automatico

Something else...the F520117 case uses a screwball crystal made somewhat like genuine except the dimensions are off and a replacement is more or less impossible to find. I have been looking for a crystal for mine for a year. If the Euromariner uses a genuine spec crystal you will be a lot better off if you ever need a crystal.

"I have steady hands and have done a fair amount of model car/plane building so I think I can handle gluing a marker to a dial without too big of a problem." GS Hypo cement is just about the same thing as model cement...Testors etc. GS Hypo etc makes "cobwebs" when you handle it so be careful it does not leave a string on the dial. Loctite is made to "travel" after application and may get on the dial. It only sets up where there is no air.

"So you think I got duped eh? I'm pretty sure this is an ETA. A watchsmith was, too." I do not know, I hope not but mine was not swiss. It had the rolex look-alike rotor, black screws, and Eta markings too...I paid for swiss but did not get swiss. I do not know what yours is. I just looked at 12 new swiss made Eta movements in my shop including 2824, 2836, and 2846 and none had black screws anywhere but in the autowind assembly. If some of these decorated movements are swiss made Eta, maybe they were decorated, had black screws and signed rotors for some brand and the rolex style rotor was added before being installed in a replica rolex. Who knows? Not me and that's for sure. Pam111 has them, black screws and all, with a stick on rolex tag on the rotor: http://www.pam111.com/product_info.php?cPa...products_id=947 Can not tell about the Eta markings though.

"And one other thing: would a watchmaker with a parts account be able to get a gen crystal much cheaper? It strikes me that they would balk at paying hundreds for crystals when they know they're just plastic " They were somewhere around $20US each when I bought the last three. Our "official" account is now DOA but I have saved a lot of parts over the past 20 years. Most "rolex watchmakers" with a rolex parts account are so serious about their superior knowledge and skill ( ) that they will never stoop so low as to sell a crystal that might end up on a replica. In reality, most of them are parts changer hacks that act like royalty. I am being extra nice today. As for me, I am a knave hack holding out for the highest price and make no bones about it. Why do I hold out for the highest price and not give a friend a break? Because I sold a lot of genuine rolex stuff way too cheap in the past and now I will not discount (what I see as) virtually worthless watch parts that no one really needs. The USA has what is known as the worst rolex parts distributor in the world (rolex Dallas TX) but dealers in other countries will usually order and sell parts to someone they know. Ask around.

"Is there a noticeable difference between a gen crystal, and a $5 piece from Ofrei, say? Apart from the $100 difference." Not a whole lot as long as the fit is the same and it is a dry land watch. I would not trust a no name $5 crystal in water though. Name brands tend to be a better bet...GS, Bestfit, Sternkreuz etc...although I have seen a few Sternkreuz models that were not a good fit. Crystal number 12 (5500AK etc) for instance, maybe they are better now. I have a few genuine 25-21 rolex crystals and they are in sealed plastic bags. The catch when buying "genuine nos" rolex crystals is that up until a few years ago they came in unsealed paper envelopes with rolex trademarks (in the USA) and fake envelopes and crystals are everywhere. I also have some nos crystals in paper envelopes but I bought them from rUSA so I know what I have. If I needed one for a replica, I would probably go with generic.

I had a similar watch two or three years ago and the movement was from Seagull with Eta markings and a rolex style rotor. It ran fine and I traded it away but it soon came back with the winding rotor loose in the case. The rotor came off the bearing race where it was pressed on so I pressed it back with some Loctite 'stud and bearing mount' and it has been all right for over two years. The etaclone Seagull movements seem to be Ok. Here is a teardown on one: http://forums.watchuseek.com/showthread.php?t=216945

If it is like this one: http://www.silix-prime.com/images/upfile/rols175-2.jpg I may have one. Let me know by pm.

"Good old days, lots of fun times on the old board. But after it`s all said and done, it`s all about the people. My friends and brothers from another mother are here." I was on the old EZ Board RWCC and TRC from the start (member 43) and it seems that most of the members from back then have left the scene. There may be a few of them on RWG but they have probably changed their screen names like I did. I remember the early TZ regulars after RP brought it over from Singapore...ei8htohms, BrandonS, Terry Russell, foie gras, Mycroft etc. One of my favorites was Watchbore. He was a watch industry insider who posted in the third person and told it like it is and when he did...the swiss watch worshippers would blow a fuse. Here is a sample...a Watchbore post from 8-5-02: "The latest figures from the Swiss Watch Industry Federation reached Watchbore a couple hours ago. They show that for the first time in eight years the average price of the Swiss watch has fallen. Compared to the first half of 2001, the value of exports dropped 4% from January to June 2002 while the volume of exports rose slightly. Export values of high-grade (gold watches) dropped more than 10%. Exports to the six main markets, which account for 60% of the value of exports, are down across the board. USA -7.9%, Hong Kong -3.2%, Japan -2.5%, Italy - 2.8%, France -9.8%, Germany =- 13.2%. The overpriced Swiss watch you allude to was a product invented in the late eighties under the guise of traditional watchmaking -- which did not exist before quartz watches. The quartz shock saw a secret revival of the Swiss watchmaking cartel first instituted in 1932. This cartel fixes prices of mechanical watches according to category, forbids price competition, promotes the manufacture of obsolete styles and mechanisms, monopolizes distribution channels, controls the trade and consumer press, and encourages all manufacturers to copy one another and to write exactly the same drivel about their products. The success of the watch brands depends entirely on price maintennce. If they fail to keep raising consumer price tolerance, the house of cards could collapse very suddenly."

"There was a time when some gen ETA watches could be had for $175-$250..." Yeah, "Paul" had vintage rolex subs with genuine Eta movements for $159 including shipping. There was a catch though... There was no inner bezel and the outer bezel had the retaining ring running in a shallow groove in the crystal. The crystal was glued to the case and cracked sooner or later and the top of the crystal and bezel fell on the floor. They looked real cool for a few days though. "However the quality of finish and accuracy today is far beyond the "old" days." You got that right! "Now we just need the old prices, on the new reps!" Fer sure!

Longines 340/350 had an outer ring gear 40+ years ago except it ran on a central bearing. I have owned a few and they were Ok. Still have one in a mystery dial watch similar to this one: http://www.bostonprivatejewelers.com/item.asp?itemid=2330 The Longines 340: http://www.ranfft.de/cgi-bin/bidfun-db.cgi...mp;Longines_340 Imagine how much it will cost to get a CB movement repaired since the parts are exclusive to CB. I can imagine $2000 rotors...just because they can. That is why they make stuff like this.

Most that I have seen were drilled deep enough that the plug tip on a single or double flanged springbar will go in all the way to the shoulder. A few have been too shallow and had to be drilled out a little more by hand using a drill bit in a pin vice. As long as there is enough depth to hold the springbar securely, everything is Ok. plug = the part of the springbar that telescopes in and out of the springbar tube plug tip = the part that goes into the lug

"Well the the UK, conterfeit products are treated almost like stolen property, and if the copyright owners get a hold of the watch they will "take care of it", potentially even sue you for it." It's not that bad in the USA...yet. It may be before long though...all copyright owners have to do is get together and bribe a few high level politicians with expensive "gifts" (a watch or two) and "campaign contributions" (a stack of $100 bills). Many politicians are extreme low life characters. "The AD I would imagine is a different case because he is an independent who doesn't own the copyright, he doesnt want to deal with the hassle so will most likely turn you away after embarassing you." Most good AD clerks can size up a customer in about 5 minutes...buyers are courted and tire kickers are rushed out the door. Anyone wearing a replica is probably not seen to be a buyer but I think most sales clerks will still be polite...while they rush them out the door. There are exceptions of course. I would guess a very accurate replica would pass for genuine as long as a knowledgable clerk did not examine it closely and the replica owner kept his mouth shut about replicas. The last thing a replica wearer should do is brag about their watch being a replica in an AD. Independent Mom and Pop watch stores are sometimes not too bad because some may have a replica or two behind the counter..."these belong to a cousin".

If I wanted a genuine late model explorer I, it would have to be one with M at the end of the serial number. M = the later 3130 movement The 3130 would be a much better choice than the 3000 movement imho. Otoh... If you find a watch with cal 3000 at a bargain price...get it. (it would have to be a bargain for me to get a watch with the cal 3000) Since replicas of the late exp I are so good, I would not consider a genuine watch unless I just had to have one. You could buy a replica exp I from a forum "collector" or member and wear it while you are looking for a genuine...you might change your mind about genuine.

Just for fun: All submariners are assumed to be fake. No date subs have a better chance of passing for genuine at a glance. You can always pass off a genuine sub as a replica. You get the same questions every time: First question: Is it real? (if you say it is a replica) Second question: Were did you get it? Third question: How much was it? Fourth question: Can you get me one? If you say its real: First question: How can you tell? Best answer: Let's assume it's real. If they press you about it, say: If it was not real, you could not see it. Well worn (showing a lot of wear) rolex replicas/frankensteins will usually pass for genuine if the dials, bracelets and cases are good to start with...especially steel DJ and other "low profile" models. For example... I seldom wear a genuine rolex but have been wearing a frankenstein 1016 since October made out of a genuine 16220 DJ case (bored out for oem spec springbars), rolex 1520 hack movement (can't see it so the mvt does not matter), good HK dial made to fit the rolex movement, GS #22 spec crystal, bezel sized for the crystal, hollow link HK oyster etc and no one has ever noticed it except for a lady in the post office who told me she liked it because she could tell time from 10 feet away. She looked close at it and said "I never saw a rolex like that before." What gives it away: wrong reference number on the hoods bracelet link screws do not pass through the threaded side of the links (the hole is blind) clasp has 6 holes instead of 7 A lot of watch traders and amateur "collectors" have looked at it and no one ever noticed. As for modern rolex replicas, steel DJ, exp I, exp II, GMT, no date sub, are good bets. Vintage 1016 are good too but some do not have springbar holes all the way through the case.

"It is also possible that Rolex's latest models (The Deepsea and POSSIBLY the GMT IIc) have bracelets made of 904L though." I always thought genuine rolex watches were made out of highly compressed Bullsh**. Maybe I was wrong... http://forums.timezone.com/index.php?t=tre...ev=&reveal=

I drilled a Bulova 11BLACD movement plate to accept rolex 1530 (1570) dials and it was not too much of a job. Just be careful not to drill into anything important. I made the template out of aluminum with holes to match rolex dial feet and marked the exact 3 o'clock position with a dot. You can make a template using an old dial too. 1...The template was placed over the Bulova movement plate (dial side) with the 3 o'clock mark centered at the stem hole. 2...I used a drill bit in a pin vise to start holes in the plate using the template for a guide. 3...Remove the template and finish drilling the holes in a drill press or by hand. Be sure the movement is held securely in the case so the dial will always be pressed against the movement or the hour hand might rub the dial.

Specs on a 3035 date movement... 12.5'' (28.5mm) diameter 6.3mm thick Specs on a 3000 no date movement... 12.5" (28.5mm) diameter 5.8mm thick If the case is made for a cal 3000, a 3035 will not fit properly because the stem will not center in case tube and the casing screws may not fit in the case groove (you might use screws and clamps though). If you remove the date works and spacer ring to bring the thickness down, the hour wheel and canon pinion will probably be too tall, causing the hands to be too far away from the dial. The double stack 3035 hour wheel might rub the dial with the date works and spacer ring removed. I have never tried this so I do not know.

I have a similar steel quartz Carrera with "40 Years of Legend 1964 - 2004/Jack Heuer Limited Edition" along with Jack Heuer's autograph on the caseback. It has a Miyota/Citizen MFS10 working chronograph movement (mvt cost is about $30). The solid caseback is numbered 1129/1964 (maybe they all are) and I would guess these watches will be basically trouble free for a few years...as long as the crown, pushers, and bracelet hold up. The case and bracelet quality seems to be pretty good and the brown dial and bezel look fine with crisp letters and numbers. It has a claimed to be sapphire domed crystal but I bet it is MG. The bracelet end links are stamped sheet metal, not SEL like the one in your pictures. It came with inner and outer boxes from a local watch trader who knew nothing about it but the price. Here is what it looks like except mine has "chronometer" on the dial where this one has "automatic". Black dial with bracelet... http://www.thewatchery.com/watch.asp?Luxur...CJ&src=AACJ Brown dial with strap... http://www.thewatchery.com/watch.asp?Luxur...013.FC6206&

HEV spring-loaded on this model depresses & releasees when pushed... It is made bassackward. Should pop out from inside...not in from outside. Water pressure will open it and flood the case. Inside pressure will build up and not release (until the crystal pops out). A replica is a replica. A replica of a replica is a genuine replica. bassackward = Southern slang

Michael Kobold ...the same guy who illegaly entered a secure area in the Pittsburg Int'l Airport in December 2002. ...the same guy who said "I really did believe I was a constable" No one is that stupid, he was not even a US citizen. ...the same guy who was found guilty of lying to US Customs agents. ...the same guy who used to peddle his (now $3000+) watches for a few hundred bucks on the internet a few years ago. ...the same guy who should have been deported. ...and the same guy who is a Watch Hero in the current Watch Time magazine, no mention about his past of course. No Kobo' fo' me. If I wanted a current "USA made" watch I would buy a used RGM Pilot etc. If not a USA or swiss brand...maybe a Seiko Flight Master automatic. If swiss...maybe a used rolex 1016 Ex, 1603 DJ, 5500 AK etc. ...or a "modern classic" like a sapphire no date submariner etc. "modern classic" = removable bracelet hoods, holes in the lugs etc. By Torsten Ove, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette After a split verdict came in last night, Findlay Constable William DeForte Jr. cried in relief while his co-defendant, German watchmaker Michael Kobold, smiled and talked to reporters. Both seemed relieved that their trial in federal court was finally over, even though the jury convicted one of them. The jury found Kobold guilty of lying to U.S. Customs agents last year when he used a badge to skirt security at Pittsburgh International Airport. But the jury found DeForte not guilty of two counts of lying to the same agents about how Kobold acquired the badge, which DeForte had given him. Kobold, a sharp-dressing 24-year-old German citizen who runs Kobold Watch Co. in Robinson, could spend a few months in federal prison and will almost certainly be deported to Germany. But he seemed unfazed by the verdict and said he'll continue to design and sell his line of watches. "I would have moved back [to Germany] anyway," he said as he left the courthouse with his lawyer, Stanton Levenson. "I think I'm fine. I don't think I'll be destroyed." Kobold said he was pleased for his former friend. He said DeForte would have had a much harder time finding work had he been convicted because it would have meant an end to his law enforcement career. DeForte, 32, had no comment after the verdict, but he was obviously overjoyed as he hugged his family and friends. "Merry Christmas," he said as he left the courthouse. His lawyer, Leonard Sweeney, said the criminal justice system worked the way it was supposed to. The government said both men told repeated lies to Customs after Kobold flashed a constable's badge stamped with DeForte's ID number to bypass security at the airport on Dec. 8, 2002, and escort his brother to Gate 61 for a flight home to Germany. When Customs Inspector John Rupchis stopped him, he held up the badge and said, "I'm with the state. I'm a Pennsylvania state constable." County police Detective Patrick Miller arrested Kobold the next day at his office in the Parkway Industrial Park. The case was turned over to federal authorities, and a grand jury indicted Kobold. DeForte was later indicted on charges of lying several times to Customs agents about how Kobold got badges. Kobold's defense was that he thought he was a deputy constable because DeForte had told him he was. He maintained that stance after the verdict. "I really did believe I was a constable," he said. Testimony revealed that Kobold wore a badge and carried a gun in helping DeForte serve bench warrants in 2002, when the two were close friends. The pair also shopped at a North Side uniform store together in June 2002, where Kobold bought badges stamped with DeForte's number. DeForte said on Friday that he did give Kobold the badge he used at the airport and admitted he was at the store with Kobold in June. But he said he didn't see Kobold buy badges that day and had told his friend not to buy any because he wasn't a constable. "I gave Mike one badge," he said. "I did not give or purchase any other badges for Mike." His testimony differed from that of Jay Smith, proprietor of H.A. Smith & Son Uniforms, who said DeForte used his credentials to help Kobold buy badges. DeForte told Customs agents that he had heard "through the grapevine" that Kobold bought badges on his own. He repeated that story in court, but he couldn't explain Jay Smith's testimony or why his name appeared on a receipt. Kobold wasn't the person who wasn't a deputy to go out on arrests with DeForte. Two of his friends, both Germans who attended Carnegie Mellon University with him, said they also tagged along with DeForte, Kobold and DeForte's two real deputies, William Crowell and Travis Shaheen. Kobold will be sentenced March 19. http://www.ca3.uscourts.gov/opinarch/041800np.pdf

http://forums.watchuseek.com/showthread.php?t=216945 http://www.tz-uk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f...p;sk=t&sd=a

"So the Asian 21j movement is junk. When it dies it is cheaper to buy a new watch -or- By a new 21j movt and if you you have the knowledge and skill swap the mov't -or- have a watchsmith (if you can find one) swap the movement." Most Asian 21 jewel movements are not junk at all (imho), what gives this impression is poor factory QC or careless storage and handling before and during being installed in the watch. I have had my share of trouble with them but it seems they are getting better (probably better QC) and I have a few that keep time within 10 or 15 seconds per day. Another thing that causes them to be considered "junk" is their low price. Years ago when Eta 2824 were $45 they were not considered to be very hot either...now that they are $150+...they are the greatest. http://www.pmwf.com/Watches/WatchTools/Gen...reMovements.htm Citizen/Miyota 8215 and Eta 2824 comparo: http://www.17jewel.com/two.html If I was going to practice watch repair, I would buy a couple cheap manual wind watches first and work up to automatics, then automatics with date. A Shild and Eta manual winds are good to learn on. I will say the Miyota 8215 clones are hard to work on compared to an Eta 2824 etc or Sea-Gull ST6 or ST16. The ST6 is made in the traditional manner with the automatic assembly screwed to the movement like an Eta 2824 and the ST16 is similar in appearance to the harder to work on Miyota 8215 clones (CH/DG 2813, 4813 etc) with the auto winding reverser etc under the main plate. The calendar works on the ST6 are easier to work on than any of the Miyota clones including the ST16. The ST16 is made like a Miyota clone but has a Seiko "magic lever" type winding system that is not buried in the movement like a Miyota clone making it easier to work on. swiss made? The ST16 is modified by a few swiss brands and then claimed to be "swiss made" and renamed Claro-Semag CL888...Zodiac for instance. Sometimes a watch company outright lies about it and gets busted: http://forums.watchuseek.com/showthread.php?t=144328 http://forums.watchuseek.com/archive/index.php/t-144328.html More stuff: http://www.tractionink.com/watch_wiki/inde...title=Main_Page http://forums.watchuseek.com/showthread.php?t=144328 http://www.tractionink.com/watch_wiki/inde...Tianjin_Seagull

"I've found a site that has some 5500 cases (Air King Explorer) and other sites that have 5500 re-dials. I understand that the rolex movement for the 5500's was a 1530 movement. As I don't have the money for a genuine movement just yet, what would be the eqivalent Eta? And most importantly would it fit the case?" The 5500 Air Kings are just as cool as the 1016 and an added bonus is there are not near as many of them. The main differences are the 34mm case, 19mm bracelet, and not being a chronometer. No date chronometer watches with the 1570 use the same case as the 5500 AK except for the case numbers...same crowns, crystals, and bezels too. An Eta 2846 (21600 bph) may work but I never put an Eta in a 5500 case to see how it fits. An Eta 2451 might work too. They are easy to find and do not cost much. http://www.ranfft.de/cgi-bin/bidfun-db.cgi...wk&ETA_2451

"I'd love to see some pics of your 1016 if you have some." I do not have any pictures...I am better at posting (aka running my mouth) than taking pictures. "I've had one of these in the pipeline for about a year, but my dial and hands don't match so I haven't started wearing it yet. I can't decide whether I ought to have them both re-lumed or whether I should just get a new set that matches." If the hands are not as white as the dial, I would just get new hands. If the markers/numbers are faded and the hands are white, it is not as easy to match them up. Sometmes genuine watches do not match either. I bought a new GMT in May 1991 and did not wear it but left it in the box (I bought it at dealer cost to resell). A couple years later I looked at it and the hands were still white but the dial markers had turned yellow. Some posters on TZ etc say sunlight and/or moisture fades the markers but this was not what happened here, maybe it was bad tritium mix, who knows? The watch came out of the AD's safe and had never been on display or in sunlight.

Best place to find a case is probably eBay, watch forums, or watch shows. I made up a 1016 "Frankenwatch" a few months back using mostly rolex parts from here and there. The will be differences in the prices of the various parts but this is probably a pretty good estimate. "Stilty" made one using an Eta with genuine dial and bracelet: http://www.rwg.cc/members/pics-vintage-Fra...l&hl=Stilty Here is what I used: 1...genuine 16220 case, L serial number from around 1990 ($150US from a forgotten seller on the internet 5 or 10 years ago) No bezel. 2...genuine case tube and 24-603-0 crown ($0, came with case) 3...aftmkt bezel ($30 iirc) Genuine 1016 bezels are very expensive and hard to find so I used an aftmkt bezel. 4...GS PA-464-64C crystal ($12) This crystal is identical in spec to modern flat top rolex 22 crystals. 5...genuine rolex 1520 movement ($750...later model 26 jewel, hack, 19800 bph) It looked OK but I cleaned and oiled it and installed a new mainspring ($10) anyway...no labor cost as I did it myself. Add about $100 to have it done. 6...aftmkt dial from HK (about $110 iirc) It looks very good, has Singer stamped on the back etc. 7...aftmkt hands ($15) 8...gaskets (about $4 for all three...case tube, crown cap, caseback) 9...aftmkt submariner springbars ($2 each) 10...leftover rolex case screws ($0) No movement spacer is needed. 11...aftmkt stem ($3) Total cost was about $1100 If you use an Eta of some sort, the cost will come down to around $450 plus having it cleaned. No bracelet included, only the timehead. Replica 1016 from various sellers are a much better buy but some have non spec crystals/bezels, no lug holes, 28800 bph movements etc so modification costs will add up. It is a good idea to use a case that will accept genuine spec crystals because sooner or later you may need one. assembly notes: A...The bezel was a bit undersize ID so I had to machine it to fit the crystal using a lathe and a tool bit cut to work in the cramped space between the chuck and bezel. B...The rolex 22 crystal top and sidewalls are thicker than a DJ spec crystal so a DJ spec bezel will have to be machined to fit. This bezel was supposed to work with a genuine 22 crystal but it was too small ID for the 1016 spec crystal. It was a little bigger ID than a DJ though. C...Rolex case reference 1018 is basically a (vintage) 36mm no date DJ and a lot were used to make fake 1016. They use rolex crystal # 21. D...All 16000 series cases (made for acrylic crystal) and 162000 series cases (sapphire) have the same case neck and dial OD size but the genuine spec flat dial and 1520 will only work in 16200 series cases made for cal 3135. The stem is about .4mm lower in a 3035 (used in 16000 cases) so the 1016 dial and 1520 will not work in 16000 series cases. I never tried to make a 1016 using a 1600 series DJ case but a 1018 case is a perfect fit for a 1016 dial and hands...if you could find a 1018. E...The springbar holes had to drilled out to accept submariner springbars and the springbars had to be shortened a little so they will not stick out of the lugs. F...There is quite a bit of difference between a genuine 1018 or 1600 DJ case and the genuine 1016 of the same era. The 1016 used the thicker crystal and "O" cross section caseback gasket where the 1018/DJ cases used a thinner crystal and flat caseback gasket. The 1016 was rated WR to 100 meters and the 1018/DJ was rated to 50 meters. All 16200 series cases are rated to 100 meters. G...You will need to use a slow beat Eta movement (21600 etc) as the genuine 1016 runs at either 18000 or 19800 depending on the date it was made. Can be hack or non hack. H...Try to find a 16200 series case with lug holes because it is a real hassle to drill out lugs with blind holes and very easy to screw the case up. I...Be sure to check the case and caseback threads and make sure they are OK and the caseback will screw on and off easily. J...With the caseback removed, rock the case on a flat surface to see if it is badly warped...I have seen a few that were pretty bad. A little is OK and can be caused by polishing etc but be careful and do not buy one that is very bad. Be careful...there is a lot of junk out there.