automatico

Imho they are not going to be easy to find at a fair price (like ETA can be if you search them out) and parts will either not be available (restrictive factory policy) or hard to find for a newly introduced movement. There is one on eBay for $298.00 + $13.50 shp and that seems NOT to be much of a bargain...to me. Sellita is another swiss made ETA clone that is reliable and a few supply houses are now stocking parts. Q...Why am I concerned about parts availability? A...Because parts rule the mechanical watch world. Just ask any vintage rolex watchnut. Ha! Something else...I believe Citizen/Miyota made a mistake by not making their 9015 to ETA 28xx dial and hands spec. Q...Why? A...Because they are widely available, reliable, sell for $135.00 or so, and parts are available. Here is some info on the Newton... Soprod Newton P092 | Watch movements – A passion (watch-movements.eu)

'5512' "This one is a beauty! Can we see more?" Thanks! I put it away after taking the picture and I'll dig it out after Christmas and take a few more and put them on the post with the first pic. '16003' "Outstanding." Thanks! I looked for it yesterday and can't find it. I made sure to put it where I would not lose track of it.

Thanks for the reply! "It was not gen like bezel const, but I was able to buy the parts to make it gen like." My sapphire 16610 types all have the crystal pressed into a plastic gasket with bezels held on by 'spring wires'. Not oem spec but it works. I can't tell they are made this way by a casual look-over but a '10X exam' would probably let the cat out of the bag. I have a few GMT/submariner types from 2014 or so and they might be made differently, don't know. "It is WR to 3 atm which is all the tester I have access to will do." I use a Bergeon 5555/98 and it is also made for 3atm but supposed to be Ok to 6atm. I put a Schrader valve in the cap in place of the pressure relief valve and pump it up over 90 psi using an air tank and it has held together so far. Before that I had a Bergeon 5555 and the dome cracked using the same method. The 5555/98 has a thicker dome wall. Something else I use the 555/98 for now and then is to blow crystals out of rlx cases to keep from prying on bezels. Remove the movement, allow for a slight leak at the crown (trial and error), and pump 'er up. I sometimes use a Bergeon 5011 air pump to pop pressed in MG crystals out of watches with plastic gaskets. It also takes the fun out of removing crystals in front loaders with acrylic crystals like the old dress type Benrus, Wyler, Omega Rustmasters etc. Here are the specs on a 5555/98 and they also have a 5555/10 but they sure are proud of it ($$). Air pressure system. Tests up to 3 ATM (safe to 6 ATM). Plexiglas cylinder with double seals. Dimensions: 245X150X310mm. Stable cast metal base. Opening diameter: 64mm. Capacity: two watches. Made in Switzerland. Waterproof Tester Bergeon 5555/98 (jewelerssupplies.com) Waterproof Tester Bergeon 10 Bar 5555/10 (jewelerssupplies.com) Waterproof Tester Upgrade Kit Bergeon (jewelerssupplies.com) Bergeon 5011... Bergeon - 5011 - Watch Crystal Air Pump | Jules Borel & Co.

" Last weekend when I went hunting I wore a MBW 16610 in lieu of a gen 16800." Were the MBW 16610 watches as good as their 55xx models? I do not know anything about them. I wonder if they might have been the same case/dial/bct as 16610 models from other modders/TDs from a few years back...WM9 for example.

Although these people were probably all wearing genuine watches. Couple get #rob in #losangeles during #dinner - YouTube CBS 3: Two Rolex Watches Valued at $37K Stolen Off Pedestrians b Three Armed Robbers in Philadelphia... https://t.co/yA39cosnSE Saw a guy at a watch show years ago wearing a rlx Prez without a clasp...all screw links. I asked about it and he said: "I live in NYC." 'nuff said.

Steel Movado 'BOLD' chronograph. Big. Ugly. Heavy (187 grams). Mistreated. Gets no respect. Kids laugh at it.

"...I wouldn't get the 3230 movement, I'd downgrade $50 to the asian 2824-2. For $278." That is very good advice...unless someone wants to wear the watch upside down without the case back or with a see-through case back to show it off. Ha! Imho the rlx 31xx clones and Asian clones in general are a gamble at best, especially now with slow/no deliveries from Asia and NO PARTS for most genuine watches, much less clones. Otoh, I have seen new Asian 31xx clones for around $200 USD so if you need anything it will cost around $200+/-. Need a balance assembly? Only $200. Need a reverser? Only $200. Need that odd-cod screw you flipped into space? Only $200. I know some genuine rlx 31xx parts will work but that is a slippery slope. How long before you decide to make the clone 'mostly genuine'...for 'only' $1500? It happens. Common swiss ETA 28xx are getting more expensive but at least they are still available and parts are not too hard to find...yet. Swiss made etaclones are much better that Asian etaclones imho but parts may be a problem for many of the swisserta clones too. A few US few parts supply houses offer Sellita parts but that's about it for now. I would much rather have watch with a dead swisseta than a watch with a dead Asian eta/rolex clone. Otoh, I have used Asian etaclone 28xx autowind assemblies on swiss 28xx etas with good luck. Not had a whole lot of luck with the running part of Asian etaclone movements. I will admit some are better than others though. Btw... I put a see-through case back on my 'shortcut 1655' with rlx 1570/75 so if I drop under the radar it will not get tossed in the trash along with the rest of my repjunk. Hopefully. Note...I wear it right side up. Most of the time. 🙃

MBK '5512'...

'F-stein '1655' with 1570/shortcut GMT conversion, aftmkt case, dial, hands, Mary fold oyster etc...

Bulova 'Royal Oak' from 1981 (P1)...

Thanks Freddy, I never saw one for sale before. The ad says: "...has a quiet ticking sound, we noticed every once in a while for a second or two it made a soft noise that was different than ticking sound." The other noise is the electric winder. Some older battery powered clocks have a short mainspring that will run them for a few hours and an electric motor winds it now and then. This clock would not run when I got it because the battery leaked on the movement so I put a new Seiko continuous sweep clock movement in it.

I've had this clock for 25+ years and it came from a Pan Am exec's desk after the airline went out of service on December 4, 1991. Their last flight was from from Bridgetown, Barbados to Miami, Florida. Pan Am was absorbed by Delta Airlines. I worked in 'ramp service' for Delta Airlines in Atlanta, Georgia for a couple days until they found out I was too young...the summer between third and final year of high school. My supervisor said to come back when I was old enough and they would put me to work. I never went back. Another Bulova from the same era... A 14KGF 'woodie' from 1972 with a wood bezel insert and wood inserts on the original bracelet. Not many around now.

Nuq... "Try searching for an early MBW band too, they were REALLY good." Yep, they are good. I have two from MBK '1680' watches and one has hollow mid links and the other one has solid mid links. Other than that, they are identical and both have rivets where the clasp cap connects to the bracelet at the 'Z' blades (like OEM) where many replica/aftmkt bracelets use spring bars. You can install rivets but the flip lock lever needs to be spaced out a little and/or bent a little where it rubs the rivet heads. Some bracelets with rivets have a groove cut in the F/L to clear the rivet. MM... "I'm selling 93150 Italian made bracelets over at RWI." They look very good, I read about the 'back-outers' in the RWI thread. A long time watch dealer/trader told me 30+ years ago: "There are no friends in the mart." He was 100% correct...no deals with be-backs or pay-you-laters. CA$H now, order later. I still have 70+ unsigned oyster type bracelets waiting on a b-b since November 1999. Part of them...

Wylie E. Coyote 'going down for the last time'... Wylie E. Coyote dial in a submariner style case with DG 21. Head East - Never Been Any Reason - Live @ RIBCO - YouTube

NOS F520117 swiss 2836 'noobmariner' from 2006/7, still wrapped in plastic...

"I've never seen a rep pass muster if it had a rep dial." Yep. 'Refinished' dials are the tell on high grade F-steins. ...and my (much) lower class ETA-reps.

Paul/Abay '5514 COMEX' from 15+ years ago...

There is no problem buying genuine vintage if either: A: You know what you are doing, B: You buy it from a reputable source who knows what they are doing. A...Extremely hard to master. B...Very few and very, very far between. They might have been honest when vintage rolex watches were 10% of today's prices but maybe/probably not now. These guys can make an extra $10K or $20K on just one or two watches if they do not mind being just a little bit crooked. Imho. "There are plenty of people who know enough, or who can learn, to tell what is correct or not." Maybe yes, maybe no. I stared trading rolex watches in the early 1970s, have bought and sold a few hundred and there is no doubt many of the better Frankensteins being put together now will easily fool me. My guess is they will fool just about anyone and they are out there. Take my average F-stein '1680' for instance...put the genuine movement, dial, hands, and crown in a professionally detailed/aged 'super replica' 1680 case with a proper era genuine bez insert, bracelet etc and it will sell as 'genuine' anywhere. I have not been to a watch show in a few years but there were a couple 'Supersteins' at the last show I attended and the 'dealer' told me what they were only because I have know him for years. The next guy will never know. The only hang-up would be an 'official rlx repair shop' might snag it for mismatched numbers on down the line...if they agreed to work on it. They are turning down many (most?) 50 year old watches. A friend of mine was wearing an old tudor sub that he paid a high price for at the same show and when he priced it to the dealer, the dealer guy told him it had a fake case. He asked the guy how he knew and he said "Because I sold it to the guy you bought it from." Small world. Otoh, 'a case' in point'... I have a nos no hack 1570, nos 1016 trit dial/hands, nos 25-22 crystal, nos case tube/crown etc...everything except the case. I also have the original chronometer certificate for the movement along with the case number it came in. But it is more or less impossible to find a new or like new genuine case. So...Case Closed. "Take "expert" opinions with a grain of salt." Agree 100% (In my 'expert' opinion)

Quartz MM 'Frankenstein' in 14K Bulova case from 1953 with dial by SII (Seiko) with 14K A-tron buckle and croc strap.

When I saw this: It reminded me that I still have a few DW cases from his first and last offerings. Before I say anything about the differences in the first DW cases from 8 or 10 years ago compared to the last five from maybe 5 or 6 years back, I will say these cases were under rated when they were available, probably because there were many other options available such as MBK watches complete with movements for around $400 and 'Ruby' cases for maybe $450+/- so DW cases were not really considered to be premium cases back then. But now they are being reconsidered. Why? Because there are not as many choices now and the DW cases were really very good. Remember the DW 'Daytona' cases that were considered 'so so' years ago and Hot! now? Same thing. Imho. I used a DW case for my '1680' with 1570 and genuine dial because it just looked the part of a genuine high mileage watch with slightly rounded case sides etc. They just have 'the look' and besides that, they are precision made and a genuine rlx 15xx DATE movement with 26.5MM dial fits perfectly. OEM spec case tubes and crowns fit also. Details... 1...The case necks where the crystal fits down on the case are just a hair smaller than OEM spec and you need to go with an aftmkt crystal to find one that fits. 2...They came with 'spring wire' bezels...at least all 12 of of mine did. The crystal retainers/rotating bezels will also work on 55xx projects because the ID of the crystal retaining ring is very close to OEM spec but as I said, the case neck (and by necessity the crystal) are slightly out of spec. I used an aftmkt 'tropic' style GS crystal (no cyclops magnifier) on one '5513' project with an ST bezel kit and it worked fine but on my '1680' project the spring wire bezel and stock crystal were left on the case. 3...The case backs came with two different thread diameters for some reason. Original OEM case back threads are 30.9mm OD and all my earlier cases came this way but the last five cases (from his last batch) had 30.4mm threads. The cases and case backs are identical in appearance and only the threads are different. This does not matter at all if you leave it as is but an OEM spec case back will not fit. 4...Some cases are fully signed, some are only partially signed, and a few not signed at all. Three were fully signed but the engraving (not laser etching) was not very deep and one had 'Stinless Steel' instead of 'Stainless Steel' between the lugs. Some were marked '1680' and others were marked '5513' but they were identical in specs and all were made for 26.5mm dials and 15xx date movements/ETA 2836/46 so if you wanted to make a '5513' using a 5513 marked case you would still need to use a rlx 1570 date movement or ETA 2836/46 and a 26.0mm 5513 dial will be a hair too small for the dial opening. From: https://rwg.cc/topic/168977-building-an-mbw-sub-shortcut-rlx-156070-gmt-conversions/ etc... "The cases are all 1680 spec cases so if you have one with 5513 stamped on it, a 1520 (with date wheel spacer) and 26mm 5512/13 dial will mount up in the case but the dial will be a bit too small for the dial window and will also be too far from the dial seat. What you end up with is a 26mm dial in a 26mm dial opening with the dial mounted about .8mm below the dial seat and nothing holding the dial in place except the dial screws. I did make a very thin spacer out of aluminum to fill in the space on one DW '5513' but it took a long time to make the spacer in a lathe because it was so thin and flimsy. I had to finish it up in an old 8mm WW type 'bezel chuck' made in the 1920s. WW = regular watchmaker lathe. 'Bezel chuck' = a chuck that looks like a steel wheel with concentric grooves cut in it. It will expand or contract a few mm to accommodate small, thin bezel rings etc." "DW cases are a low $$ alternative to expensive 'genspec cases' but you will need a genspec bezel kit, crystal, tube, crown etc. Also...as I have mentioned many times before, the DW cases have rounded case sides like a DJ and not flat like a submariner. They could be sanded flat on a disc grinder or by hand but it would take a lot of careful work. One good thing about the rounded case sides is they make the watch look like an old 'high mileage' example with a storied history after they get sufficiently scuffed up. I have seen a few genuine 1680/5512/13 with the case sides rounded from years of wear and numerous polish jobs so there are genuine examples with rounded case sides in circulation." "DW cases are high quality but the sides are rounded like a DJ, not flat, giving them an 'aged' look. The lug holes may be a hair too close to the lug tops when drilled out to 1.3mm or so. The case necks are a hair too small and it is hard to find a 1680 crystal that fits exactly. Making up a 5512/13 is not as bad because T19 crystals come in many sizes (GS crystals for example). DW watches came with 'spring wire' bezels and need a Clark, ST etc. bezel kit. The engraved numbers are Ok but many are unmarked. Some DW cases have undersize case back threads...oem is 30.9mm, some DW are 30.4mm. This is Ok as long as you have a set." DW'1680' project with 1570 and Lemrich dial...

Fine looking Commando! '1680' with DW case, 1570, original Lemrich dial...

Hamilton Electric 'Vantage' cal. 500 from around 1958...

"absolutely amazing quality on some reps nowadays.. and also amazing crappiness." I agree and imho... The "amazing quality" is in the cases, dials, and bracelets. The "amazing crappiness" is in some of the various clone movements. A top quality watch (appearance wise) with an improperly designed/assembled/oiled 'oem lookalike' clone movement with no parts availability is going to be a problem sooner or later no matter how good the watch looks on the outside. The clone rlx 3135 is one example of trouble on the horizon with some versions being worse than others. A clone 4130 may not be quite as bad, I do not know because I have not read much about them. Clone ETA 28xx...not too bad because replacement movements and some parts are available on eBay etc at relatively low $$. Swiss ETAs can also be used but their prices are rapidly rising. The Miyota 9015 may be an alternative but dial foot location, hand sizes, and DWO can be a hassle. The APRO etc with the 9015 is probably Ok but I am only guessing, never had one. Another example... James Bond big crown Submariner case 316L Miyota 9015 movement sapphire crystal | eBay