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I took an evening off from framing and went out to play in the woods. Supposed to get big winds the next 2-3 days so let's enjoy the Fall colors while they're here.

Here is the MBK 5513/1680 lowdown... All the later MBK 5513/1680 cases I've had experience with were very close to a genuine 1680 case internally except for the dial window and dial seat sizes. MBK 5512/13/1680 -- The dial seat and dial window are cut for a 26mm 5513 spec dial and the inside of the case is spaced for an Eta 2836. Dial seat = the flat area inside the case where the dial mounts. Dial window = the opening in the front of the case where the dial shows. A genuine 1520/70 and 26mm genuine spec 5512/13 dial will not work properly because the stem will be too far to the front of the case. A genuine 1570/1575 date movement and 26.5mm genuine spec 1680 dial will work if the shoulder on the dial seat inside the case is enlarged from approximately 26.2mm to 26.7mm AND the dial window is enlarged slightly to expose more of the dial and allow more of the minute markers to show. The stem lines up Ok with this combination. You could cut the OD of an oem spec 1680 dial down to 26.0mm but it will probably cause the markers to be partially covered up (depending on each particular dial). If you want to go with an MBK case, rolex 1520/70 and 5512/13 dial...you will need to use a 1570/75 date movement with all the date works removed and the date wheel spacer still in place or a no date movement with a date wheel spacer, 1570/75 center wheel, canon pinion, and hour wheel. Why? Because the rolex 1520/70 no date movements are too thin to be used as is in an MBK case. If you use rolex type case screws, they usually have to be the razor edge type and it may still be hard to turn the movement inside the case because the screws may bind in the 'screw groove' cut in the case so you may have to use case clamps and screws. Turning a movement/dial inside the case (especially one that is a tight fit) can scratch paint off the dial. I sometimes use case clamps and screws in MBK cases so I do not have to move the movement/dial back and forth in the case to r/r the movement. Case clamps work as just good and do not leave marks inside the 'screw groove' in the case caused by running the screw head out against the wall of the 'screw groove' to hold the movement tight in the case. If you plan to use an MBK 5513/1680 case with a genuine rolex 1570/75 and 26.5mm dial, you need to have the dial seat and dial window cut. The dial window will work as is but it is a little bit too small for a 26.5mm 1680 dial and will scratch the minute markers and maybe the swiss T 25 at the bottom of the dial. This is why the outside diameter of the 1680 dials are roughly ground down to fit inside the shoulder cut in the dial seat on MBK 1680 watches...the dials were originally 26.5mm or so and they do a quickie grind job on them to reduce the od to fit inside the shoulder in the dial seat. Catch 22...if you enlarge the diameter of the dial window very much you will cut into the angle in the reflector aka 'rehaut'. I cut about .5mm total at a 90 degree angle to the front of the watch, not at an angle to match the reflector. After enlarging the dial window I finished the reflector with sandpaper while spinning the case in the lathe and you will never notice it has been enlarged. It is also a good idea to lightly sand the dial seat with 600 or 1000 sandpaper so the rough surface will not scratch the dial when turning the movement in the case. I doubt pictures would help much because anyone who can do the work can immediately see what needs to be done after measuring the dial, dial seat and dial window. In reality the MBK cases are Eta 2836 with 26mm dial or 1570/75 with 26.5mm dial cases. For 1520/70 and 26mm 5513 dials, go with a Yuki etc case to get by without any modifications. Note 5-30-16...I bought an MBW '5512' timehead (no bracelet) from an RWG member (easy deal!) a while back but the watch came with a thicker 1665 SD bezel assembly. Counting the cost of the watch plus a new bezel assembly, I probably would have been better off buying a Yuki case for an extra $150/$200. It had an Asian etaclone 2836 and a pretty good dial. It seems that a few 5512/13/1680 from this last batch came with SD bezels and you will not know until it arrives. So...imho, the bottom line for an MBW case for a 1680 project using a rolex 1570/75 vs a Yuki case would be 60/40 in favor of the Yuki case for these reasons: 1...Yuki case is oem spec. 2...You get the correct bezel. 3...The Yuki case needs no modification. 4...The Yuki case has proper letters and numbers. Downside...no dial or movement. MBW disadvantages when using it for a 1680 with 1570/75 and 26.5mm dial...if you count the cost of having an MBW case modified to accept a 1570/75 and 26.5mm dial, you will probably need to spend an additional $50 to $100 and if it has the wrong bezel you are out an additional $50 to $100. Upside...lower buy-in and a movement/dial combo left over to sell. MBW watch vs Yuki case for Eta movement project...imho 60/40 for the MBW case only if it has the correct bezel and a good dial. But here's the catch...for a 5512/13 you probably need to put an Eta 2846 or something similar in it for a slower beat rate and the MBW dial might not be up to snuff. Add the cost of a 2846 etc and a dial and you are back in Yuki case $$ territory. MBW watch vs Yuki case for a 1680 project using a rolex 1570/75 and 26.5mm dial...Go for the Yuki unless you get a real deal on an MBK watch with the correct bezel and a good movement and dial to sell to help pay for the modifications to the case. DW 5513 and 1680 cases... These are all really 1680 spec cases (more or less) so if you have one with 5513 stamped on it, a 1520 and 26mm 5513 dial will mount up in the case but the dial is a bit too small for the dial window and will also be too far from the dial seat. What you end up with is a 26mm dial in a 26mm dial window with the dial mounted about .8mm below the dial seat and nothing holding the dial in place except the dial screws. I did make a very thin spacer out of aluminum to fill in the space on one DW '5513' but it took a long time to make the spacer in a lathe because it was so thin and flimsy. I had to finish it up in an old 8mm WW type 'bezel chuck' made in the 1920s. WW = regular watchmaker lathe. 'Bezel chuck' = a chuck that looks like a steel wheel with concentric grooves cut in it. It will expand or contract a few mm to accommodate small, thin bezel rings etc. DW cases are a low $$ alternative to expensive 'genspec cases' but you will need a genspec bezel kit, crystal, tube, crown etc. Also...as I have mentioned many times before, the DW cases have rounded case sides like a DJ and not flat like a submariner. They could be sanded flat on a disc grinder or by hand but it would take a lot of careful work. One good thing about the rounded case sides is they make the watch look like an old 'high mileage' example with a storied history after they get sufficiently scuffed up. I have seen a few genuine 1680/5512/13 with the case sides rounded from years of wear and numerous polish jobs so there are genuine examples with rounded case sides in circulation. 3-23-21: Yuki, DW (David Wong), and MBW/MBK cases are no longer available so now it is Ruby, Phong and a few others selling cases with Ruby's probably being less expensive. Once in a while one of the Yuki, MBW/MBK, DW cases may show up for sale here but not often. Note 2-26-16...I tried a genuine 7mm crown on an MBK 5512 I got last week and it will not work because the case tube in the MBK case is not oem spec and the post on the genuine crown will not go into the MBK case tube...the hole in the tube is too small. The MBK tube is made to have an O ring down low outside and the crown does have the skirt machined at the bottom for O ring clearance but of course none of it is oem spec. On my other MBK cases, I removed the case tubes as soon as I worked on them and installed aftmkt oem spec case tubes (did not try any genuine oem crowns) and the oem spec case tubes screwed right in but iirc the relief in the case for the case tube base gasket (where the tube contacts the case) was not oem spec and I had to use an aftmkt gasket of some sort. The MBK crown will not screw down onto an oem spec case tube either because the MBK crown threads are too small. The MBK tube and crown look like the same case tube and crown set that came on some of my DW cases. The MBK case tube is made like an old 8mm tube except for the size. Note 10-6-16...IF the case neck is oem spec 28.2mm and IF you need a new bezel assembly...here is what I found (usually) works: GS PA 462-66 crystal and ST/Clark etc bezel kit IF the ID of the inner bezel is 30.2mm. The 28.2mm case neck and 30.2mm inner bezel will not crack the crystal when pressing it on because it is not a real tight fit on the crystal while at the same time the crystal will not pop off or leak in day to day service (although I have not tested one below about 5 atm/70 psi). GS crystals are precision made and always the same spec unlike much of the inconsistent junk scattered all over the internet. The PA 462-66 is a domed crystal that has the sidewall coming straight up about 1.7 to 2.0mm above the bezel insert. You also have to make sure the bezel washer does not cause the rotating bezel to bind. The washer needs to fit over the small lip on the inner bezel (if there is one, it is there to keep the sharp washer away from the crystal) while not sticking out over the outer edge of the inner bezel or it will bind the rotating bezel. Many (if not most) aftmkt bezel washers are out of spec in my experience. I have tried this same setup with a GS PA 462-67 crystal and the inner bezel was too tight. Also measured a couple MBK inner bezels and they were both 30.15mm id...not much difference but they can be pretty tight with the GS PA 462-66 crystal. Matter of fact, I broke a new PA 462-66 with a MBK inner bezel on an MBK case a few days ago. It leaked and I had to look down through the outer edge of the crystal with a 10x loupe under bright light to see the hairline cracks. I found that ST/Clark rotating bezels will accept oem spec inserts and they snap in correctly...many aftmkt inserts and insert seats in bezels are out of spec. More DW case info: DW 55xx case review... - The Rolex Area - RWG

I will try to explain our position on above matter. High end builds are a touchy thing and I have done my due diligence. Having spoken to most of our Rolex modders I have found there are parts Rolex will sell unrestricted and those they do not, restricted. (some of you may know this but others may not so ....) Some have sources for them low and others have paid more this is due to access , if you can get from Rolex direct or have a supplier who does sell to you with a reasonable markup you get them on the cheap others have much paid more. I also have been on the phone with some heavy builders and they have paid prices on the high and low but in truth could not recall what the hell they paid on everything , I find that reasonable if you have 5 or 6 you've done as in this case. (I would not know beyond a doubt) I know I know write it down but some are not as organized as others so crap happens. This being said our habit of asking for breakdowns is a good thing but let's also look at the what the watch is worth overall not cherry pick a part or two you may be able to get cheaper. (did they who knows) Now it has been postulated that some always price on the high side and list their parts on the high end of what they cost in this we have decided to let the market do the work. Look you got no business buying a build for 2 to 5 k if you do not know your stuff and if you do not you ask around and research, your job as buyer not ours as mods. Now if a guy posted a TC with a gen insert and crystal for 2 k we would crush it but with laundry list of parts: phong this yuki that gen this that we can not get into it to many maybe's involved to make a definitive call. Now feel free to post in a thread if you think a bit high on something but let's not start a row you will never know what they paid and neither will we on parts, so keep it short and sweet. To expand further I have always felt that just sourcing all these parts and getting them put together right has a value all it's own, how many times have I seen guys post I bought this for 3-5 hundred but doesn't fit, how do you price that in. (we don't ) So look at the break down but also look at the watch in total in regard to price and more importantly is it worth that to you.

https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/introducing-the-iwc-ingenieur-automatic-40mm

Howdy gents, I got a PM today from someone asking how to upgrade his membership, so I did a little looking around. It's remarkably hard to find the instructions, so I thought I'd post them again here. For your reading pleasure.......

IMHO there is something about these watches from the 60s and 70s that is aestehtically much more appealing than contemporary watches.

I just listed a 25 295 C at 120 USD

I'm game to help out in any way. It's surprising to me that the factory wants to use 3D scans because I've never ever had any success with applications like this. That said, if that's what they ask for, then that's what they ask for. I would defer to them since they're the ones that will be making the damn cases

Agreed. I'd love a resin Breitling from the '70's. Today is my classic. Mine is on the blue toad. My mate is wearing his Speedmaster too - but whilst mine is a Moon watch his is the FOIS (First Omega In Space). Both gens of course

I spoke to a watch parts re-seller in China about a custom case order and he got in touch with a factory that previously made a high quality Vintage Rlx Case that he sold. I asked this particular guy, because I bought a good case from him at a good price and the case-back is the first one I've owned where my Rolex Oyster Opener fits like a glove (maybe just coincidence ) . The "MONTRES ROLEX..." embossing on the inside is also very good and better than on other 1000$+ cases that I've seen. Here is what I gathered so far: Minimum Order Quantity is 100 Cases, though it will be cheaper if a bigger order is placed (they normally do bigger production runs than 100). The factory needs 3D Scans or Drawings. For best results, they also need a genuine sample case. They have experience making oyster watch cases and they do full detailing on the case (and assembly if crown/tube/pushers are part of the case) - not just simple CNC'ing. I don't have a price/case yet. My contact said the factory needs 3D Scans or Drawings for a proper price quotation. I will see if I can get at least a ball-park figure for a run of 100, 200 and 500 cases without the 3D Scans. Based on pricing I could negotiate for a single case that he had in stock, I'd estimate that a run of ~100 Cases can be realized for 100$ or less per case (excl. the cost of 3D Scanning!). Can I see a show of hands who is interested in pursuing this further? What I mean is: Willing to share the upfront investment & work involved and aware of the risks involved (I've been around for 10 years and the majority of member projects which involved more than a datewheel turned to shit in one way or another). Where were we on the topic of 3D Scanning? Is there only this one company that takes 1000$ for case scan, or did someone have a scanner at work or otherwise accessible (or know of a cheaper vendor)? @paristoto (as FYI)

There are 3 roads to non-genuine Newmans - 1. the cheapest/easiest option, buy a rep ($300+) 2. the moderately expensive/difficult option, build an ETA 7750-powered franken ($1,000+) 3. the expensive/difficult option, build a Valjoux 72-powered franken (genuine 62xx Daytonas are powered by [Rolex] modified V72 movements) ($3,000-$6,000+) 3a. buy a pre-assembled V72-powered franken from 1 of the aftermarket parts sellers & have it professionally overhauled (these things often look like they were assembled by monkeys & arrive in dirty/dodgy condition) ($3,000-$4,000+) For option 1, do your research before you begin! Spend time looking at genuine Newmans on gen watch sites & ebay. Learn the differences between versions & Oyster/non & collect pics of gens for comparison. Then, browse the dealer listings in the Watches section. For option 2, beginning with the same rep, swap out as many of the rep components with better aftermarket or genuine Rolex components as you can afford. For option 3, get a 2nd (or 3rd) job, start saving & pulling your hair out. At the same time, start searching online for a used V72 movement & have it properly overhauled. Then, buy an aftermarket case, dial/handset & bracelet. Optionally, if you have sufficiently deep pockets, you can replace the aftermarket crown/tube, crystal, pushers, dial coronet & bracelet with genuine Rolex components. Whichever way you go, there are many threads on RWG that detail members' previous project watches & be aware that as the price rises, so too does the complexity & likelihood of problems. Rarely, do the high end franken projects go according to plan. So be prepared to deal with the inevitable problems, cost overruns & detours along the way.