spent hours with what i felt was a dealer who had better stuff, constantly show me items that i wasn't looking for...granted, i was only looking for swiss Pams, Breitlings, IWCs, but when they were able to get me the quality standards we're used to, the pricing was good, but not remarkable. the best will be "hidden" in other watch cases that they will bring out, or brought over by runners...but overall a waste of time. we get the Cream of the Crop here without wading through the BS, that's why alot of us take our community for granted since once we found our home base, we hit pay dirt and can always get the best of the best.

imagine if we didn't have RWG, or some of the other forums, what options would we have? how nice is it to say I want a Ceramic HBB, a swiss Breitling Super Ocean, a Swiss 111h, a IWC 3717 etc and get it? send it out for a Chieftang Double AR, a The Zigmeister superlume? who out there in the real world that we live in have these options? i purchased 3 gen PAMs and a gen Breitling Skyland this year because I was getting bored with my reps, but the truth is, i'm re-engergized about seeking out the best and building up my collection again.

i know i have taken things for granted and that's why i appreciate and value our forum so much. you really can't do much better out there on your own, we're truly lucky to have our dealers.

[dluddy]

Great report and nice that you met up with Angus. Waiting patiently for Seconds @ 12

[rek001]

So interesting, thanks for your report. Angus sounds like a pretty good guy, I'll have to try him out.

I'm patiently waiting for some new reps to come out, nothing has been floating my boat for about 7 months now.

[TwoTone]

EXCELLENT Read Dave...

And very insightful...

Thanks for taking the time to write it...

Double T

[yellomen]

Thanx Dave for such an excellent report

An for all the reasons you name, Angus is my one and only dealer for quite some time now... OK... and all of you guys cause i buy most of my watches used

[ta8088]

Thanks for the report Dave. Glad you had a great trip to China. I haven't ordered from Angus yet as I've managed to find just about everything I've wanted from members but there are a couple that I want that I'll probably order from him. Can't wait to see some pics of the 7753 Santos. I'll be curious to see what get released in the next couple of months. Hoping that Skyland and ceramic GMT are in the works.

[archibald]

I think it's great that folks are happy w/ Jos and Andrew, but IMO, it's in out best interests collectors to support, at least w/ a portion of our business, Angus and other dealers not/no longer affiliated w/ the cartel.

[omni]

Its always nice when someone can shed some human insight on the faceless dealers and their thinking & trends. The more information, no matter how small, good or bad, gives the buyers a better perspective in making informed purchase decisions. It keeps the forum members less feeling like the "mushrooms in the cellar" being fed manure and kept in the dark.

Also your tips about HK are well taken, my new semi-retired occupation of "world traveler" has me do a lot of travel forum research.

Much appreciated. Thanks Dave.

Omni

[FxrAndy]

Thanks it is always nice to see abit of the inside line.

[Dani]

Great read bro.

Norway finaly have a AP AD so was their for almost an hour today sec at 12 sounds good.

The cartel bit is no suprise and makes me whant to quit buying reps and just have a couple of gens.

Cheers

[freddy333]

Great read. Too bad you cannot post pics (which is understandable), but thanks.

[rek001]

Thank you for your very interesting and informative post - sadly it does confirm what a lot of us have been suspecting now for awhile.

It's my dream to travel to the East to experience new things and hopefully meet up with a dealer such as Angus or Watchmark and get the scoop firsthand.

Based on this I think I'll be contacting Angus soon.

[ximenes]

Great post! Good to get the insight on Angus... a good guy who always answers emails, offers options, and doesn't try to sell you something he doesn't have quick access to. That has been my experience.

x