freddy333

The dial looks like an NDtrading aftermarket repaint (not bad, but not gen either). One of the 2 open crown tubes looks aftermarket, the other either gen or Swiss-made aftermarket (these are generally a similar quality to the gen). Obviously, the tube in the sealed Rolex pack is gen. The crowns all look like different versions of gen Triplocks (3 dots denote a Triplock). The bezel & insert look aftermarket, but it is difficult to be sure based on your photos. Others may be able to offer more info.

TeeJay -- You should consider an Invicta or any of the dozens of other Rolex look-alike brands, which are built to much higher quality standards than any commercially-made rep, give you the look and feel of a Rolex (sans the Rolex name, since that is not important to you) and all for about the same cost as a good rep. You even get a real manufacturer's warranty, which comes without any of the legal and QC hassles of a rep.

I do not have the specs on the 3135, but I am pretty sure it is the same as the 3035 12.5''', Diameter= 28.5mm, Height= 6.3mm

Thank you for the update By-Tor.

I agree, and an increasing number of the contestants in those bouts are touting reps. Definitely not recommended.

Anton -- To be clear, I still visit TZ fairly regularly (mostly the Rolex, Patek, Lange & Jaeger forums), because it is still a great resource and there are alot of nice people over there. But my interests lie more in the mechanics of watches than just the aesthetics. So I tend to spend alot more time here than there. I just get a bigger kick reading Ziggy's latest movement review/teardown or discussing the details of Alligoat's, Repaustria's, Tribal's or Ubi's (and many of the other artists here) newest mod than looking at the same recycled wristshots of the same watches over and over again on TZ. And RWG offers a more laid-back atmosphere with fewer rules and limitations, which better suits my ever-curious personality.

Yes, I know.

VK -- I must have missed something....... Did you buy Ubi's Sub? If so, congrads. And speaking of Ubi, I have not seen him for awhile. Is he quietly busy building a 3rd franken 16520?

Alli -- You may be right as far as trademark infringement goes. But there have been so many suits and counter-suits over an owner's ability to use Rolex parts in other watches (as long as the watch is not sold as being a 'genuine Rolex watch') that I guess it could go either way. I just question whether this guy is breaking any of ebay's rules since he declared, albeit in a questionable manner, that the watch consists of mostly non-Rolex ('replacement') parts. There have been so many of these types of reps for sale over the years that I am sure ebay has a set policy for dealing with them. And since the auction has not been taken down after our complaints were registered, my guess is that the seller did not break any of ebay's rules. Of course, Rolex may yet bring another suit against ebay over the matter, but those things take time and the watch may have been sold (assuming any of the bidders are real) by then.

Not so fast there, Grasshopper. Unlike the majority of those TZ'ers who criticize rep buyers, I (and a number of other RWG members) am pretty well-versed with the goings-on within the typical mechanical watch or clock movement. And while I am more than happy to admit that I DO wear a Rolex for its brand recognition and exclusivity, I do not call gen (or rep) buyers & owners degenerates. And that is both the difference & the point I was trying to make. And, for full disclosure (and fairness), I should state that I originally joined TZ in the fall of '00.

I have both, but I bow to your convictions.

If you are comparing generic pharmaceuticals to their generic counterparts, I think that case can be made, since the active ingredients and efficacy of both can be proven to be the same. But, in the case of aesthetic judgements, if a difference is perceived between brand A and brand X, then the case can be made for paying some higher price for the 'better' mousetrap. Personally, I do not like the taste of chlorine and so I am willing to pay more for bottled (or filtered) H2O, and I avoid tap like the plague. But if I was unable to tell the difference between Coke & Pepsi, I would never pay more for one over the other. In the case of gen vs rep watches, I think that if the buyer does not know the difference, he/she is something of a fool to pay more for one over the other and an even bigger fool when he/she calls all rep buyers a fool. Not sure the way I wrote that makes sense, but I think you get the point.

Welcome jsmith. As long as you understand that reps are not gens, meaning that no commercially manufactured rep will be made of exactly the same quality materials or was assembled with the same level of quality & QC as is available from gen vendors, you should be very pleasantly satisfied. And I can tell you that the reps discussed on this site are generally top quality (regardless of the marketing hype ('Swiss Grade 1', '1:1', 'perfect', etc.) you may see on many rep dealers' websites) and should last many years with proper care (and, like gens, being mechanical watches, most reps require periodic cleaning/servicing every 5-7 years). Also, most of the reps discussed here do come with a limited amount of after-sale support. So, if you receive a lemon, in most cases, you can have it put right. Just be sure to spend ALOT of time reading, reading & reading the reviews and forum postings that relate to the watches you are interested in. Knowledge is your best defense against unhappy purchasing experiences. I would also recommend that you take a couple of trips to your local Authorized Dealer (AD) and try on your target watch BEFORE making a purchase. All commercially made reps have flaws and there are usually more than one version of the same watch model (made by different factories). Each version will usually contain a different set of flaws. One version's flaws is likely to bother you more than another, and that is the way to select the best rep. But you MUST have a benchmark against which to compare each rep's flaws. And this is why it is so important to visit your AD and familiarize yourself with your favorite watch BEFORE making a purchase. This is a very enjoyable hobby, but it can also be very costly and addicting. Read, enjoy and good luck.

vbarrett -- I know what you are saying and you do make some reasonable points. However, most serious watch collectors and TZ members are like car collectors--they are not mechanics & have no real sense of what lies 'under the hood'. These people purchase more because of brand recognition and presumed exclusivity than for any real appreciation of the art of mechanical craftsmanship (even though that is often the stated reasoning behind a purchase). And although the case can be made that gens tend to contain improved and/or more finely finished movements than most of the better (often Swiss-powered) reps, I think foolishness lies more with the average gen owner who looks down at his wrist and sees what is effectively the same watch as that which resides on the rep owner's wrist. The difference is that he, the gen owner, paid many times more to get the same degree of satisfaction.

I tend to side with those who rely on reps as evaluation tools to judge their satisfaction & long-term enjoyment of a particular gen model before laying down the serious scratch required. I am not aware of any gen sellers who will allow you to test-drive a Lange 1 for a few months to see if you like it enough (and it fits within your lifestyle) to keep it. And because most people can better afford to make a few $200 mistakes than to take the hit from a few $25,000 mistakes, reps make alot of sense. As an interesting aside, TZ is frequently filled with rants suggesting that anyone buying a rep is a fool with his money because of the presumed lack of accuracy & poor overall quality of rep watches. While that may have been true years ago when the best reps were Canal Street junk, I think just the opposite is now true. I believe the true fools are those holier-than-thou blabbermouths, who literally wait for years & end up spending thousands of dollars over list (which is out-pacing even the price of gas) to purchase a stainless Rolex Daytona when you can have essentially the same thing for a mere few hundred. And even if you factor in a few mods to tidy things up a bit more, your total investment is still a relative pittance And even if the movement does die a premature death, you can buy a gaggle more & still end up way ahead, financially. But, even if none of that were true, the bottom line is this -- He (or she), who ends up with the most toys, wins.

Some people like to countersink lug holes (which is what I think you mean by 'chamfer'), but I do not think this is correct & have never done that on any of my watches. Just drill & buff, that is all

Actually, he is not really breaking any ebay rules & has covered himself pretty well, legally speaking. In his description, everything (except the movement) is stated as being a 'replacement', so that lets him off the hook for being accused of trying to mislead or rip bidders off. Certainly, many bidders will assume (out of ignorance or greed) that replacement means genuine Rolex replacement, which is obviously what he is banking on. But the only real problem he could run into is if the watch is found to contain something other than a Rolex 1575 calibre. But I doubt that ebay will check. And because of all the recent media publicity about the collectability & exclusivity of vintage Rolexes, there are alot of nouveau riche entering the market with more money than sense and such a bidder may toss his new trophy onto his wrist before getting it appraised.

If it is an MBW case, it is not the correct one for that model. The profile is too narrow & too pointy for a 'dweller. It looks more like a generic rep Sub case than an MBW. That along with the NDtrading dial, off-center date & the ubiquitous rep Triplock crown should be immediate, dead give-aways.

Another problem with gold reps is that when you scratch the gold, the underlying (non-gold) substrate is revealed and the jig, as they say, is up. And polished gold is a scratch magnet, so the watch's lifespan is limited from the get-go.

They used to use the old 'shipping guy found it in a drawer' story on me every time they failed to ship my order or lost the item I returned to them (because it was either damaged or did not match their description). Some things never change. Of the 3 items I purchased from Ali, 1 was defective and replaced with an even more defective replacement (at my cost for shipping) and neither of the other 2 matched the descriptions he provided. I looked up 'crook' in the dictionary, and the entry said 'See Ali'.

Alli, you ain't kidding!! It is up to $13,6k now and climbing. Not only is this clown ripping bidders off, but he is doing it with a very mediocre franken. Most of our stuff at least looks like the real thing... _________ UPDATE: I misread the dollar amount (the conversion rate comes to $13.6k in Australian dollars). Still, I can see why people have bid on this thing. He has an extensive sales history. Only trouble is that the previous sales are not watch-related (mostly batteries). Caveat Emptor!!

The springbars & springbar holes (in the side of the lugs) of rep watches are usually smaller than their gen counterparts. The difference in springbar holes makes it relatively easy to spot a rep Sub or Seadweller from several feet away. If you enlarge the holes and replace the narrow rep springbars with gens (or properly sized aftermarket springbars), your rep will be one step closer to looking like a gen.

In many cases, hands can be made to fit by enlarging the opening (using a set of broaches) or reducing the opening (gently squeezing the hand's opening together with jewelers pliers).

The original post referenced the (true) story about a man who was fined a large amount because he was caught bringing a bag of "obviously cheap and fake looking" counterfeit Rolexes into the US (he was fined for the total retail value of the gen counterparts of the 'fakes' he was smuggling), supposedly for his kids or relatives. I have never heard of anyone being stopped or questioned because they were wearing a reasonable-looking rep watch. As far as carrying a couple 'extras' in your baggage, I think that depends on how they are carried and whether you look like a person of means on a business trip or a tourist who looks like he/she is trying to smuggle a bag of "obviously cheap and fake looking" counterfeit watches into the country. Use your head and you should not have a problem.

If you buy a watch to keep, it is generally best to avoid gold reps since the 'plating' is thin (no matter what marketing hype the seller uses to try to convince you otherwise) and usually wears off before the watch requires normal servicing. Sometimes it lasts for a couple years and sometimes it lasts a couple of weeks. It depends on the quality of gold, how well the plating was applied & how often you wear the watch (the oil in your skin slowly deteriorates the plating).