mbjoer

I have precisely the one you show here. And that is not even the best version. Yours is Ver1 and there is a Ver3 (at least) out there by now. The difference between V1 and V3 when I bought, was bringing the rep from 97% to 99%. Additional cost $100. And that may be the flip-side to the better reps. I think the new reps are at times very expensive. Or is it just that I am a noob with no historical reference??

Great thread here, although the headline has become somewhat watered out by now. So here is my take on it all: 1) Even if you could have done so, do NOT file a PP dispute with any dealer who has a good reputation here, even if not a trusted dealer. Using the forum is a far better alternative and it seemed to work its magic again here. 2) The world is not divided into trusted dealers and scammers. I was scammed by a dealer who is a trusted dealer on the other 3 fora, but in the end the pressure from the fora sorted the issue, and I did get my watch in the end. Whilst you mostly would be best served using the trusted dealers on the fora, not all are trusted on all of them, and my own experience has been that the best one I have used was not even trusted here until recently, when she became apprentice dealer. Sometimes it is worth it taking advice from fellow members as well as the fora as a whole. 3) Pictures. This whole discussion is almost surreal. I have never dealt with either of the dealers mentioned here, so I have no personal axe to grind. BUT to complain about copyright here must take the price as one of the funniest statements on a forum dedicated to copying what others have copyrighted. Are these statements serious?? Having said that a statement is made that one dealer sent out lower quality watches than advertised. That is a far more serious accusation and worth knowing more about. Any details?? 4) General expectations to dealers service level. I think it is fair to say that even the best companies make mistakes and in some cases when dealing with internet based sales, these can seem like a scam to the individual who does not get what he/she expected. Here is where the fora are fantastic, because they provide an option to get your case heard. That goes for dealers too, just read the extent to which PWC and Daytona4Me use the fora to promote their business/images. However don't forget that the English language can be a barrier to some of the dealers here. In this case it seems to have worked for the OP, and it certainly did in my case when I had an issue some time ago.

Now another question is, how many versions are there out there? I have seen 4: Puretime a3135 $328 Puretime a2836 $228 ASIAN7750 a2836 $188 and Watchwoot a 21j $99 I guess that the last 3 are all the same. But are they?

I have seen that Puretime has a black ceramic Submariner: http://puretimewatch.com/index.php?productID=1728 Is there a gen version of that yet? And how accurate is this one then??

This really is a nice watch. I have a quartz gold/black Flyback which also is well made and good looking. I have been eyeing the Timewalker for some time. Really wanted the gold/black as well (because the sunken DW would be less of an issue with black on black), but now I have seen the Stainless steel on the back I don't know. I really do wonder why the factories do not send their products to someone who can read before they make such blatant mistakes. Perhaps a Steel with white/gold dial?? Great to get these reviews. I hate it when I only discover such mistakes when it is in my hand.

On the MBW dial the 2 is out of place. So from the pictures the Cartel is a clear winner. But often holding the watch demonstrates things which are not so noticeable on a picture.

Always wear my watch loose on my left and have no destros. My experience is that it really depends on the specific watch. Most cause no problems. My worst offender is the Roger Dubuis Easy Diver. Perhaps just try some other models if tight or right hand use or destro does not do it for you.

I wonder why this one does not exist in quartz. Seems an obvious one.

2009 .... That's meeeee! And gosh this forum has taken a lot of my time - and money!! But its been fun and I even managed to learn a lot about these magnificent little creations...

Reading this review made me buy this one from Mark @ Timesshop. Ordered on eveing of Dec 7, and received this morning (Dec 15). Very quick. A few comments on the watch (without pictures. There is no way that I can improve on what you already have shown...): The watchhead is even more beautiful than your pictures show. Seems impossible, but it's true. The play between brush and polish works really well. The dial numbers are elegant (which they may not appear to be when blown up on a macro here). And the case-back is just fantastic. Super attention to detail. Mine has an Asian 2892 movement. Very smooth sweep. Jumps to start by a mere shake. Date changes on the dot of midnight. No idea how accurate it is as I only just received it. The crown looks perfect, but is a bit stiff. It seriously needs the AR and probably the lume as well. As I am in Europe I may go another route for this than your watch. I have not had it pressure tested, but suspect that the design would allow for swimming with it. The watch is about the size of my gen Omega and IWC, both of which are of some age and which were my only watches before I went mad in the rep-world. Nice and classic, but seems a bit small now compared to the other collection. All in all it really works as a Vacheron. Or rather it will when Domenico has done his bits to it, the way Vac and The Zigmeister did yours. So thanks for bring it to my attention.

...or not... Item removed!!

At this stage I should warn you against the Portuguese chrono. The movement on this one is so bad that it ought not to be sold, but unfortunately the dealers still do, and I have yet to hear of any that warned a potential byer that it might be problematic. Other then that, I too agree with the statements above.

Almost no-one outside the fora and (possibly) ADs would know and notice small differences between a good rep and the gen, such as lume and AR. However everybody can tell when the watch shows great attention to details that are beautifully made. One of these is lume on sports watches. So if a rep has a better lume than the Gen has out of the box, all that is noticed is that you have a nice watch. After all (as has been mentioned above) even Gens can be improved on.

Any good rep shades out there??

No, Toad is right. This movement is very problematic - to a point that I think it should not be sold by reputable dealers!! If you absolutely want it, look up what has been written about it here. And be prepared to spend additional money (lots...).

Thanks. It's always interesting to come across unusual brands, and I for one had never seen these before.

If you are a member on RWI, post your experiences on the thread. Dealers do develop over time - in both directions. So it is good to know if this one has come good.

The Egi. The size is laughable, but if it was shrunk significantly it would look good.

The message should not be "don't ever swim" with a rep. Rather have it pressure tested, and you may be pleasantly surprised how good some are. If your watch fails a pressure test it may not be a design fault, but purely the lousy manner in which the reps are put together. I have two $70 watches (Rolex and Breitling non-chrono) that both have been tested to 5 atm and had no problems. I also bought a Breitling Skyland chrono advertised as waterproof to more tham 50m which could barely take 2 atm. This has subsequently been waterproofed by Domi and is fine. I swim with that regularly. However this leads me to a general complaint: All too often this aspect of the watch is ignored. And for sports watches like the PAMs above being water proof is essencial. So I really think more pressure (no pun intended...) should be brought on dealers to do a test before they ship from China. If they can spot the problem watch out there it would be a lot easier and cheaper than having to do it here. Also this should be a key aspect of any review of sports watches here. To have to take off your diving watch before you swim is a huge tell, whereas lume-dots are not. Yet I frequently get the impression that reviews focus the other way round.

It certainly is. Will be interesting if someone here gets one. - If so, let us know.

Why bother? The rep is 99% there at a fraction of the sale price.

Looks good. But can the strap swim??

Seconds @ 6 have a bad reputation for good reasons. The 7750 is basically built for sec @ 3. Technically it is possible to shift the secs to 12 or 6. But the ROO, Rolex Daytona and IWC Portuguese have demonstrated that the rep-factories are not quite up to the task. So to make a succesful AP chrono the starting point has to be the movement.

I would be in on a quartz version. It is strange that it hasn't been done ages ago....