freddy333

Ditto Ziggy. The Swiss are literally handing their business model over to the Chinese on a silver platter.

Not in Europe, but try here. I think you will find that, because they do contract work for the gen brands, most of the established professional dial restoration firms will only restore a gen dial.

Looks fantastic. I applaud those of you who build these Zenith-powered 16520s, but I could never justify 1 based on build cost vs cost-of-gen. There is just not enough upside for my money .

I know some like a 62xx Daytona with a strap, but the combination always makes me wince a bit. Alot like seeing my grandfather in his underwear (he was in the hospital). Modern Daytonas can work sometimes, but I think even they work best with metal.

The bezel function is correct for a 1665 & I would get the movement serviced. Virtually every professional watchmaker can service ETAs. Just phone a few in your area & ask if they will work on reps.

Gentlemen, for the last time, let's leave ALL of the disparaging personal remarks/attacks out.

The emotion this issue has stirred up makes it clear that, contrary to what some of us thought, there remains wide & varying opinions on what defines a watch as gen or franken or rep or fake. And until we have universally accepted black & white definitions, I fear the debate will continue.

Agreed & I apologized for that near the beginning of this (over-beaten, dead horse) thread. However, referring to this as 'fake' or 'replica' demonstrates naivete (or an anti-RWG agenda)

Click me

There are other details that vary as well, which is why I have always thought that some of these cases were not what we think of as MBWs, even though they may have been described as such. I got my Watchmaster MBW 1665 in mid-06 & it came with a non-functional, etched valve. I think Nanuq has 1 that he got 2-3 years earlier that has a working valve. So the cut-off for working valves is probably 04-05?

You can call it anything you want, but I would watch the personal attacks.

Switched over to this for dinner Friday night & still wearing it after midnight (Saturday)

True. Because they do work for Rolex, they cannot convert models or repaint aftermarket dials. Though they do allow the customer some latitude with the details as long as the scope remains within the model spec. Since most vintage Rolex models were offered in white, silver or black dials, I think they just assume these are all within spec.

Which is exactly the way the watch was described towards the beginning of this thread ('my '42 is all gen except for the insert. Yes, I repainted the (gen) dial white instead of its original black, but the watch is certainly not a replica') & why I keep scratching my head over this debate Other than the documentation you receive from service, Rolex will not authenticate (certify) watches. The main reasons they no longer accept vintage watches for service is the lack of replacement parts, the liability issues that relate to servicing collectibles (they do not want to risk being held responsible for damaged/lost watches/parts) & they want to sell new watches.

Not exactly & this is 1 of those Rolex issues that does not lend itself to easy, black/white answers. Rolex generally sees service & custom dials as different animals. Service dials are made to Rolex specs (using Rolex dyes) either in-house (today) or by a select group of dial makers working under contract with Rolex (in the past). Rolex considers these genuine Rolex components (Rolex will generally accept a watch for service that contains a service dial). Custom dials are generally made using proprietary dye by unaffiliated dial refinishers or jewelers. For this reason, Rolex has, to the best of my knowledge, never accepted custom dials as genuine (Rolex will generally refuse to accept a watch for service that contains a custom dial). My dial does not really fall into either category, because it was made using Rolex dyes by a company that refinishes dials under contract with Rolex, but I requested that they reverse (customize) the colors. So the dial's designation is open to some degree of interpretation. While I believe that neither 'fake' nor 'oem' are appropriate, saying the dial is not 'genuine' is ridiculous. This is why I described the dial as a 'repainted gen dial', which is exactly what it is & why I continue to be amazed at how much (virtual) ink has been spent debating that fact.

Exactly correct. A service dial is either a new or repainted gen dial plate containing details that purposely differ from the original (so as to differentiate it from an oem dial). My gen dial plate was repainted with the original details (so as to liken it to an oem dial).

My watch has been inspected by 2 master watchmakers with Rolex accounts (1 of whom provided 1 of the 1036gmt parts). Both were surprised (jaws hit floors) when I revealed the watch's history. And this is precisely the problem. It is really only that tiny group of us who live & breath vintage Rolex who would even have the knowledge to classify such a watch as anything but gen. For watchmakers within the Rolex service network, if all the parts are genuine, the watch is deemed to be genuine.

Just my watch, or would you apply the same set of tongue-in-cheek monikers to this 1

Try this - It is a genuine 6542, but not an oem albino (or white dialed) 6542. Better?

Nicely done.

Actually, the owner is. And I do not understand why there should be any question? With the exception of the insert (it should be noted that the vast majority of 6542s referred to as 'genuine' have had their inserts replaced with service, aftermarket or 1675 replacements), every other part in that watch was made by Rolex in Switzerland. Had my dial been repainted its original black color, it would either have passed as just another '42 or referred to as a genuine 6542 with a repainted dial. However, repaint it to match a rare white variant of the GMT &, suddenly, the word 'fake' comes up. For obvious reasons, I will not reveal their ID here, but, again, the dial restorer has been doing this type of work for Rolex USA for a long time (using many of the original Rolex printing dyes). Is the repainted dial original? No. But it is not fake either. And, for the record, most of the dials referenced as 'service' dials and described (dismissively, yet properly) as 'genuine' on that same forum went through the same process my dial did. The only difference is that I had the restorer copy the color of a white dial instead of the usual black.

Ending the work week wearing my OPD

Perfectly. But my only concern was whether the word 'fake' was appropriate when referring to a repainted gen dial?

It came out of a cheap, 10+ year-old (at the time the article was written) Comex Sub, which was shown/described in 1 or more of the links within the text. I believe that model is still available today. Check our seller's listings for Comex Subs (other Sub models may contain working Hevs as well).