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"... if you want to sell the gen or replica with the 15xx GMT conversion for 3K I'd be ready and willing!" Thanks, I appreciate it. Btw, the '1655' has two problems that have bothered me... 1...The date flips part of the way at midnight but is always centered by 8 or 9am. 2...It is not a hack movement and afaik all 1655 models were. This has no effect on the way it runs but it has always bothered me a little bit. It has a folded oyster and 'lume dot' SS hand so it mimics a 1973 or a year or two later model. Earlier models had straight SS hands, no lume dot. The 1655 was introduced in 1970/71 (I've seen both dates claimed) and by 1972 all 15xx were supposedly hack movements. From what I have read, 15xx hack movements started showing up in the late 1960s on some models. Who knows for sure? Not me. Over the last 10 or 15 years with genuine rolex movement and parts prices escalating yearly, I just cannot recommend putting a 15xx movement in a project watch. This is mainly because I have genuine cases, dials etc. for the extra movements stored in cans. I am very slow putting watch projects together and this summer I'll be putting an Asian GMT conversion in a nos ETA 2846 to put in the '1655' case after the 'shortcut' GMT movement is removed. Until then, the '1655' will still be together to protect the movement. My J$W '1655' case is a problem though because it is such a nice case that it 'deserves' a genuine movement like I stated in the first post. The question is...would the J$W case with a genuine 1575 GMT movement be worth as much as the case, dial, hands, movement etc. sold one at a time? Here is a guess at what these parts would sell for: 1...Genuine 1575 GMT hack movement in 90% condition with fresh c/o and new mainspring...about $4500 today going by similar movements sold on eBay. Very few have been for sale with one on eBay now for $4950 with 'blistered' plates, number 224974170550. One in pretty good condition sold for $4850 on April 7, 2022 and it probably would need to be c/o. Mine is low mileage and looks like new plus c/o with new mainspring and all the genuine GMT parts are nos. Genuine Factory Rolex 1570 1575 Caliber GMT Complete Watch Movement w/ Date Disc | eBay 2...Used J$W case complete in 90% condition with genuine case tube and crown...$750. 3...New J$W dial and hand set...about $300. 4...Aftmkt (Mary) fold-oyster with genuine clasp and WSO 580 hoods...$400. 5...Labor (free to me but not on projects put together for sale)...$250. Total...$6200. Imho it would be very, very hard to get $6200 for the finished watch. "I have couple frankens with great cases and dials that I'd love to put gen movements into. My rationale here is to invest in what I have instead of buying more fakery." Nothing wrong with that as long as the individual parts hold most of their value. Today's high prices might make it a bit risky if prices happen to fall. Looks like gasoline prices are holding up though. Ha! Regular gas is $4.28 around here. Ha! Not so funny.

After putting about a dozen 'vintage Frankensteins' together using genuine rolex 15xx movements since 1997 ('explorer 1016'), I have made an 'Executive Decision': No More projects using genuine rolex movements. Why not? 1...Because (imho) it is a major waste of time and $$ even when taking into account that I can do all the work myself. Anyone paying someone to put one of these watches together will have to pay more, sometimes a lot more. 2...Frankensteins are expensive to begin with because of the high cost of genuine movements, movement parts, and service, especially today. 3...To be 'worthy' of the genuine movement these projects more times than not end up with high $$ cases, dials etc. instead of lower $$ cartel parts that most of the time can be modified to pass muster. 4...Where can you go to sell a Frankenstein with a genuine movement when you need $$ etc? You might be able to sell it to an RWG etc. member and get most of your 'investment' back but not always and there is the chance the watch will end up being sold as 'genuine' after it passes through a few owners. Not good. So...my last Frankenstein project using a genuine rolex 15xx movement is going to be taken apart...a '1655' with an aftmkt GMT conversion. The movement will be going back in the watch it came out of (1603 DJ) and an ETA 2846 with a China GMT conversion will be put in the case. The '1655' with a genuine movement might sell for $3000 and it is basically fake! but the DJ will probably sell for $3000 (at today's prices) and it is all genuine. After the '1655' is taken apart I will have one F-stein left...a DW 1680 case with a rolex 1570/75 and genuine 'Mark 1' Lemrich dial. I put it together in March 2011 to keep the dial and movement clean and it will stay that way for now. I have a J$W '1655' case and rolex 1575 with all nos GMT parts so the case will be sold or an ETA put in it. The GMT movement will probably be sold at a watch show etc. All the basically useless information above was presented for only one reason... My (free and worthless) advice to anyone contemplating a vintage 'four digit' Frankenstein with a genuine rolex movement should realistically price it all out before starting the project and decide if it is worth the $$ and effort to go through with it. A rule of thumb on projects like this is after it is all added together...add 30% or 40% just to be safe. Also...take into account that when I bought the parts for all of these Frankenstein projects, a rolex 1520/1560/1570 movement could be purchased for $500 to $800 (often as a running watch) and a very good aftmkt case and dial was around $1000 or $1500. Now the same three components will cost $3000 to $4000 not counting labor. One example...I paid $575 for the complete running 1603 DJ in May 2015 that supplied the movement in the '1655' project and the only thing wrong with it was a rusty stem stuck in the main plate. It needed c/o, a stem, and a mainspring, about $25 my cost.

First, here is my '1655' with the outer track markers slightly inside the reflector (rehaut)... Replica dial, hands, case, bracelet, and hoods with rolex 1575 and 'shortcut' GMT modification. Second, here is a genuine 1655 currently on eBay with the markers spaced inside the reflector similar to mine... eBay item number 265240566116 Here is another genuine watch with the markers spaced away from the reflector a little bit.... Here is one with the outside markers right up against the reflector like the vast majority of genuine examples... My question is...has anyone else noticed genuine 1655 watches with the markers spaced away from the reflector like mine and the two genuine examples? I figured the markers being spaced away from the reflector (on mine) was a sure-fire way to tell my watch was not genuine at a glance (among other things of course). The dial is usually one of the first things that reveal the pedigree of a watch. Hands for a 1655 are also a major 'tell' and it took me a long time to find the (replica) hands. Evidently the spacing of the outer markers is not the same on all genuine 1655 watches. Btw...my watch looks a little better than the picture (imho). It is supposed to mimic a 1973 model so it has a folded oyster and 'dot' second hand, 'straight' second hands were mostly '71 and '72.

I have lost three friends in a little over a week. Nanuq makes four. Never met him but he always answered my messages and treated me with respect. Rock on 'nuq.

"I’ve always only ever had gen watches, including gold Calatrava..." My life story Ha!... Have owned only one nice Patek, a mint condition manual wind cal 23-300 'Golden Ellipse' on the original integrated bracelet. I never wore it but my impression of the watch was it was a quality case/bracelet with a fragile, fancy movement (case work no better than the Gubelin above imho). I paid gold scrap price for it from a gold and diamond dealer in April 1998 and traded it even for a nib rolex 16233 with factory diamond dial in November 1998. Never owned a manual wind Daytona but owned a few chronographs with the V72. Sold them all in 1996/97, too cheap, too soon. Q...How did I get tangled up with replicas/Frankensteins? A...When RWC went full tilt 'No Parts For You!' I sold most of my modern 'trade and sell' rolex watches (quick set and/or sapphire) and kept a few vintage models, then went with replicas/steins to scratch the itch. Before that, I traded into and out of quite a few replicas at flea markets etc, mostly low grade examples. Still buy a genuine vintage rolex now and then if the price is right aka cheap. Last time I wore a genuine rolex for more than a day or two to check it out was probably 25 years ago. Now use a Bergeon 'Final Test' so I do not have to wear one. Last watch purchase from a rolex AD was May 1998. Next time is Never.

"I am pondering the purchase of a 18kt gold 6263 case from Phong. Dial would come from MQ. Have to see about the rest. Any input on this?" Not being a 'Daddy Downer' here...this is a bit of friendly advice from someone who has traded and worked on watches for close to 50 years: Forget about it unless you can find one already finished at a fire sale price so the other guy takes the lo$$. Why? All you will really have is an overpriced $$ fake gold case, a $$ V72 movement, and an aftmkt dial no matter how much it cost you to put it together. Gold at today's prices is not a good buy imho. Example...I have an 18K (29 grams) replica rolex Prez/DJ case and it is worth about as much as an empty case as it would be with a running swiss ETA movement and aftmkt dial. With a genuine 3135 and dial it would be worth the gold price of the case and the going price of a genuine 3135 and dial, not what a genuine example would be worth. Besides that, I got the case when gold was between $300 and $400 per troy oz, can not remember the exact price. Otoh you will not get hurt on your steel Daytona because: Steel is IN. Steel is a LOT cheaper. The rest of the components are probably worth close to what you paid for them. The Bottom Line is...replicas are not worth very much in the real world, usually just the value of the components added together. For RWG members, replica and Frankenstein projects are almost always a $$ losing endeavor...but we are Maybe buy a genuine vintage 18K Omega Constellation, Longines Admiral or something at a fair price and put it on a high quality crocodile strap with a gold buckle. For example... Like new Gubelin automatic from the early 1970s, all original, all genuine, all 18K gold. Or go cheap... Not like new, not original, not genuine, but all 14K gold including the buckle. It gets more complements (plus a few laughs) than any gold rolex I have ever owned. How much did it cost? Less than $200USD.

"Out of curiosity how much "stem bind" do you have? The cases I use to make these from are for a 2824 movement..." You didn't ask me but my answer is...quite a bit of stem bind. I used swisseta 2824 plates with 2846 running gear and drilled/threaded the case to use a regular 6.0mm case tube and genuine crown. A 2836/2846 was too thick on the dial side and the stem lining up in the tube was worse. I've worn it quite a bit in the last year and have had no stem trouble. I do not wind it or set it very much though. I got two cases in February 2016 and have not used the other one.

"I have used lacquer thinner. Seems to dry fast with no residue..." I still use 'One Dip' on pallet stones and hairsprings but only outside, not inside the shop. I have used it on many occasions but not on watch parts. Back in my Bondo days we called it '3608'. Earl Scheib paint shops used it to wipe cars down after lightly sanding them before applying their 'grease jobs'. "Grease jobs' = enamel paint jobs. They actually looked pretty good depending on car body preparation. "I'm Earl Scheib, and I'll paint any car, any color for $29.95. No ups, no extras,"

JSebWC... Thanks for the info. I have a few DJ cases made for Miyota clones and ETA 2836/46 so that is probably what I'll go with. Some do not have a case clamp groove and none have lug holes bored all the way through the lugs...plus I'll have to whittle out a bezel for it. While I'm at it, maybe cut a small relief on the back side of the case around the case back. Btw...your '6610/1016' reminds me of going to watch shows in the late 1980s/early 1990s when a genuine example with a dial and hands similar to yours would have trouble selling for $2500 because of the dial and hands. Now a set of dial/hands like that raises the price. Here is one for $20K! eBay item 324665228580 and one for $26K!! 203912798724 A highly detailed '1016' case with the relief around the case back:

Specs on Seiko NH35: Seiko (SII) Caliber NH35A Watch Movement | Caliber Corner Size specs on rolex 3135: Caliber 3135 measures 28.50 mm in diameter and 6.00 mm in height. See if you can find the stem location from the top of the movement to the stem centerline on the internet and that will be a good start toward finding out if they will interchange. "It would be cheaper to find a rep case that will fit a 3135 instead." Good advice. If you already have a case made for a Seiko NH35 you might get someone to loan you a non-running 3135 clone movement to try in the case, depending on where you live (shipping difficulties, cost etc). Being new, you may have to pay a deposit on the movement though. Remember what a famous politician once said: Trust, But Verify. Ha! Welcome and Good Luck! A 'watch guy' takes a look at a 3135: Watchmaker's Corner: Inside a pre-owned Rolex 3135 Movement | Watches | Xupes

JSebWC: "JMB 1 case set." I have a question about the 'JMB 1' case...will a 2836/2846 work in your case? I am asking because I have a '1016' made with one of two JMB cases purchased in February 2016 and I used ETA 2824 main plates with ETA 2846 balance etc to lower the beat rate because a 2836/2846 would not work in the case as the stem would not line up in the case tube. It made me wonder if maybe a 2836/2846 would work in the earlier cases because I am planning to stick another '1016' together and do not need the hassle of converting another movement. Make that converting two movements by the time it is done. I just wondered if there were two versions of the cases for two different movements.

"I'm still undecided if I like the radium burn on the dial, I may remove it or redo it, probably should just leave it alone." I would leave it like it is because it looks the part...like a '50 year old watch'.

"Not sure what we are going to do when (not if) the already sparse pool of vintage Rolex components dries up." ST has a good selection of high grade generic rlx 15xx movement parts. They are not cheap but they are available and they have reversers, something that used to be oem only. Plates, rotors. balances etc will always have to be oem though. Caliber 1520/1525/1530/1565/1570/1575: Star Time Supply "Most of us here most likely do wear a quartz watch for practical reasons and are in these mechanical timepieces purely because of the esoteric appreciation we have for the traditional timepieces and for the nostalgia very much like those that own classic cars but still use their Toyota Camry for every day driving!" True. I've worn various quartz Bulova Accutron II watches for the past few years but one of them developed a stripped hour wheel and would not keep time. The hour wheel is plastic (!) and the Geniuses at Bulova USA decided to stop selling hour wheels and/or complete movements a while back so that ended the love affair with the Accutron II. Mechanical Bulovas...to my surprise, the 'Devil Divers' of the past have made a comeback. I have a few originals but they need to be c/o, crystals etc and besides that, they are selling for 5 or 6 times what I paid for them so if I went to the trouble to 'restore' one it would probably go up for sale. Since I always liked them and wore one in the past, I've been keeping a lookout on eBay and snagged a new one for a little over $200USD last week. A brand new 'old' watch for $200 with a warranty. Hard to beat a deal like that. The watch was advertised as 'factory refurbished' but it was brand new and still had plastic wrap on the clasp and case back. Btw, the DD has a Miyota 821D and they are rugged and cheap. The Bulova Oceanographer Devil Diver watches hands-on (horbiter.com)+- Hell of a Comeback: Reviewing the Bulova Oceanographer Special Edition “Devil Diver” | WatchTime - USA's No.1 Watch Magazine

"i am lucky since raffles is distanced some blocks away from my place so hands galore." Raffles is good to deal with and I sent a note to them a few days ago looking for a set of 1655 hands to fit a rolex 1575GMT movement and they replied they do not stock them so I am keeping a lookout on eBay for someone to offer an improved set of aftmkt hands. I have a set of ETA 2836 '1655' type hands coming from WSO and even if they do not fit the rlx movement, they have closer to correct lume slots. I remember someone mentioning there were some omega hands that look like 1655 hands but I do not remember what model they were for and they probably would not fit a rlx movement anyway. "I also bought an horotec set of broaches plus a swiss hand tool and fear no evil…" I have a set but have broken so many that I use needles with 3 or 4 flats ground on them most of the time. I have ETA needles, rlx needles, omega needles, DG needles etc. Ha! One problem when broaching H and M hands is if you need to remove the center hub to enlarge a hand, then the hand tends to flop to one side, especially thin hands. Fitting hands, glossy black dials, and hairsprings are huge aggravations imho. It's not much of a mystery why quartz watches outsell mechanicals 1000 to 1. It is because they are so easy to fix...

"Amazingly, it's been a lonnnng time since the diver was introduced." True. Before today's common dive watch became the norm (Zodiac, Blancpain, rolex etc), there were the 1940s 'canteen' types, Elgin and Hamilton for example. Another is the Panerai. I have a pair of 'sterile' bead blasted steel homages to the canteen watch but never owned a genuine example. Next time I run across them I'll post a picture. 1940s Elgin USN BuShips Vintage Military Canteen Watch | United States Navy (unitedstatesarmynavy.com) Spotting a Fake Elgin Buships Canteen Diver + Info | NAWCC Forums

4-18-22 I decided to list a few various GMT hand hole sizes because of all the hassles I have had trying to match them up. No guarantees because there might be an error..or three. No sizes listed for a 24H hand on the Seiko because they do not offer a GMT model that I could find. The 24H hands on an ETA 2893-2 are listed at 1.8mm and 2.50mm. Might be depending on the watch brand? The 24H hands on an ETA 2836-2 with Asian non adj GMT conversions can vary but mine are 1.8mm. Accurate aftmkt hands for a 1655 with rlx 1575 GMT movement are very hard to find. For example, WSO has them but they are silvertone where the genuine hands are white and the lume slots are too wide and too long. Their '1655' hand set for an ETA 28xx is much more accurate but still the wrong color. Btw, I have some nos genuine 1655 hands and the 24H hand arrow is RED, not orange. ?? My 'shortcut 1655' has a very good WatchLume hand set but they are out of production. After chasing these 'lost cause vintage projects' for many years, I would advise anyone without a bankruptcy wish to go with a cartel 1675 or 1655 and detail it best they can. For movements, I vote for ETA 2836-2 or slower beat 2846 with Asian non-adj 24H mod first and the DG 3804 next. I have a GMT and exp II with DG 3804 and they have been Ok for 8 or 9 years but they probably only have about 6 months running time on each one. For a high $$ late model GMT project...maybe go with an ETA 2893-2 GMT but they cost $300/$400 now. Or...you could greatly simplify it all with a 5512/5513 ETA 2846/2879 project. No 24H hand, no date, no major problems, no major $$. Otoh, my 'shortcut 1655' is still running fine and I am pleasantly surprised. DG 3804 clone ETA 2893 – Horology student (horology-student.org) Rolex 15xx GMT 24H 1.9mm 12H 1.2mm Min .80mm SS .20mm with long tube ETA 28XX 24H 1.80mm Asian mod 12H 1.50mm Min .90 SS .25 ETA 2893-2 24H 1.80mm 2.50mm ?? 12H 1.50mm Min .90 SS .25 DG 3804 etc 24H 1.95mm 12H 1.5mm Min .90/.95mm SS .20mm +/- Seiko NH35 H 1.50mm M .90mm SS .21mm

"Tudor dials "generally speaking" don't have Beyern or otherwise Rolex marks." The genuine Tudor dial pictured in my post above has a small Tudor shield emblem stamped on the back of the dial with the letters LP stamped under the shield...they do not appear to be engraved. I can post a picture if needed. Do not know what LP stands for though.

"...today's crazy price will seem like a bargain this time next year." Sad but true. That is about half of what my relatively low mileage 2007 SUV is worth...with a full tank of gas. Otoh, it pays to shop around, I gave $20 for this genuine ETA Toot dial (excuse the fuzzy pic).

"What gen is the inspiration of this 'homage'? I'm guessing some Rolex vintage sub?" Good question. Since it is billed as a 'Homage 1953' there were not many dive watches back then. I almost bought one but passed because I probably would not wear it. I have a couple old Zodiac Sea Wolf watches but they have the most aggravating snap on case backs ever devised. Here is some good info on 1953 dive watches: 1953: The Year of the Dive Watch - Crown & Caliber Blog (crownandcaliber.com)

After lining up the pivots on a plate and bridge, I use an oversize plastic or pegwood 'toothpick' to put a little pressure on the bridge to hold it in place and while holding slight pressure on the bridge, see if everything spins Ok. If it is Ok, start the screws and tighten them evenly a little at a time and check every half turn or so to see if everything still spins. If something binds up, it is usually easy to find the trouble. Usually. I am extra careful with pallet fork pivots and usually try the PF bridge a few times before setting the fork in place to make sure the bridge does not hang up on an alignment pin or something. I broke a PF pivot on an old rlx 1210 a while back because the bridge did not seat evenly and I did not notice it until it was too late. I had another PF that someone gave me but have been holding off on finishing it up because I need to run a smoothing broach through the alignment holes so the bridge will not bind up next time. Smoothing broaches do not have any cutter flutes on them and will smooth the ID of a hole in a plate without enlarging the hole. A friend gave me a new 1210 PF pivot so I'll replace the broken pivot and be even on parts...one broken, one free replacement, and the broken one fixed free. It does not usually work out this way, especially with rlx parts nowdays.

Note... Timelord beat me to the punch while I was slowly 'typing' my response and I agree with him 100%. I do not have much to add but here it is: Sad to say there is not much good news... Back before gold prices went crazy, there were high quality 14K and 18K aftermarket Prez cases with proper partially hooded lugs available with ETA 2834-2 movements for around $1200/$1500. Not now. Now they are $4K or more if you can find one. Besides all that...some of the current offerings are stamped 18K but are really 14K, 12K, 10K, or less. Mostly internet stuff. Genuine cases will be as much or more than most aftmkt cases today and are often polished to the point where they are getting pretty thin by now. Q...How do I know this? A...I have owned a few of these cases in the past and still have one high quality Italy made 18K example...also have a rlx cal 1556 hack movement waiting for a case (for years). Q...Why has a watch not been put together using the aftmkt 18K case and 1556 movement? A...Because the aftmkt case has a dial opening that is too large for an oem rolex D-D dial. Many of the aftmkt cases were made this way because they came with an ETA 2834-2 day/date movement to start with and the 2834-2 with the day at 12 and date at 3 is slightly larger in OD than an ETA 2836-2 or rolex 1556, so the dial is about 1mm or more larger in OD and an oem spec rlx D-D dial falls through the dial opening. eBay item number 133504620076 shows one of these movements and you can see the spacer mounted on the outer diameter that makes it bigger so the D-D dial ends up being too big along with the dial opening in the case. An inconvenient fact of (replica) life. Bonus tutone info: Some of the tutone bracelets being offered today (and in years past) advertised as having 18K or 14K 'solid gold' center links really have center links that are only 12K, 10K, or 8K 'solid gold' and by law 8K is considered to be 'scrap gold metal', not 'solid gold' in many countries. I still have a few 20mm tutone DJ type stainless steel bracelet hoods from years past with '8K gold' strips soldered on them like on tutone 'jubilee' bracelets. I never tested the strips but the hoods do have solid 'goldtone' strips soldered on them with oem type spring bar tubes soldered inside the fold and I paid for '8K gold' when I bought them. Many cheapo aftmkt tutone hoods will have the 'strips' pressed into the hoods from the back side and goldtone plated. Mine have not tarnished in 10 or 15 years out in the garage so the strips may be 'solid gold' after all. Also have bracelets to go with them with supposed 'solid 8K gold' center links...they have not tarnished either and I never had one where any sort of plating on the center links wore through and some have lived a hard life. So...who knows? All the above is just to clue you in on what to look for if you find an aftmkt solid gold case. Typos are free. Good luck! 4-14-22 Btw...I might have a steel DJ/Prez type case with partially hooded lugs if you decide to go with a steel case, 'might' being the key word here.

"I’m a little tired of seeing Mercedes hands." Me too! You see one, you've seen 'em all.

Welcome! I do not know much about modern rolex (I am a vintage rlx guy) but asking about buying a modern rlx F-stein on your first post might not get an answer. I would advise reading up on them if you have not already and decide which one you want...Clean factory etc and then look on the various replica forums and see what is out there. Here is a good place with lots of pictures to start gathering info: https://www.reddit.com/r/RepTime/ The place for replica watch discussion (reddit.com)

"Rolex Submariner 16610. The Rolex Submariner 16610 is the most perceived of the Submariner watch series." Agree. The 16610 is the classic of the sapphire models and when many people think 'Submariner' the 16610 comes to mind. The 'most perceived' Submariner of my generation was probably the 5512/13...or it could have been the 1680. For me it was the 5512/13. The 'most perceived' Submariner for the senior members of the current generation might be the 'fat lug' or 'thin lug' ceramics as the 16610 fades from memory. What did I buy in the early 1970s? A steel DJ, picked out of a showcase filled with Submariners, GMTs, a couple Daytonas, and a Milgauss. I was a sharp cookie back then.

Ronin and Nanuq make some very good points! No doubt many Bonafide Vintage Watch Dealers will omit important details or outright lie about a watch they are selling...laser repair, movement and/or dial swap etc, etc. Otoh, the vast majority of RWG members did not lie about any watch they have sold or traded, genuine or replica. So...who are really the bad guys here? It might not be us. Nanuq: "We call them “rivet counters”, the people so obsessed with from-the-factory perfection that no detail is beneath mention." If it passes the 'rivet test' what's next? Do the Riv Ctrs want proof the vehicle still has the original oil in the crankcase? Probably, if they are as nutty as watchnuts. "Hey! are those rivets in your pocket or are you just glad to be here?" Ronin: "There comes a time when aftermarket parts are simply a necessity." Agree 100%. I have noticed ST and a few others have a whole line of high quality movement parts for rlx 15xx, 30xx, and 31xx movements. It was bound to happen since 'The Emperor' cut parts off and who can tell the difference anyway? "Hey! that stretchy oyster has a fake rivet in it!" It's all about the rivets. I have only one used vintage rlx watch that I know for sure is all original except it has an inscription on the back. I've had a few in the past but stopped asking. After all this, I am beginning to wonder if my JMB '1016' case is 100% original. He said it was.