panerai153

Funny you should say that as that was EXACTLY what was going through my mind when I backed down that boat ramp!! I did remember to lock the hubs in before I started down.

That is a beautiful watch!! :thumbsupsmileyanim: And what really makes it so wonderful is the story behind it. It's so nice to own one of those old vintages that have a story. That's the part that money can't buy. Can relate to your Rover love.Iin 1992 my late wife and I drove our Series IIA from Mississippi to Halifax NS (no I Didn't get to see Ziggy!!) to join a group of other Rover nuts from the East coast and Europe. We drove across the Trans Canada, up the Alcan and finished the trip in Anchorage a little over a month later. Camped out all but two nights. Here is a photo from and Article I did for Land Rover magazine. Didn't mean to hijack your thread, but I thought you all would be interested in what sort of vehicle Nanug drives. It ain't for the faint of heart!! Nanug, I love your watch. When folks talk about grails, that is mine. Especially one with a real history. The watch is certainly worth a lot, but the history behind it is priceless.

If you have never done business with him, I understand that you will have to be recommended by one of the members who have established a watch repair/modding relationship with him. I'm not exactly sure how this works, but I would guess you need to contact someone here that you know,and who knows you. They would contact The Zeigmeister who would then authorize them to give you his contact info, or perhaps he would contact you. He is very good, very busy, and I believe that this policy has been precipitated by a lot of "time wasters" who used up lots of his time and then didn't ever pursue sending in a watch to him.

I have the same problem.I almost cannot abide one that has no lume. I have a wonderful genuine 16750 GMT, but the lume is gone. I am thinking seriously about sending it up to Ziggy to have the dial relumed. That will probabbly destroy the value of the watch, but I'm not planning on selling it. All of my vintage builds, my 1680 and 1665 DRSD have Ziggy's vintage lume and they are great.

J that's a great build. I LOVE GMT's . I think that thye are probably the most underrated of all the Rolex sport models. Yet they really have the most utility, as you have the 2nd TZ capability. With the thin case, they wear so well, mine absolutely becomes "invisible" onm my wrist. Wondering is this one of TJ's with the 2893-2 movement?

Beautiful watch and a great job finding all those part!!

I absolutely agree with Ronin. Summer is for outside and doing things that you can't do in the winter. Even if it's miserably hot here, I just want to be outdoors. Most of us are forced inside in the winter with the cold, rain,snow and short days. Inside projects are much more appealing then. I know how you feel, my interests in my hobbies wax and wane.I get pretty excited about watches, and then after a while, it’s just not asinteresting. Unfortunately, I don’t have the skills that some of you maestroshave when it comes to tearing a watch down and repairing, replacing, altering,etc. Heck, I couldn’t even get the bezel assembly back on my Tudor 9411/0,remember!! I believe that these peaks and valleys affect most everyone, unlessyou are just one of those rare folks that become obsessed with something to thepoint that it occupies every bit of your time. I don’t think that extreme isparticularly healthy either. I visit a fair number of watch websites, and I have found that over the past couple of months, the number of visitors are less and the posting rate is way down. I would guess that most folks are doing something more fun at the moment. Take a little break, plan another project. I think the 6542would be a wonderful project. Heck, you can build one for Me!! :thumbsupsmileyanim:

I have to agree with the folks above. modern Rolex watches that could be frankened easily are relatively plentiful and compared to vintage they are reasonably priced. I recently spent over 3k on a 1665 DRSD with everything genuine except the dial and case. And that was starting with a base watch with a genuine T-39 superdome for 150.00 USD. IF you use the rule of 20, that is don't spend more than 20 % of the cost of a new watch to build a franken. Can't be done with the modern watches. If you consider that a good late sub 16610 from say late 1990's to 2005-06 can be had for around 3500-4000 USD, you can only afford to spend around 600-800 USD on the comperable replica watch plus modding. Thta won't get you too far, possibly a genuine insert, crown tube and a movement service. The Breitling folks can get parts pretty easily from what it sounds like. Rolex on the other hand guards their parts like a mother Grizzly guarding her cubs. Parts replaced are never returned to the owner (At least here in the USA) and guys with parts accounts are under constant pressure and scrutiny by Rolex. If a watchmaker got caught selling parts to folks to build frankens, I'm sure he would never get a new part from Rolex ever again. So because of this, parts especially new parts are very, very difficult to source, and very expensive. I tried about a year ago to get a genuine crystal for my GMT IIC, I asked everyone I knew if they could possibly source one, the answer from them all was "sorry, Rolex wants us to send the watch to a RSC for replacement of the crystal, they aren't available". Unfortunately, you reside in the land of the WIS. Most of us don't. You would be best served by wearing watches that are believable, genuine Rolex subs, as well as other genuine watches that fit into your job/price range. You will never get called out by your bosses if you're wearing a genuine watch! If I were to do a franken, it would probably be something like a nice datejust with lots of genuine parts, or a 1680 Sub (White) Either of those could be done well and be very believable.

Not sure who you might ask. Two of the most prominent watchmakers on the forum will not test for water resistance. I would expect that one reason is the liability. If say your watch passes a 3 atmosphere pressure test, and you decide to take it diving to 100 feet and it fails, You are going to blame the tester. also it may be water resistant now, but after wearing it every day for a year, you take it underwater and it floods, it may be that something has happened to a seal or gasket and it's now compromised. Another factor, I would suspect every old vntage genuine superdome. Go over to the Vintage Rolex forum and read what some of those guys have experienced with vintage plexies. As plexiglass ages, it gets more brittle and develops hairline cracks. Just the physical act of pressing the crystal in could open up enough cracks to make it leak. I have a vintage T-39 on my 1665, and I keep it out of water, although it has passed a 3 ATM pressure test.

Thanks for the advice guys. I tried that trick, didn't work, the retaining gasket ring is just too tight,or the crystal is a real press fit!! AlI I managed to do was bugger up one spot on the nylon ring, so I will need someone with more expertise and probably a crystal press to get this one back together as well as a new nylon gasket. I guess I will contact one of the watch makers on the forum and send it off to them. I suppose while I'm at it, i could get them to exchange the cyclops for one with AR coating. I've had one of those for quite a while, but just didn't feel like sending the watch off, but now it looks like I'm going to have to anyway Thanks again for the help..

Your correct, I found it on my desk behind something. Only problem, I don't have the tools to press the crystal back in.I don't want to take a chance and have something slip and mangle the dial/hands. I will we more than happy to pay someone to get it back together. I know the professional watchmakers here can all do it, but most of them are backlogged, and it will take all summer to get it done and back.

Need some help. My GMT IIC crystal popped out, I was polishing it, and it slipped out my hand and landed on my desk, darn crystal popped right out. I cannot see anything that holds it in place. , i can drop it right back in , but it just sits there, and will rotate when you turn the bezel, then if you turn the watch over, it drops out. I was under the impression that they had a plastic retention gasket, and the crystal was pressed in place. Can any of you folks who are handy help me out. I wear the watch, and it is otherwise fine. thanks very much

Unfortunately, I'm afraid that used prices are pretty much linear to new prices. This has been the case with Rolex for many years. There are as automatico said going to be exceptions to the general rule. Here in the USA for same reason Rolex is a source of fast cash when the owner gets in a bind. Back in the mid eighties when oil took a huge plunge and the "oil belt was devestated, there were so many 18k Rolex "Presidents" floating around for sale, the prices went down to almost scrap gold prices. After the "Dot Com" bust in 2000, same thing, guys unloaded high end watches by the ton! Under the usual circumstances, prices tend to rise with the new prices. I believe that your best bet is trying to find one here in the USA and maybe getting someone who you know and trust, or yourself, bring it back to Germany on your wrist.If that isn't feasible, I would look through the classified advertisements in your city or surrounding cities, and possibly pick up one that way. i really don't believe that prices are going to suddenly fall through the floor, unless we have a tremendous economic crisis that would impact everyone. Another thing, with the Euro as strong as it is against the dollar, you could make a better deal in the USA, converting euros to dollars and buying with cheap dollars.

Ziggy works on reps as well as genuine watches. He did movement services on several of my vintage Doxa 300T's and has worked on many of my reps His vintage relumes are the best I have ever seen. :thumbsupsmileyanim: I wouldn't use anyone else! I will say this, he is very busy, he schedules in watches, and he expects you to uphold your end, which means if you waste his time, and then don't send you watch when he tells you he has a slot available, you probably will not get a second chance!

I tend to side with thiose who say sell off those you don't wear. i have been through this cycle several times over the years. I set a limit of say 10 watches, and then all of a sudden I have 14-15. I have several genuine Rolexes, and they could probably be sold for at least what I paid for them, which isn't the case with reps, especially those super frankens that end up costing you 1.5 to 2 X what you budgeted. I have several nice replicas in my watchbox right now that never see any wrist time. Most of those are reps with a minimum of mods, movement service, relume, possibly a better crystal, etc.. Unfortunately, those will probably bring half what I have invested in them. They may end up in the sales forum some day. Right now my watch buying is pretty much on hold, since I just made the final payment on a MKII Kingston and ordered a new Ocean 7 LM5 which is a homage to the Blancpain Fifty fathoms. I probably wear my genuine Rolex 16610 about 75% of the time and the other 25% is spread over 4-5 others. If I saw something I really wanted in a genuine watch, I would not hesitate to get rid of several of the low end reps to fund the new genuine. As someone above posted, you can save the genuines for your kids, but I'm not sure about passing on the reps.Another thing, if you get in a bind financially, you can get rid of the genuines pretty easily, but if you have a "super franken 1665 that cost you 3k to put together, good luck trying to get rid of it quickly. With your genuine watches, you have a lot of avenues for sales, such as Ebay, genuine sales forums, Craigs list, etc. With reps, you are pretty much limited to selling on about 3 rep forums that all combined probably have a pretty limited number of folks looking to buy high end reps. So long story short, buy the genuine Rolex, it might never appreciate like a 6538 or 6542, but it will at least hold it's value, provided you keep it in nice condition.

That seems just a little high, however it is in immaculate condition, with all the paperwork, which certainly stands for something. Does it have a recent service? Being from 2003, it's 8 years young, but you would be looking at a service sometimes in the near future. With no service, I would ask for a discount based on that. Probably around 500 USD would be my starting point for the discount. If you can get this one for around 4500-4600, I would jump on it. I recently bought a "P" serial (2000) with no papers, box, accessories, and owner said it had been serviced, but no paperwork to substantiate. I paid 3250 USD for it, So i don't think it would be too much of a stretch to have a 3 year later model with everything sell for 1200-1300 USD more

First off, I believe that since you have narrowed down your choices to vintage subs, you have to ask yourself a few more questions. 1. Most important, how much do I want to spend? You can spend anywhere from 150.00 USD for a nice out the box replica or you can spend 3000.00 USD building a 99.9% accurate franken with everything genuine except the case. 2. Do you want a date or no date Submariner? 3. Use the search function to help you answer the questions you might have. There have been tons of really good in depth posts about every model sub, from every seller, as well as all of the various "franken" builds. 4. In your post you stated "Out of the Box" Unfortunately, in my opinion, none of the present day "vintage" subs are correct "out of the box" The old MBW's were pretty close, but nothing around that doesn't have flaws. Here are two photos of Rolex 1680 vintage submariners. The first is a MBW 1680 with the old school case, genuine crown,tube and a slow beat 2846 movement inside (this movement "ticks" at approximately the same rate as the genuine movement) Case guards have been trimmed and the dial has been relumed with vintage lume. The second watch is a more recent version of the 1680 "Red" Submariner. I bought it used, and can't remember what it cost. As far as I know, nothing has been done to it. It came with a slow beat 2846 movement. It has a crown that's too big and the crystal, retaining ring assembly is not like the genuine. you can use some genuine parts with this one, but not everything fits together like the MBW. MBW 1680 PT 1680 "Red" Sub

I would definitely start with the 1665. That PT crown is a standout flaw. Very nice watch that would be much nicer with a genuine crown. If you are patient, you can get some fairly reasonable deals on genuine crowns both here and on the vintage Rolex market.

Long gone!! And and even longer story. They are great watches, probably the closest to genuine around. He seemed to be doing pretty well, always behind schedule, but delivering in the end, until he undertook the 16600 Sea Dweller project a couple of years ago. One delay after another, deadlines constantly pushed back, and finally, his website was down, reemerged as a generic wwebsite with no ordering, no updates and then disappeared. No one knows for sure, or at least if they know, they aren't telling, but long story short WM9 (George) disappeared with a lot of folks money. Some only had a small nominal deposit, but others had paid in full.All in all a very eye opening experience for quite a lot of us. As slick said, if you want one, they come up on the sales forum every now and then. They usually command a premium and don't generally hang around long.

I don't know about the TW 16610, although i believe BK said it would accept genuine parts. I do know that the 16610/ 16800 bezels are not interchangable with 16660 /16600 Sea Dwellers. According to BK, The TW sub accepts genuine parts and has the same construction as genuine. Here is a link to his TW sub page. TW Sub

I think that one thing that is feasible is, before you do a trade or buy from someone who is unknown to you, ask him/her for references. Who has he done business with before on the forum. Also wouldn't hurt to post a thread " Has anyone done business with member XXX"? I realize that sometimes we get caught up in a deal and we suffer "temporary insanity". We are so eager to be first in line that we don't stop and think. When we throw caution to the wind, we are setting ourselves up for a scam. Every genuine deal I have made on WUS, TZ and other genuine sales forums was preceded by and exchange of references. Also most folks will request that if you are happy with the deal, would you leave a "Good Guy" feedback on the forum. I have actually had email request for references from buyers inquiring about a watch I sold or bought a couple of years back. They are looking at doing a deal with the party I dealt with and they want to know if my deal with him went OK. Certainly could happen anywhere, but there was a fellow from Mexico around a year ago that came on the forum, made a couple of legit deals, and then scammed several members out of a pretty good bit of money. He was very nice, very accommodating, and what he was doing was similar to what this guy pulled. He would inquire about a trade, and usually what he was trading seemed like a great deal, but after you sent him your watch, you got nothing in return.I'm sure some of you will remember him. I got scammed by him for some genuine parts that were supposed to be sent with a watch I traded. Learned my lesson. No deals with unknowns, no deals with folks with no or very limited numbers of posts, and even folks who have a fair number of posts, but haven't been around long, if their posts don't have any substance. You can run your post count up to several hundred over a fairly short period of time, if they are all, "Nice watch, love your strap,etc." Of course this isn't foolproof, because lots of 100% honest folks join the forum every month, but before I send them my hard earned money, I'm going to have to see some effort on their part to at least act like they are and interested, contributing member.

I think everyone is getting kicked in the teeth with the dollar weakness.I frequently visit a couple of smaller manufacturer's forums on WUS (MKII and Ocean 7). Both of the owners are raising prices, as everything is going up. Prices of cases and sapphire glass have gone up, and it looks like from what they are saying, movements are getting harder to come by and pricier. Higher grade ETA movements are pretty scarce. One of the owners said that he only had a few chronometer grade movements on hand, and doesn't have any idea when he can get more.Hard to tell whether it's just the factories decreasing production a year or so back when the economic situation was bleaker and they haven't caught up yet, or the Swatch group is really putting the screws to smaller watch manufacturers. I would suspect that it's probably a combination of both. From Swatch Group's viewpoint, they are helping their competition by selling movements, which are placed in watches that compete directly with quite a few of the Swatch Group's lower to moderate priced brands.

Freddy you are probably correct. I might be acting a little on the hasty side. Just a disappointment that it wouldn't go together after quite a bit of searching and gathering parts. I may well do what you suggested,I really like the old "big crown" watches (Rolex and Tudor) and was looking forward to having one that I could wear. I was wondering if a Yuki case could be adapted for an ETA movement, then I went to his website and saw a 6538 with a 2824 movement and their adapter ring. I would prefer to put a slow beat movement in if it could be adapted. I'll just have to see what unfolds in the next few weeks. It's getting to be summer time here, and the non-watch projects go to the front of the line.Thanks for the "kick in the rear" to get me thinking!!

That sounds like mine. It has the 5508-6538 between the lugs. originally from Mary. I'll probably just cut my losses and try to sell some of the parts that I bought for this project. I'm not keen on trying to put something together with parts that don't fit properly. I'm not criticizing anyone who glues in dials, crystals, etc. but in the genuine world, as well as better reps, it's not done, and probably because in the long term they don't hold up as well as conventional builds.

Several months ago, I decided to try to put together a 6538 with a few better aftermarket parts and a slow beat movement. I was able to find a watch on the sales forum from a fellow member. From the get go it seemed like this was a "bad luck" project. All of you guys who have undertaken mods know that some projects seem to go together really seamlessly, while others never seem to ever get off the ground. This one is one of those. First off I bought a better insert from ND trading. Ubi was kind enough to try to age it for me. Well, long story short, this one had some weird paint that started to bubble when he tried to age the insert. So right off, scratch one insert!!, then I got a crystal from Clark and a 8mm Brevet crown/tube from Natalie's Passion on Ebay. I already had a NOS 2846-2 in a donor watch, so after realizing that the insert wasn't going to work, I went ahead and sent everything up to Ziggy. I wanted to have him re lume the dial and hands, put a pearl in the old insert, replace the crown/tube and replace the crystal with one that wasn't so tall. Well, last week i got an email from him with the bad news. First off the genuine size tube is too big for the case. If you drill it out big enough to accept the tube, it will literally be drilled through the bottom edge of the mid case!!, then when he took the movement out, the crystal fell out!!. It seems that this particular case is constructed for a sapphire crystal with compression ring, and there is no way to fit an acrylic crystal, without just sitting it in a glob of glue (Not his words, but what I gathered from his description) I suppose the rep makers had some newer model cases that use sapphire crystals, and they "adapted" them to take an acrylic. After looking at my options, which are almost nil, I decided to just junk the project and save all the parts for something else. Lesson learned, when you start out with pig, no matter how much lipstick you put on her, she's still a pig.These watches are pigs. Nothing normal fits correctly. I suppose you could put all the parts back that came with the watch, maybe relume the hands/dial and a few other little "tweaks" but as far as building a really quality modded "big crown", It just ain't going to happen. So my advice to anyone who wants to build a 6538 or any other Rolex or Tudor 7922 "Big Crown", you will need to start with a better case, at least one that accepts genuine or quality aftermarket parts.Of course when you do that, you are looking at around 1k for the case, crown, insert and crystal, plus the dial and movement. Easily could go over 1.5k if you do it right, and that is figuring that you could use a spacer ring and get an ETA movement to fit. Otherwise finding a good 1030 movement, well good luck with that! One thing I've learned from this is you never stop learning from these experiences. Another thing with reps, never take anything for granted, and never,never, ever assume that just because the rep makers say it's made with a genuine watch as a model, or it's 1:1 correct, that it really is, or that parts that you think should just drop in, will actually fit at all. And in some cases, such as mine, no matter what you do, it just won't work.I'm sorry that it didn't work out, but it's no ones fault, not even those guys who built it. They didn't sell it as a "moddable "watch, so while it's design was severely compromised, without fooling with it, it probably would have lasted a while.As for me, I believe my "Big Crown" itch will be scratched by my MKII Kingston, once I get it. It's not a Rolex, but it's a really nice watch, and I know it's well put together. I hope this helps others who are contemplating one of these builds. At least it sort of lets you know where the land mines are, before you step on one.