automatico

Most people have one even if they will not admit it. Here is mine... it is probably 20 years old...a genuine Movado 'Swiss Watch' with HK case and dial. It is on the third or fourth strap and second crystal. Lost count of the batts. Snap back steel case with plated bezel and a low $$ Swiss ETA movement mounted in a plastic spacer. You see them in pawn shops now and then for around $35 or $40.

"What impresses me the most is the guys that can build a nice rep for $400-1000, one that's aged and looks the part." Agree 100%. A few of us may have the same opinion and have kept quiet but I'll say it out loud: Some of the 'professional' modders/case/dial/parts seller guys are basically crooks and they think we are stupid. IMHO The best 'case guy' I know of is Rolojack...he is honest, but he is busy. Proof: SOLD - 1972 Rolex 1016 Explorer - Watches - RWG SOLD - 1974 Rolex 1680 Submariner 'red' - Watches - RWG A few guys on RWI also have good reputations. To sum it up... You can put a 160xx/162xx DJ or 150xx/152xx OPD together for a few hundred bucks that will 'fool 'em all' (as long as it is not opened up). The 5512/5513/1680 that 'will fool 'em all' will cost a few thousand bucks. The 6538 that 'will fool 'em all' needs to be 100% genuine. Maybe change 'will fool 'em all' to 'they will not laugh in your face'. Ha!

"Who currently has the best 6538 case?" That is a very good question. Short story: Having owned a genuine 6538 years ago (sold it too soon it turns out), I was not overly impressed with the watch in general when I owned it. Q...Why? A1...It was small and did not look much like a 'submariner'. A2...The 1030 is not one of my favorite movements, I like the 15xx much better. Looking back, I miss the price increase I could have profited from but do not miss the watch at all. With that out of the way... I have seen quite a few 6538 projects and very few appear to be genuine, even at first glance. Some were too big and some just had the wrong 'look'. It's hard to explain but easy to see. Otoh, righteous 5512/5513 project watches seem to be more accurate overall...imho. Still the question remains..."Who has the best 6538 case?" My answer is there is really no correct answer, but my guess is the 'best' 6538 watch will be the result of a very good $$ case with good letters/numbers, spring wire bra$$ bezel, a super fine $$ 'gilt' dial, professional $$ 'ageing', and expert $$ detailing and assembly. If you only want a decent 'knock around' 6538 with an ETA or A21 and a decent dial, the same advice applies, but without the $$ symbols. I know this answer is no help to you, but it is a friendly caution about what lies ahead having chased a few of these dreams/nightmares myself. Hopefully someone who knows more about aftmkt 6538 cases will have a much better answer. Good luck!

Tank Francise in 'Walking Dead' motif... Drowned in the ocean, Gulf Shores AL about 10 years ago. It's Baaaak.

Thanks!

Wearing this today, SS/14K 'DJ'... Quickie 'DJ' project with 'Monarch Polfy' case/dial/hands, ST6D mvt, 14K aftmkt bez, sapphire xtal, all steel bracelet. Recent assembly but all parts are from 15+ years ago. 9-10-22 Same watch with Riyi strap hoods, ZRC Aero strap and high mileage 14K buckle... These hoods are good to use on cases with no serial numbers etc. between the lugs like this one. The crown is genuine! Q...Does it qualify as a Frankenstein? A...No! It's a Fronkensteen!! You do not see many 'Monarch Polfy' cases today...

Not a 'wristie' but a 14K 'double back' Waltham '92'... Decorated '1892' series movement with gold jewel settings... This is a low production pendant set 1892 type movement and the cases were special made for this movement. Afaik there were not many movements like this made as most were lever set. Besides having pendant set and only one case screw where most have two, it is 16 size and the majority of 1892 models were 18size. The guy who c/o the watch last month said it is a strange bird, and he has been working on PWs for 50+ years. When he c/o it about 10 years ago he said it was the second one he could remember working on. Yesterday, he said it was still only the second one after thousands of PW jobs. The other one was in a 14K yellow gold filled case. Chances are this watch was sold with the movement already cased (probably sometime in the late 1890s) because of the odd ball movement. Back then, jewelers sold most high grade pocket watches in two pieces...the movement, and the case. Back before there was so much watch trading and case/movement swaps, you saw many top grade RR Approved movements in cheap chrome plated cases etc. because the owner wanted RR accuracy but did not care much about the case or could not afford a high $$ case. The case and porcelain (applied over brass) dial are slightly oversize for a 16 size movement as can be seen in the pic with the backs open. It was made back then for a 'Gentleman' who wanted a 'Big Gold Watch'. Inside the case back it has 'Assayed 14K' = solid 14K gold. 'Pendant set' = winds and sets by the crown. Many RR etc. pocket watches were 'lever set' and had a small lever under the bezel that had to be pulled out to set the time. The bezels had to be unscrewed and removed every time the watch was set. This was the rule with most later RR Approved PWs so the time could not be altered by mistake. The case, both case backs, bezel, crown, and pendant (bow) are all 14K gold. The case is in 90% condition and the hinges are like new and tight. The crystal is glass. The 'Gentlemen' owners took very good care of it throughout the years. Although not a 'Gentleman' of any sort, I've owned it 14 years and also take good care of it. The Model 92 Story - Waltham Watch Company's Model 1892

Rats! The hole sizes are too big to be closed down, especially the hour hand. The profiles are close though. They do look a lot better than the aftmkt replacement hands such as WSO 990 because theirs are silver and the lume starts too close to the holes. Thanks again! WSO hands... STEVE MCQUEEN WATCH HAND FOR VINTAGE 40MM ROLEX EXPLORER II ORANGE 1655 WATCH | eBay

Thanks! The 1570 rlx hour hand hole is 1.20mm and the minute hand is .80mm.

"Nice, what is the size? 38mm?" About 34mm across the case 3 to 9 with the case sides tapering down from there. Here is one on eBay: UNIVERSAL GENEVE Pole router III Men's Wristwatch SS Silver | eBay

All original steel with dark blue dial Universal Geneve Polerouter III on UG signed bracelet (micro rotor)... Paid $50 for it in 90% condition Thursday August 22, 1996. Watch prices back then are hard to believe compared to today. The internet and eBay killed trading days and low prices.

All 'nos' from about 17 years ago. Watch without bracelet has a 14K aftmkt bezel, sapphire crystal and genuine crown. Others have plated bezels with gold filled (?) center links. The 'Jubilee' bracelets were claimed to have solid 8K middle links but who knows? Some I traded away have been worn 10 or 15 years and the 'gold' center links have no wear through. The bracelets have 'gold' caps soldered on the hoods like genuine, not embossed and plated. Cases will take oem spec crystals, bezels, case tubes/crowns and all the tutone models have Seagull ST6D movements. These watches with the same mid cases and dials were also sold back then with new swiss eta 2836, 14K bezels and center links for $750, 18K trim was $100 more. Solid 14K models were around $3000, 18K was about $500 more. Gold was $400 to $500 Troy oz USD back then compared to $1700+ now. The ST6 cases have plastic movement spacers with no case clamp groove and the swiss eta cases have a groove with case clamps, other than that the mid cases are identical. The watches below were sold for $250 with the 8K center link claim, crystals are MG. Q...How did I end up with them? A...Took them in on a debt. Very Good dials/hands... Also have a box of SS models (pic from a previous post)... Some SS models have ST6, some have NN/DG. The ST6 gets no respect but they are really pretty good movements if not full of dirt or mishandled. They may have been loosely copied from the 1950s A. Schild 1361 and are accurate and reliable, but the a/w assembly is a pain to r/r. They started out as a manual wind lady size movement and the auto wind assembly and larger main plate were added later. ST6... AS 1361... Pic from NAWCC forum.

Manual wind Glycine Compressor from 1960s... Crosshatch Compressor crown...

A 1680 was $385 in 1973 and $470 in 1975 according to this list... Rolex Price Evolution (minus4plus6.com)

Welcome to the forum! The cal 1030 and 1035 are pretty good movements...except for one thing: No Parts! Parts for the 1030/1035 are getting hard to find and very expen$ive so it might be better to trade your no date movement for a date movement if you can. I looked on eBay and these movements are priced from $2000 to $3500 or more. Parts are sky high too. Examples: nos calendar ring $590, nos date jumper $95. (!!) If you do not have a parts list (with images) for these movements, get one and write down all the calendar parts you will need before starting a search. In the sane word (outside eBay, Chrono 24, watch shows, and looney collectors) I would guess a good 1035 would be worth around $1000 to $1500 today. You might also find a watch with a rough case/dial and good movement for about this much. One part that is sometimes needed but nearly impossible to find is the rotor bearing p/n 7004 so be sure any movement you look at has a good rotor bearing (rotor not too loose). I have one watch with cal 1030 (6634 OP) and two with cal 1035 (6605 DJ) and to be honest, I will not wear one because if I dropped or slammed it into a door frame etc, the watch can go from a $700 watch (the most I ever paid for one*) to a $2000 watch in a split second because I do not have any 1030/35 parts. If lost or stolen, they are $3000 watches now. I sold off watches and parts over the years until just about all I have left are a few cal 1530 base watches and parts along with a few cal 12xx manual wind models and the 1030/35 examples. Why? Because of escalating watch prices and No Parts, I needed to slim my 'rolexjunk collection' down to only a few models. Do I wear a genuine rolex? Almost never, unless I am trying to sell one. They are for bragging rights, selling, or trading. Replicas, quartz watches, and ETA 28xx powered brands are for wearing. All the above is imho of course. Happy Hunting! 3-22-2023: ** Correction...I paid $1000 in March 2007 for a tutone 6605.

From a post in the Rolex Area 8-13-22 so it will not get buried. List prices from February 1, 1973 in USD. My comments are in ( ) 1002s Stainless Steel 26 Jewel Chronometer movement, leather strap...$225 1002sg Same as above with 14K bezel and crown...$270 1002g Same as above with 14K gold case, leather strap...$460 1016s SS case, 26 Jewel Chronometer movement, leather strap...$240 1019s Steel Milgauss, 26 Jewel anti-magnetic Chronometer movement, leather strap......$225 5500s SS case, 17 Jewel movement, leather strap...$170 (17 jewel movements in the list are not chronometer rated) 5501sg Same as above with 14K fluted bezel and gold crown...$220 5512s SS case, 26 Jewel Chronometer movement, leather strap, WR 200 meters...$268.50 With B207 bracelet...$285 5513s SS case, 17 Jewel movement, leather strap, WR 200 meters...$208.50 With B207 bracelet...$225 6263s 'Daytona Chronograph' in stainless steel Oyster case, white dial with black sub-dials, screw down push buttons, tachometer engraving on black bezel, leather strap...$325 With B206 bracelet...$341.50 6264g 'Daytona Chronograph' in 14K yellow gold, black dial with gold sub-dials or gold dial with black sub-dials, tachometer engraving on gold bezel, leather strap...$575 6265s 'Daytona Chronograph' in stainless steel Oyster case, white dial with black sub-dials, screw down push buttons, tachometer engraving on stainless steel bezel, leather strap...$325 With B206 bracelet...$341.50 7002gf Gold filled case (not Oyster) with 17 jewel movement on leather strap...$185 (used for many presentation/award watches) 1500s Steel Oyster Perpetual Date, 30 jewel Chronometer movement, leather strap...$270 (the 30 jewel number includes jewels in the calendar works) 1500sg Steel Oyster Perpetual Date with 14K bezel and crown, 30 jewel Chronometer movement, leather strap...$310 March 1, 1975 list prices: 1601sg Oyster Perpetual Datejust, steel case, 30 jewel chronometer movement, 14K white gold bezel, leather strap...$535 1601sg Same as above with 14K yellow gold fluted bezel, gold crown, with steel/14K gold ref 313 Jubilee bracelet...$775 1603s Stainless steel Datejust with ref 218 Jubilee bracelet...$435 1611g Same as above with 18K yellow gold case with fluted bezel, Jubilee bracelet...$3000 1625g Datejust with 'Thunderbird' bezel in 18K gold with ref GFM 109 Jubilee bracelet...$2980 1625g With ref 8386 hidden clasp bracelet...$3130 1655s Steel Explorer II with GMT hand and 24 hour marked steel bezel, Oyster bracelet...$455 1675s Steel GMT Master with 24 hour hand and revolving 24 hour marked bezel, Oyster bracelet...$450 1019s Steel Milgauss anti-magnetic 26 jewel automatic Chronometer...$370 (Strap or bracelet not specified.) 1803 Day Date 30 jewel chronometer in 18K yellow gold with ref 7286 18K President bracelet with regular clasp...$3150 1803 In 18K yellow gold with hidden clasp ref 8385 President bracelet...$3300 1803 in 18K white gold with ref 8385 bracelet with hidden clasp...$3550 1804 In 18K white gold with diamond bezel and ref 8385 bracelet...$5240 Same watch above in platinum...Price upon request. 8385 18K President bracelet with hidden clasp...$1850 7286 18K President bracelet with regular clasp...$1700 GFM 109 18K gold Jubilee bracelet for Datejust...$1600 8386 Same bracelet as above with hidden clasp...$1750 14K 19MM bracelet for Gent's Oyster Perpetual Date, similar to GFM 109...$975 Steel and 14K yellow gold Jubilee bracelet for steel and gold Lady Oyster Perpetual models...$225 (No price on Gents steel/gold Jubilee bracelet but price difference in a steel/14K DJ 1601sg on leather strap and same watch with steel/14K Jubilee is $240) (Prices had gone up a little in two years...the 1500 OPD is now $405 but this includes a Jubilee bracelet and the 5500 AK with ref 206 steel Oyster bracelet is $260)

List prices from February 1, 1973 in USD. 8-14-22 Prices for 1655 and 1575 added to 1975 list. My comments are in ( ) 1002s Stainless Steel 26 Jewel Chronometer movement, leather strap...$225 1002sg Same as above with 14K bezel and crown...$270 1002g Same as above with 14K gold case, leather strap...$460 1016s SS case, 26 Jewel Chronometer movement, leather strap...$240 1019s SS case, 26 Jewel Chronometer movement, leather strap......$225 5500s SS case, 17 Jewel movement, leather strap...$170 (17 jewel movements in the list are not chronometer rated) 5501sg Same as above with 14K fluted bezel and gold crown...$220 5512s SS case, 26 Jewel Chronometer movement, leather strap, WR 200 meters...$268.50 With B207 bracelet...$285 5513s SS case, 17 Jewel movement, leather strap, WR 200 meters...$208.50 With B207 bracelet...$225 6263s 'Daytona Chronograph' in stainless steel Oyster case, white dial with black sub-dials, screw down push buttons, tachometer engraving on black bezel, leather strap...$325 With B206 bracelet...$341.50 6264g 'Daytona Chronograph' in 14K yellow gold, black dial with gold sub-dials or gold dial with black sub-dials, tachometer engraving on gold bezel, leather strap...$575 6265s 'Daytona Chronograph' in stainless steel Oyster case, white dial with black sub-dials, screw down push buttons, tachometer engraving on stainless steel bezel, leather strap...$325 With B206 bracelet...$341.50 7002gf Gold filled case (not Oyster) with 17 jewel movement on leather strap...$185 (used for many presentation/award watches) 1500s Steel Oyster Perpetual Date, 30 jewel Chronometer movement, leather strap...$270 (the 30 jewel number includes jewels in the calendar works) 1500sg Steel Oyster Perpetual Date with 14K bezel and crown, 30 jewel Chronometer movement, leather strap...$310 March 1, 1975 list prices: 1601sg Oyster Perpetual Datejust, steel case, 30 jewel chronometer movement, 14K white gold bezel, leather strap...$535 1601sg Same as above with 14K yellow gold fluted bezel, gold crown, with steel/14K gold ref 313 Jubilee bracelet...$775 1603s Stainless steel Datejust with ref 218 Jubilee bracelet...$435 1611g Same as above with 18K yellow gold case with fluted bezel, Jubilee bracelet...$3000 1625g Datejust with 'Thunderbird' bezel in 18K gold with ref GFM 109 Jubilee bracelet...$2980 1625g With ref 8386 hidden clasp bracelet...$3130 1655s Steel Explorer II with 24 hour hand and 24 hour marked steel bezel, Oyster bracelet...$455 1675s Steel GMT Master with 24 hour hand and revolving 24 hour marked bezel, Oyster bracelet...$450 1019s Steel Milgauss anti-magnetic 26 jewel automatic Chronometer...$370 (Strap or bracelet not specified.) 1803 Day Date 30 jewel chronometer in 18K yellow gold with ref 7286 18K President bracelet with regular clasp...$3150 1803 In 18K yellow gold with hidden clasp ref 8385 President bracelet...$3300 1803 in 18K white gold with ref 8385 bracelet with hidden clasp...$3550 1804 In 18K white gold with diamond bezel and ref 8385 bracelet...$5240 Same watch above in platinum...Price upon request. 8385 18K President bracelet with hidden clasp...$1850 7286 18K President bracelet with regular clasp...$1700 GFM 109 18K gold Jubilee bracelet for Datejust...$1600 8386 Same bracelet as above with hidden clasp...$1750 14K 19MM bracelet for Gent's Oyster Perpetual Date, similar to GFM 109...$975 Steel and 14K yellow gold Jubilee bracelet for steel and gold Lady Oyster Perpetual models...$225 (No price on Gents steel/gold Jubilee bracelet but price difference in steel/14KYG DJ 1601 on leather strap and same watch with steel/14K Jubilee is $240) (Prices had gone up a little in two years...the 1500 OPD is now $405 but this includes a Jubilee bracelet and the 5500 AK with ref 206 steel Oyster bracelet is $260. The 1016 with a steel ref 207 oyster bracelet is $360...$100USD in 1973 is equivalent to $650 today) Typos are free. J3/Amc

Low ball 'explorer' from mid to late 1990s... Nos with A21, solid mid links etc. 8-9-22 Nos F437091 from 2005... Swiss ETA 2836-2, sapphire etc. A little bit 'wokky'.

First off, I must say I know very little about Daytona replicas. My 'Daytona Ignorance' makes me I wonder if any of the cartel replica cases from years past were good enough to use? I have seen complaints about them being too thick but other than that, just how good were the cases? A few problems come to mind: 1...Can thinner case backs be found? 2...Will an oem spec dial fit into the case? 3...Will the stem be centered in the case tube? 4...Do the cases have an inner groove for case clamps? 5...Are the crystals oem spec and how are they mounted? I have a few replicas with A7750 movements and they look pretty good to me, but what do I know? Here are mine, 16 posts down... Rolex Wristies thread - Page 143 - The Rolex Area - RWG Also have a few 'sec @ 6' models that have frozen sub dial hands/center sweep hand, with running seconds at 6. They look like the same basic cases as the models pictured in the link.

"Yes it fine for you mate." Thanks! I'll put something up for sale soon.

I've been thinking about selling some parts etc...a couple JMB '1016' cases for example, but do not want to take paypal since The Gov started tracking all paypal receipts over $600 USD total in a one year period. Last year it was $20,000. Since I will sell only in the USA because of hassles in the past with sales/purchases out of USA (packages missing, stolen etc), is it Ok to ask for payment by US Postal Money Order? Buying on eBay using paypal is one thing, but now taking $$ through paypal is no longer worth the trouble to me. I will send items out by US Mail.

Genuine 90% condition 15200 case, dial, hands, crown, crystal... Powered by NOS Mido Commander/ETA 12892. This movement is the same ligne size (12.5) as rolex 3135 and is a drop-in fit, no 'Stilty Spacer' needed. Assembled by RWG member 'Stilty' 8+ years go. I bought it when he left this 'hobby'.

nut

"In my opinion for 1500 builds, fitting a 2836-2 or 2846 (lowbeat equivalent of the 2836-2) is easier than to fit a 2824-2." More Trivia along that line... A rolex 15000 case made for a cal 3035 is very close to the same as a 1500 case so if you run across a 15000 case it will also work with an ETA 2836. Dial diameters are the same and they both have the same 5.3mm crowns and 19mm bracelet hoods. The 1500 takes a 25-117 crystal and the 15000 takes a 25-145. The 15200 case with cal 3135 is different besides having a sapphire crystal. The cal 3135 is thinner than a 3035 or 1575 so the stem may not/will not line up in the case tube when using an ETA 2836. A case made for a cal 3135 will usually take an ETA 2824. An ETA 2836 will usually work in a case made for a cal 1575 date or rlx 3035. No guarantees. I have a rolex 15200 case with a (Mido) ETA 12892, it all fits fine and the 12892 has been out of production for years so they are hard to find but it is the same basic movement as an ETA 2892/2892-A2. The watch was put together by another RWG member who has been absent for years...'Stilty'. He also made the famous 'Stilty Spacer' a CNC made spacer to adapt an ETA 28xx to a rolex case. He sent me the unsold spacers when he left the forum and I put them where I could find them...but I can't find them. They are probably hiding out with my gold Bulova 'Beau Brummel' that I can't find. bidfun-db Archive: Watch Movements: Mido 12892 (ETA 2892) (ranfft.de) movement holders / spacers for franken projects - Watch Repair & Upgrade - RWG Movement spacers... - The Rolex Area - RWG The pic is long gone. 8-2-22...The 15200, about 18 posts down... Rolex Wristies thread - Page 143 - The Rolex Area - RWG

"If you want to remove bezel, again you run the risk of it becoming disposal! Maybe it was designed like this on purpose as they were so affordable to replace! Who knows? If these flaws were addressed prior to production, then it would have been the 99% best 16610!" Regarding the F520117...imho you are 100% correct. Noobmariner replica? - The Rolex Area - RWG I first tried the standard method of removing the 'spring wire' bezel on a noob F520117 by forcing a thin blade between the case and bezel, then trying to pull it off but no go. It felt like something was going to bend, break, bleed, or blister so I resorted to the method in the link above. Another example of what can go wrong with these projects: Here is the mess I recently got into on my 'dewokked' D320840 '16610' a few days ago. It is not a noobmariner type case and also has a spring wire bezel but the fit is not nearly as precise as a noobmariner and it can be removed using a blade between the case and bezel. To remount it, you just make sure the spring wire is in the groove in the bezel and the spring/click are in place, then place the bezel on the case and slowly turn it while pushing down on the bezel a little bit. Sometimes they will just snap on without turning the bezel, so try that first. The flimsy 'aluminum foil' bezel insert on the D320840 case was stuck in the bez with double sided tape and looked super ratty. Since I had already 'dewokked' the case by cutting a little bit of the 'wok' out of the dial opening leaving the inside edge at a 90 degree angle to the dial, what the heck, why not change the bez insert too? Nothin' to it. It turned out to be another headache. As usual... 1...The new insert was a bit too small OD and I glued it into the bez with Gorilla glue anyway just to get 'er done. Ok, finished. But Noooo! 2...The bez mounted a hair too high because the bottom inner edge of the insert rubbed the top edge of the case neck where the crystal gasket is mounted. I discovered this the next day after (!) the glue had hardened so I had to remove the spring wire bezel (again!!) and carefully pry the insert out of the bez. Next, I had to clean all the glue off both surfaces. Lucky for me the bezel was jacked up a hair or two by the case neck leaving a bit of space between the bez and insert around the inside edge. Finally got all the glue cleaned off so I decided to expand the OD of the bez insert a little bit by turning it upside down on the tapered neck of an old green glass Coke bottle (special tool!) and pushed it down a hair using a three inch long section of plastic plumbing pipe with a relief cut in the end about 1mm bigger than the bez OD to center it. This is 'standard watch hacker practice', aka an old trick but no one admits to it. A 'Rolex Certified' watch mechanic friend at a rolex AD showed me this trick many years ago. 3...The bez insert broke (!) where the 'pip hole' was...but it expanded. 4...Dug through my extensive collection (3 or 4) of 16610 type bez inserts and found ONE heavy duty 'slickback' insert (not aluminum foil) that would fit. 'Slickback' = smooth underside, no ridges/steps. 5...Laid the insert in the bez and snapped it over the case neck. No glue this time, I wised up. 6...It was 'jacked up on the case neck same as the first one. 7...Repeat step #2...with caution, not abandon. Skip step 3. 8... Put the bezel in a lathe and thin the insert seat area down a tiny bit to lower the insert so more of the crystal would show above the bezel. The tapered top edge of the crystal should rise above the bezel insert. 9...Glue it, clamp it, wait another 24 hours. Clamped in an old 'BB' crystal press (with bezel and insert on the watch) using Gorilla glue this time instead of epoxy with three 1/2 inch wide strips of motorcycle inner tube rubber bands to apply clamping force to an aluminum press cup that fitted down over the outer edge of the insert and inside the rotating bezel outer wall using thick clear plastic wrap between the press cup and bezel insert to protect it. 10...Success! More or less. After three days. Edited 7-24, I left step 8 out when first posted. All this makes me want to go back to my other hobby... Looking out the window. Artist: D J Rogers